DAC - To buy or to not buy(Confused)

@Ben10
May be you should stay away from buying a DAC unless you have a proper stereo amplifier and good speakers.
Buying a good DAC or a CD Player for connecting it to an AV receiver may not make sense as you will not be able to enjoy to its full potential with an AV receiver.

Rightly said.....

As far as I know, AVR's have their own internal DACs' so adding another external DAC may not be the right proposition. Unless, the AVR has a feature to bypass it's own DAC????

PS Audio's Digital Link III has good reviews and now has a lower price, making it a good option to consider. In the USA, you have multiple options at various price points, just "google" and you'd be surprised. Good Luck
 
blueturtle, I guess what you mean is that even if you use the analog inputs of the AVR, there would be ADC and DAC happening again making the whole purpose of the external standalone DAC moot. Is that so?
 
That's what I believe. And for this reason I have a dedicated 2.1 channel stereo set-up for me and another 7.1 channel AVR for family. Will appreciate usual input from other experts on this issue please???
 
@Ben10
May be you should stay away from buying a DAC unless you have a proper stereo amplifier and good speakers.
Buying a good DAC or a CD Player for connecting it to an AV receiver may not make sense as you will not be able to enjoy to its full potential with an AV receiver.

Rightly said.....

As far as I know, AVR's have their own internal DACs' so adding another external DAC may not be the right proposition. Unless, the AVR has a feature to bypass it's own DAC????

PS Audio's Digital Link III has good reviews and now has a lower price, making it a good option to consider. In the USA, you have multiple options at various price points, just "google" and you'd be surprised. Good Luck



Thank's for the quick reply guys, Got you point .
 
pure direct modes in avrs for analog inputs bypass the dac I assume. If you try any of those effects, it would definitely be adc/ dac.
 
pure direct normally only bipasses tone controls/equilizers

the dac will be bypassed only if he uses a digi out wont it?
 
As u guys can clearly see my set-up in my SIG, so my confusion is whether to buy DAC or not?

If yes so will it increase the sound quality? If yes so how much will it increase by using DAC?

My main source is WD TV Live only can say that I use 95-98% WD TV Live to play anything.

Thank you. :)


DAC is good but it all depends on the purpose of usage. Mid to high end usage would be recomended:)
 
I was thinking:
Analog inputs>Pre amp>Power amp>Output

Whereas,
Digital input> DAC>Pre amp> Power amp> Output

Using an external dac with AVR wouldnt do much good if it is:
Analog inputs> ADC>DAC> Pre amp>Power amp> Output


Anm, I dont think so. I think Pure direct would just bye pass the tone controls in the built in pre amp of the AVR.

Baladevan, May I ask, what is mid to hi end usage?
 
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I think there has been some confusion here about concepts of AVR, DACs, etc. Let me see if I can clarify them.

Most two channel amplifiers are analogue. They expect to be fed with only analogue signals. If you are using a digital input such as a CD, either the player or an external DAC must do the conversion.

An AVR is a different beast. Since it has to deal with multiple channels coded as Dolby, DTS etc., as well as video data, it expects to receive it's signals in digital format. Internally it decodes the data, separates the video from the audio signal, and processes each independently. The video data is sent to the TV, while the audio data is decoded, converted to analogue, amplified and sent to the speakers. Please remember there are multiple processing going on here on two major data streams - the audio stream and the video stream.

Some of the mid and high end AVRs also have what are called analogue inputs. These are 5 or 7 channels of audio signals that it receives in the analogue form, much like the two channel amp we spoke about above. When you feed an AVR with analogue signals, the DAC processing inside the AVR is skipped and the data goes directly for amplification.

When you set an AVR into Stereo or Pure Direct mode, in many cases, the data travels through a separate path inside. This path usually is shorter as compared to the path used by other audio data. In addition, more to save energy than anything else, the video circuitry and displays on the AVR are shut off. No other changes to the settings are made or needed. Not needed as the settings in any case have no effect on the data as it follows a different path. There is no processing inside other than simple amplification.

A DAC is not specific to any frequency. It converts ALL the audio digital signals it receives into analogue - it is as simple as that. And DACs can be beneficial at all budget ranges.

Cheers
 
Hi Stanley B,
From your remarks on DAC,I feel that you are well into hardware.Do you design and make DACs.Can you give me details.It will help me in rethinking in buying a branded one.
 
