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Denon 2310 with Kef iQ7 Stereo setup issue

Audiolab 6000A Amplifier

john_k_antony

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Dear all,

I recently purchased Denon AVR 2310 and Kef iQ7 (fronts). After doing a lots of audition and striking a good deal on Kef iQ7 (old model, now its iQ70), I chose this package.

I have been using this for past 10 days. Might have run in the AMP and Speakers for around 30-40 hours so far. Not with a high volume though.

My issue is, though iQ7 has 6.5" Bass driver and 6.5" Mid range driver, the bass response is totally missing :(. I set the Denon to 'Pure Direct' mode. Now when I turn on the Sub, I get some punch but not what I wanted. The Sub I have is from my old HTIB (Onkyo HTS 320 - 8" woofer, 100W, Powered Subwoofer).

I have bi-amped the iQ7 with Denon.

My questions.

1. People who have paired Denon with Kef face similar problem? Lack of bass from just the front speakers?
2. I assume iQ7 is capable of good bass, but it is not producing any good bass because
a) it is underpowered?
b) it is not properly run-in? or some other issue.
When I auditioned them, it was sounding great with the same AMP at ProFX Bangalore. I have read in some forums that Kef require around 50-100 hrs of run-in? Do Denon AVRs also have a run-in period? I think the Amp and Speakers at ProFX demo room was really run-in.
3. Or any other "magic" settings I am missing?
4. Or do you think I should get a better Sub? I have a plan to upgrade to Polk Audio PSW 110 (200 W, 10 Front Firing Downward Ported Type, Frequency : 32Hz to 250Hz)

I have made sure all the speaker settings, cross over, speaker size eveything is set properly.

I have also done Audyssey set up. But turned it off (Dynamic EQ, Multi EQ and Dynamic Volume)after the measurements. I feel the sound gets "artificial" when I turn on the Audyssey features. 'Pure Direct' mode rocks. I am only using the distance setup done by the Audyssey.

I also noticed that while in 'Pure Direct' mode, it takes around 30 minutes before the Amp and Speakers play the music to the full potential. Do anybody else experience this? Is this again some thing to do with lack of run-in?

I would really appreciate any valuable comments on this topic.

Thanks,
John.
 
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venkatcr

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Yesterday I was fooling around with a Denon 2310 connected to EPOS M12i, ELS 3C, QA 1010i for the back, and EPOS ELS Sub. I can assure you at first connect, the bass was strong enough to rattle all the glasses.

As Cranky says, check the connections and the crossover setting once again. I am sure you would have done it but I would also advise the usual steps

Check DVD Player is set to bitstream
Check Sub is 'ON' in the AVR
Check crossover setting in sub is set properly
Check crossover setting in AVR is set to 80Hz (THX standard)
Check Phase is 'On'
Play with the volume control of the sub and see.

Cheers
 

arvi

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In Pure Direct mode, the speakers will be treated as Large, regardless of what you setup in the Denon menu.

I found Batpig's guide very useful when setting up my Denon receiver.

See the section titled "IF YOU ARE RECEIVING A TWO-CHANNEL SOURCE:" in the FADQ . There's lots of useful info in the FADQ about Pure Direct vs Stereo etc.
 

arvi

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I don't think your sub-woofer is the problem. In Pure Direct mode, any bass from the sub is double bass as the FADQ describes.
 

john_k_antony

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In Pure Direct mode, the speakers will be treated as Large, regardless of what you setup in the Denon menu.

I found Batpig's guide very useful when setting up my Denon receiver.

See the section titled "IF YOU ARE RECEIVING A TWO-CHANNEL SOURCE:" in the FADQ . There's lots of useful info in the FADQ about Pure Direct vs Stereo etc.
Hey Arvi,

Thanks for the info. I just got the batpig FAQ. I am going to play around with it tonite and let you know the results.

Thanks,
John.
 

john_k_antony

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Yesterday I was fooling around with a Denon 2310 connected to EPOS M12i, ELS 3C, QA 1010i for the back, and EPOS ELS Sub. I can assure you at first connect, the bass was strong enough to rattle all the glasses.

