Denon AVR aka piece of crap

[ghatgepatil]

Check the Pioneer AVRs too. Never heard any misgivings about them as yet, even if their usage numbers may be less to Denon and Marantz.

 

[Vinod.R]

I personally think it has nothing again to do with Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha or any other AVR.

It has to do with getting a lottery on a good unit or a bad one:

1) The model we select has to be a reasonable well designed and engineered one (But we never know that until the model becomes old, for then only we come to know of its pros and cons thru actual world usage).

2) The particular unit that we buy in this model range has to be a non problematic one, meaning the model may be good, but our unit may be a defective piece from day one . They say factory certified etc, then how come so many customers receive lemons?

3) Since we all have the upgraditis bug to buy the latest and best, there is no way of knowing how this unit will perform in real world conditions (Read Indian conditions of power supply, transportation, misuse by salesmen (who may palm off a demo piece to you etc. and also getting a less featured or less engineered product, for after all India is a third world country whose consumers pay first world prices for third rate products , Panasonic being the major criminal in this aspect according to me. So for example in the USA, you will get a ZT60 but in India it is difficult for a paying customer to get even an S60 even after making an advance payment!

SO SOMETIMES I FEEL IT IS BETTER TO WAIT, SEE THE REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE OF A MODEL, THEN BUY LATER OLD STOCKS OR EVEN BUY SECOND HAND FROM TRUSTED SOURCES. THE REASON IS THAT PRICES ARE BOUND TO BE LESS, AS IT HAS BECOME AN OLD MODEL, AND THERE IS MORE LEVERAGE TO BARGAIN THE PRICE AND REDUCE THE RISK LOAD.THE DISADVANTAGE BEING THAT WE MAY NOT GET THE MODEL WE WANT AT ALL!!!

 

[Santy]

If more and more people are being unlucky with their lottery of a specific brand or model, then it does denote a problem.

There could be defective pieces rolled out by almost every company; what matters is the %.
Is it 1% or 0.1% or 0.01% or 0.001% or lesser....

A problem could be because of two primary reasons: inherent design flaw (or) sub-standard components used.

Neither of it necessary mean that 'all' units would run into problems, but just that the failure rate could be high.
Not every problem could be detected at QC stage. If it can be, then there wouldn't be a need for service centres.

 

[Vinod.R]

If more and more people are being unlucky with their lottery of a specific brand or model, then it does denote a problem.

There could be defective pieces rolled out by almost every company; what matters is the %.
Is it 1% or 0.1% or 0.01% or 0.001% or lesser....

A problem could be because of two primary reasons: inherent design flaw (or) sub-standard components used.

Neither of it necessary mean that 'all' units would run into problems, but just that the failure rate could be high.
Not every problem could be detected at QC stage. If it can be, then there wouldn't be a need for service centres.

Quite right Santy.

But as a paying customer (Like Baiju here), why does he have to suffer for their lack of quality control, substandard components, inherent design flaw etc? He has paid the full price expected from him, did he not?

What if he had paid fake notes ? Could he say that the it was not detected at the QC stage etc? Which means the onus is on the company to resolve the issue completely the moment they know the unit is problematic by replacing or offering some other equitable solution to the customer, it helps retain brand loyalty and would not build up bad publicity for Denon would it not?

Just thought that I would ask what you think about it?

PS: Another thought, should Baiju take it up with Denon Japan higher up and would that help in any way?

 

[aneelr]

I've also heard a lot of my friends complaining about their Denon's. But on the contrary I also use Denon (2310) purchased in 2009, and have used it like crazy, like watched more than 1000 movie using it and till now it's working like a charm and I really like the product, and my next upgrade will also be a Denon. But I guess with most the electronic items, it's only our luck, for instance my LED TV gave up after 4 1/2 yrs. and the same TV for my friend bought at the same time is still working.




cheers.

 

[Santy]

Which means the onus is on the company to resolve the issue completely the moment they know the unit is problematic by replacing or offering some other equitable solution to the customer, it helps retain brand loyalty and would not build up bad publicity for Denon would it not?

Exactly my thoughts too. If cars can be recalled on a generic failure, why not expensive audio/ video equipment. Though I understand mostly safety related issues result in recalls in auto industry.

 

[baijuxavior]

I wish to consider it as my bad luck, but even my friend (FM Manu George) who is also using Denon 1612 is facing the same problem. At first it was the red flashing light problem and yesterday he told me the audio stopped during working. He bought it from amazon.de last year so no warranty. Two AVRs of the same model going wrong with the same symptoms cannot be considered as mere coincidental issue or bad luck. I even remember a US member posting about hissing sound through the speakers of his Denon 1612 in this forum itself.

 

[[email protected]]

Baiju,

Again, i am using 1612 for the past 1 year and never faced a problem. I believe it has everything to do with power supply and its horrible in kerala. Pls try below stuffs and see does it make a difference or not.