I was asking magma the same just bcose if he says digital input of AVR,then pure direct mode also need internal DAC & bypassing will not produce any sound.In Digital out it is possible(AVR).
 
^Yes, exactly Spiro. I have used digital input from DVD player/CD player to AVR with Pure Direct on. I think Pure direct etc have to do with pre amp tone control, but I could be wrong.
 
Pure direct definately bypass tone control,but also cut video circuitry in many AVRS.DAC has to work.Volume control of preamp certainly works. :)
 
Most AVRs have a ADC that converts the analog inputs to digital and then the digital stream is fed to the DSP chain. The DSP chain applies bass management, equalization and tone curves amongst other processing to the digital signal. This digital signal is then fed to the output dac of the AVR. From there it goes to the analog pre outs(if available) and to the amplifier.

Under these circumstances, using an external DAC with the AVR will not be a good idea. Primarily because you are going through digital to analog conversion in the DAC followed by an analogure to digital conversion in the AVR input followed by another digital to analog conversion in the AVR's output DACs. The double digital->analog->digital conversion at the input will surely introduce some degradation to the input digital signal. And the output DAC of the AVR will mean that you are effectively listening to the AVR's DAC and not really to the external DAC. This double digital conversion also means that it is best to avoid using a AVR for high quality analog sources.

Given the above circumstances, it is best to feed a digital output from your source device to the AVR. This can be over HDMI, Coax or Optical connections.

Now on some AVRs the pure direct or direct mode will bypass the input ADC & output DAC for analog inputs and pass these signals straight through. With an AVR that does this, you can look at using an external DAC to improve the sound quality.

Given that modern AVRs supporting HD audio have very good quality output DACs, I wonder if the typical external DAC will provide any improvement over the output DAC of a decent quality AVR.

My personal take is that if you are looking at getting good quality output from digital sources while using an AVR, it makes sense to spend more on a higher quality AVR than on an external DAC if you plan to play music through your AVR.

-- no1lives4ever
 
^Yes, exactly Spiro. I have used digital input from DVD player/CD player to AVR with Pure Direct on. I think Pure direct etc have to do with pre amp tone control, but I could be wrong.
Some analogue, stereo, integrated amps had (have?) a "direct" switch which cut out any tone adjustment controls. of course, many just didn't include those controls at all!
 
Most AVRs have a ADC that converts the analog inputs to digital and then the digital stream is fed to the DSP chain. The DSP chain applies bass management, equalization and tone curves amongst other processing to the digital signal. This digital signal is then fed to the output dac of the AVR. From there it goes to the analog pre outs(if available) and to the amplifier.

Even if an AVR has an ADC, I would be very annoyed if my pristine analogue signals are re-converted to digital and back to analogue. This defeats the very purpose of using an external (and better) processing for DAC and using the AVR for just pre- and power amplification. This does not make any sense to me.

In the Onkyo 875 that I have, there is a huge appreciable difference when I feed it with music through an external DAC as compared to feeding it with digital signals. I am talking about the same song and the same source.

Cheers

Cheers
 
Even if an AVR has an ADC, I would be very annoyed if my pristine analogue signals are re-converted to digital and back to analogue. This defeats the very purpose of using an external (and better) processing for DAC and using the AVR for just pre- and power amplification. This does not make any sense to me.

In the Onkyo 875 that I have, there is a huge appreciable difference when I feed it with music through an external DAC as compared to feeding it with digital signals. I am talking about the same song and the same source.

Cheers

Cheers

I find your observation puzzling. But then nothing can beat a listening test ;)

I do not know much about this particular model of AVR. But in general, if you are using any feature of the AVR like bass management, room correction or any of the stereo -> surround modes, then these functionalities are all performed by DSPs on the digital signal that is obtained by running the signal from the analog input through an ADC.

Now if you are using your AVR in a pure direct or similar mode, then I suppose your AVR will be passing the signals from the analog inputs to the amplification stage w/o a A2D conversion.

-- no1lives4ever
EDIT: A bit of googling reveals that the Onkyo 875 has a level matched analog input that basically routes the analog signals directly without analog to digital conversion. I guess I would need to know what DAC is being used here. I suppose the external DAC being used in your case is of a higher quality than the AVR's built in output DAC.
 
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