As Cranky says, check the connections and the crossover setting once again. I am sure you would have done it but I would also advise the usual steps

Check DVD Player is set to bitstream
Check Sub is 'ON' in the AVR
Check crossover setting in sub is set properly
Check crossover setting in AVR is set to 80Hz (THX standard)
Check Phase is 'On'
Play with the volume control of the sub and see.

Cheers
Hey Venkat,

Thank you very much for the details.

I am not sure about the DVD settings. I will check this up tonite.

The SUB is 'ON' in the AVR and my Sub is producing sound. But you know, not enough :). As I mentioned earlier, I was expecting iQ7 to pump out some bass as well. This seems to be completely missing.

I have manully set the crossover to 80Hz. Though the Audyssey set it to 40Hz.

Check Phase is 'On'
Where do I set the Phase to 'On' ?

Thanks,
John.
 

arvi

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I assume venkatcr is referring to the Phase control switch/knob on your sub-woofer.(Many subs have controls to set the Phase and Crossover.)
 

john_k_antony

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I have just done the following settings and getting some decent bass

1. Turned on Audyssey Multi EQ and Dynamic EQ
Multi EQ set to Audyssey
Dynamic EQ set to On and Ref Level set to 10db
2. Set all the speakers to "Small". Now my Sub is producing some punch :)
3. I had to set the listening mode to "Stereo" from "Pure Direct". I had to do this because the Amp will default the front speakers to "Large" if I set Pure Direct. So my manual bass management settings wont be effective.
4. I set the cross over frequency for all channels to 80Hz
5. I set the LPE for LFE to 120Hz
6. Left the speaker distance measurements and speaker levels to what Audyssey auto setup computed.

After all this settings, I do get better bass. But I do feel the over all sound output has some artificial effects. But I think I can live with it as I got some bass I wanted ;).

Now my fronts are working on the music details (highs and mids) and Sub is doing the work of pumping out all the lows. I think I am fine with the overall sound now.

BTW, I havent tried a DTS/Dobly movie with this setting. Will try it tomorrow as it too late and dont want to disturb my neighbors :D

Again thanks all for the valuable suggestions.
 

john_k_antony

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Hi All,

I just found out some thing surprising. Please take a look at this and let me know your comments.

I just looked at my bi amping connections. It was connected like this

Amp Front L -> Front Speaker HF L
Amp Front R -> Front Speaker HF R

Amp Surr Back L -> Front Speaker LF L
Amp Surr Right R -> Front Speaker LF R

With this setting I was getting poor bass and brighter sound from the front speakers. I read the Kef manuals and some forums and kinda found out that these connections should be reversed. Now I changed this to

Amp Front L -> Front Speaker LF L
Amp Front R -> Front Speaker LF R

Amp Surr Back L -> Front Speaker HF L
Amp Surr Right R -> Front Speaker HF R

I turned on the system and to my surprise, the treble has reduced, the bass has improved and sound became more balanced. Now I am getting a more cleaner and balanced sound. It is really a noticable difference. Now even the pure direct mode gets good bass with the Subs on. The treble seem to have reduced and became more sweeter. Earlier I was feeling the sound was kinda artificial becoz of high treble. It was sounding slightly harsh in the stereo mode before. But now it seems to be more balanced in the stereo mode.

I also changed my front speakers to "Large" from "Small". Still I am getting good bass with the Sub. Before the bi amp connection change, I had to set the front speakers to "Small" to get good bass from the Sub.

Do you guys think that chaging the bi amp connections makes such a difference or there is something wrong somewhere??

Thanks,
John.
 
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manu4panjab

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I have just done the following settings and getting some decent bass

1. Turned on Audyssey Multi EQ and Dynamic EQ
Multi EQ set to Audyssey
Dynamic EQ set to On and Ref Level set to 10db
2. Set all the speakers to "Small". Now my Sub is producing some punch :)
3. I had to set the listening mode to "Stereo" from "Pure Direct". I had to do this because the Amp will default the front speakers to "Large" if I set Pure Direct. So my manual bass management settings wont be effective.
4. I set the cross over frequency for all channels to 80Hz
5. I set the LPE for LFE to 120Hz
6. Left the speaker distance measurements and speaker levels to what Audyssey auto setup computed.