1) Check your home electrical system (especially the circuits from where you avr draws power)& cross check for proper grounding by a licensed electrician (not the flyboy as the dont have proper know how)
2) Use a surge protector (like belkin) along with voltage conditioner (no stabilizers pls)
3) Check earthing & static electricity from your TV and PC (inputs) as in the past, i have seen around 12 tv blown away due to malfunction tv in a single cable line.They are the biggest culprits in power surge backfire
4)Take a pure copper wire & connect it to the screw behind avr & connect the same to a steel pipe or proper conductor to ground.
5) Check the crossover/driver of your speaker as a damaged capacitor also may backfire avr
6) Pls check the power supply unit of you avr for any fault (especially resistor & transfo)
7) De humidise your room & ensure proper air supply

All your avr complaints are clear evidence of power abuse, pls forgive me if i said something wrong.

 

[baijuxavior]

I am using Emerson Liebert online sinewave UPS. There is no earth problem. How can you explain sound not coming through the speakers is related to power? The sound stopped all of a sudden during a movie. I experienced the same problem when I started this thread. I cleaned the hdmi board and it started functioning that time and worked for almost three months without any problem. I am quite sure the hdmi board is malfunctioning. All functions like HDMI passthrough, hdmi input switching, GUI are working, but no audio, just some hissing and popping sound. I tried with only one speaker connected and the same problem. If it is a problem with hdmi board then it is better to buy a new AVR because hdmi board replacement will cost around 10K.

 

[[email protected]]

Atlast, the culprit is kicked out.. "The UPS". I dint made a specific comment on HDMI, instead wrong power supply may lead to multiple parts failure. HDMI being very sensitive, it would've affected first. If you check your avr package, it is clearly mentioned that warranty void if used in UPS power. If you carefully read my comment, i had also mentioned to check internal power circuit of avr. Now your HDMI board would have partially damaged due to the above said reasons.

The above comments was based on my past experience as way back in 90's, i used to make mosphet amplifiers & speaker boxes with proper crossovers and now theses are known as DIY. Now i'm out of touch, forgive me if i said something wrong.

 

[baijuxavior]

The problem started even before I used the UPS. I bought the UPS only a couple of months ago and the problem started within three months I purchased the AVR in 2011. The manual says UPS should not be used, but there is no harm in using a sinewave UPS in my opinion. I tried connecting to line directly and there is no earth leakage, even when connected to all other devices. The AVR uses two pin power cord and there is no provision for an earth connection.

 

[humveeguy]

Talked to profx dealer and they say, not aware of huge issue wrt to HDMI boards on Denon. They say there are no issues reported on 2013 models and recommended the new x1000, x2000 etc. Wondering how far it is true.

hg

 

[netant]

They say there are no issues reported on 2013 models and recommended the new x1000, x2000 etc. Wondering how far it is true.

yes, these are very new line-ups need some time to hears something bad about them , as majority of the proud owners will praise them (touchwood)

 

[az2325]

Denon HDMI issues and cost of Servicing

Hi all,

I seriously doubt this issue is due to sine wave ups baiju is having.

I had shared a similar experience of mine in this thread itself.

The culprits here could be--, in the order of probability.

1. The power handling system of Denon is delicate. It may be not suitable to handle even minor power fluctuations escaping from ups/stabilizer. In my case, i am using a v-guard stabilizer. The quality of power distributed in Kerala is not that good.

2. Moisture or humidity in Kerala where we both reside- This was one of the suggested reasons shared by a FM in this thread. I believe it could be.

3. Denon-19** series is not having highest quality HDMI components suitable for continous usage. In my case i was playing FM daily for approximate 8 months, the trouble started showing up. I moved to a yamaha-as 500 amplifier and kept the denon avr at home town in Kottayam. Now the denon is getting used once in a month or so. Though clipping issue is not coming, there are few issues because of which Audissey is not getting completed.

The point i believe Baiju is trying to highlight is that - "Never Go For Denon If You Dont Have Authorized Service Centres Nearby". He has lost considerable money in couriering this to service centres ( i believe more or equal to repairing cost). Hearing baijus experience in servicing , i reduced usage of Denon to avoid a complete breakdown and moved to Yamaha.

Denon is a very good AVR based on my experience. I still cherish the moments -enjoying FM music in trivandrum with Denon 1911 +Bose 301. I am no where getting that quality from Yamaha- amp +Bose 301 and tuner. (May be an issue with the old BPL tuner i use). I want to have a NAD tuner but currently out of budget :sad:

Myself or Baiju may be the unlucky chaps who got an average build Denon or it may be an issue with the power or moisture in Kerala.

In any case, the advice here is - Don't invest too much of money in AVR's like these if you don't have an affordable mechanism for repairs.

Comments are most welcome.