After all this settings, I do get better bass. But I do feel the over all sound output has some artificial effects. But I think I can live with it as I got some bass I wanted ;).

Now my fronts are working on the music details (highs and mids) and Sub is doing the work of pumping out all the lows. I think I am fine with the overall sound now.

BTW, I havent tried a DTS/Dobly movie with this setting. Will try it tomorrow as it too late and dont want to disturb my neighbors :D

Again thanks all for the valuable suggestions.
you must also set lpf of lfe to 80hz
 

manu4panjab

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Hi All,

I just found out some thing surprising. Please take a look at this and let me know your comments.

I just looked at my bi amping connections. It was connected like this

Amp Front L -> Front Speaker HF L
Amp Front R -> Front Speaker HF R

Amp Surr Back L -> Front Speaker LF L
Amp Surr Right R -> Front Speaker LF R

With this setting I was getting poor bass and brighter sound from the front speakers. I read the Kef manuals and some forums and kinda found out that these connections should be reversed. Now I changed this to

Amp Front L -> Front Speaker LF L
Amp Front R -> Front Speaker LF R

Amp Surr Back L -> Front Speaker HF L
Amp Surr Right R -> Front Speaker HF R

I turned on the system and to my surprise, the treble has reduced, the bass has improved and sound became more balanced. Now I am getting a more cleaner and balanced sound. It is really a noticable difference. Now even the pure direct mode gets good bass with the Subs on. The treble seem to have reduced and became more sweeter. Earlier I was feeling the sound was kinda artificial becoz of high treble. It was sounding slightly harsh in the stereo mode before. But now it seems to be more balanced in the stereo mode.

I also changed my front speakers to "Large" from "Small". Still I am getting good bass with the Sub. Before the bi amp connection change, I had to set the front speakers to "Small" to get good bass from the Sub.

Do you guys think that chaging the bi amp connections makes such a difference or there is something wrong somewhere??

Thanks,
John.
never set fronts or any other speakers large even if they are large unless they produce low frequency below 20 hz

and when you choose all the speakers or even fronts to large you get uneven bass

just my thought :rolleyes:
 

ksk469

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I definitely hope that you have removed the jumpers connecting HF and LF posts while biamping??

As already suggested , I would also recommend to try single wiring( to respective LF posts) instead of biamping .

Also with bass management you can alway send bass to both SUB as well as front speakers set large.
 

john_k_antony

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I have removed the jumpers.

But you guys really think that difference I felt by changing the connections is fine or something is wrong ?? I am really curious to know :)
 

venkatcr

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In bi-amping using an AVR, the front amps are always connected to the LF binding posts of the speakers, and the Rear amps to the HF binding posts. You have now connected it properly. The amps designated for the front carry full frequency range, while the amps designated for the Rear Speakers carry something like 2000Hz and above.

Cheers
 

john_k_antony

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In bi-amping using an AVR, the front amps are always connected to the LF binding posts of the speakers, and the Rear amps to the HF binding posts. You have now connected it properly. The amps designated for the front carry full frequency range, while the amps designated for the Rear Speakers carry something like 2000Hz and above.

Cheers
Hey Venkat,

Your reply makes a lots of sense. Thank you very much :)
 

aneelr

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hey john,

i've a small question (not regarding ur problem, but...)....can u let me know for how much did u pick up the amp for......cause i'm also planning to pickup the same amp(speakers not yet decided......still demoing a lot of them.). I had been to profx lastweek and demoed the KEF, PolkAudio and Focal Chorus with the Denon AVR2310.....he qouted Rs.62,000/- and gave a 10% disc. at Rs.55,400/- and also told that will get a total of 15% disc in the AV expo in dec. And did u enquire the rates with any other dealers. And also how much did u pay for the KEF.


thanks.
Aneel.
 

prash2k01

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hi aneel
Price break up is already there on another thread by john
 
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manu4panjab

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I have read in many forums that LPF should be set to 120Hz and not 80. They say for most of the home setup, LPF of 120Hz and Crossover of 80Hz is a good value.
but at 120 hz bass is more directional and i can create more load on avr

so by choosing everything to 80hz load is reduce and therefore much less distortion and there is no hole in between subwoofer and all other speakers
 
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