Thanks,
Antony

 

[canchi]

My Denon 1911 had a problem with the hdmi board as well, got it replaced during warranty period and no problems thereafter.
No moisture issues here in Bangalore. As I see it, this is almost always due to electrical issues, higher peak voltage/ sudden surges fry the hdmi board - this seems to be the weakest link in the AVR.
Cheers

 

[baijuxavior]

I am not against Denon or in favour of any other brand, I just wanted to express my plight with this AVR. As Antony said above, my suggestion is to go for your choice of AVR brand ensuring that it has servicing center near by. Regarding power issue, after installing my sinewave ups, this avr never showed the tripping problem. It just stopped the audio all of a sudden last week which is the only problem now I face.

 

[bpranay]

I had considered this thing while scouting for my AVR. Hence went on and bought Yamaha as they have a wide service network.

 

[saumitra]

My Denon 1911 had a problem with the hdmi board as well, got it replaced during warranty period and no problems thereafter.
No moisture issues here in Bangalore. As I see it, this is almost always due to electrical issues, higher peak voltage/ sudden surges fry the hdmi board - this seems to be the weakest link in the AVR.
Cheers

Similar story here I bought the Denon 1911 AVR from htsore.in (Mr. Lokesh), Bangalore sometime during Aug 2011. A few days back, the HDMI output went blank. However, I am able to get the audio o/p through digital/ analog audio cables (coxial & optical connected fom STB & BDP to AVR, also RCA cables connected from BDP to AVR). So for now, I am managing with video outs from STB/BDP directly connected to the TV while the audio outs go to the AVR. I plan to give the AVR for servicing to a service center in Koramangala (Mr. Anil mobile: 9845006909) - a friend of mine got his Denon 1912 AVR serviced recently from that place. If the HDMI board, which appears to be the problem here, needs replacement and if it costs 10k, as someone mentioned, I am not sure if it would be worth spending that much money for this repair.

 

[Yairisan]

Going to buy an AVR? Think twice if you are into Denon AVRs. I will summarize my experience with Denon 1612 AVR.

I bought the avr in September 2011. Paid 27.5K. My usage is very moderate. One or two movies a week. The AVR started showing red led blinking problem within a few months. When it happens, I will turn off the avr then turn it on again and it will continue to work after a few attempts.

Somewhat in the middle of March 2012 the AVR hdmi out stopped displaying altogether. Sent the avr to KEI service center Chennai, they replaced the hdmi board and everything seemed to be working for a few months. Then it again started the dreaded red led blinking.

In December 2012, the AVR started malfunctioning again. One of the channel went kaput. You can read it here http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/32758-denon-1612-shutting-down-problem.html. Sent it to KEI and they charged me Rs.3500/- for the servicing. When I received it back in the last week of February 2013, it won't start. So I again sent it to Chennai. This part I didn't post in the above mentioned thread. In March 2013 I got it back. This time they didn't charge me for the servicing. Connected the avr to the power and same problem. This time I opened the case and removed a few cables and reinserted and it started working.

July 2013 - I was watching a movie in the night. After an hour when I felt the volume is high I pressed the volume down button and instantly there is no sound at all. All other functions were working but no volume. Resetting the microprocessor didn't help. I could hear crackling and hissing sound the speakers. Frustrated I turned off the avr. Next morning when I tested it started working again.

Today the avr again stopped audio after one hour of movie watching. I switched it off hoping the problem will be solved. When I started it again the avr started hissing and crackling. Removed the power supply, opened the case and did the cable remove-reinsert trick, but the avr now will not start. It simply flashes red light. I feel like I would throw this crap out of the window.

A few other forum members have also reported this shutting down/ no audio problem with Denon AVR.

So my advice to avr buyers is to think twice before you put your hard earned money in Denon AVR.

Had the very same model amp for 6+ yearsstill works like a champ. Denon are a great brand.

 

[ajay0722]

Its really sad to hear such things about the niche products, when we pay a premium price to the brand name itself.
however, I have another way to think. I have been using Denon (total 3 AVRs) in past 9 years. Denon 1507 then 2310CI and currently 3312 and never had a complaint. In one occasion, my 2310 had a bad channel and I had to take it to Service center and they charged me around 4k to fix it. But I wouldn't say that happened bcoz of the quality of the product or parts used or anything like that. I feel this has more to do with the environment (Operational condition, ventilation, Dust, power supply) usage (how long continuously or how loud or how frequently you plug/unplug HDMI devices making it prone to electrostatic signals etc) and handling. I am not saying that those who faced issues with these AVRs mishandled it, but just want to make a point that there could be factors which are not easily visible but can trigger the collapse....

JFYI... one of my known person, connected a 220V power-supply to a 110V Denon 2313 and he realized only after some hot burning smell came within 5 minutes, he immediately shut it down, plug it back to 110v and AVR still alive ...