DIY single driver fulll range speakers for ta2020

[Sumanta]

I will go for OB till I hear anything better than that.

 

[manuduggal]

@ kaushik

It might be a 1 day job for you but for me I will find out when I get it .

So far I have not decided on it yet .

 

[kaushik]

@manu
provided materials are in place n carpenter is ready..
excludes time spent on getting witchcraft kits to attract success

 

[alpha1]

Can we use fullrange speakers in a typical car audio system (which means no separate amp block = head unit + amp as single unit)
?

 

[jaudere]

How will you mount Full range speaker can be technically used in car with typical head unit. Hwoever I am not whether it will give good sound or no.

 

[soundnovice]

Now after getting my helder ta2020 amp ready with help from kaushik , I am looking for speakers for these.

I am interested in DIY speaker route but cannot take it the whole way and since its my first hi-fi setup . That would be too much of DIY for me at first go. It could be DIP ( Do it partially ) .

I have read about single driver full range speakers . I have not heard these speakers so far and would like if I could hear them somewhere in Bangalore .

Any place / home where I could listen to them in Bangalore ?

Also could I get some recommendations who could make these for me in Bangalore for consideration ?

I did contact sreekanth (soundsgreat) for his 2 way speaker but could not meet up with him.

i am using fostex fe126en in bk-12m back loaded horn speakers. they are great and blend well with t-amp ta2020. this amp is just enough to push the highly efficient fe126en to the limits.

 

[alpha1]

How will you mount Full range speaker can be technically used in car with typical head unit. Hwoever I am not whether it will give good sound or no.

I don't know how I will mount it and connect it.
Its just a thought that came to my mind.

Of course sourcing a full range speaker is a bigger task than everything else, I guess its more convenient to walk into a car audio shop and get the "car audio" speakers fitted.

 

[manuduggal]

hello everybody ,
Last two two and half months were very tight at office . So could not update .
This week I received my speaker driver
Madisound Speaker Store

I am planning to go for this speaker design as in ( for mark alpair 10.2)
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil-Series-set-100711.pdf


In the meanwhile I have ordered and got usb ODAC as in :
NwAvGuy: ODAC Released
I am bought it from Audio Poutine in facebook.

I am looking for a carpenter who can make the design . I will be opening another thread for this , but if any of you guys could recommend .
I am in Bangalore.

 

[fusspot]

Boy am I glad to bump into your thread. I am on a very similar boat right now. I have ordered a Topping TP20 Amp and considering a Fostex FE166En (among other things). A few quick questions:

1) What convinced you to go select a full range driver? Any auditions/experiences of the sound? Or just sheer convenience due to the lack of crossovers?

2) Why Mark Audio and the specific cabinet design? How long did it take for Madisound to deliver it at your doorstep?

3) Why and where does the MKIV Universal Pre-amp fit into the chain? Shouldn't the Tripath amp suffice?

Anyhow, really looking forward to see how your project pans out.

 

[Hari Iyer]

hello everybody ,
Last two two and half months were very tight at office . So could not update .
This week I received my speaker driver
Madisound Speaker Store

I am planning to go for this speaker design as in ( for mark alpair 10.2)
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil-Series-set-100711.pdf


In the meanwhile I have ordered and got usb ODAC as in :
NwAvGuy: ODAC Released
I am bought it from Audio Poutine in facebook.

I am looking for a carpenter who can make the design . I will be opening another thread for this , but if any of you guys could recommend .
I am in Bangalore.

I will be building my linear Transmission Line speaker using the Fostex Full-Range drive FE166en. This should be ready by the mid of October. Will post once its ready. I am expecting this to be our flagship product.

Cheers,

 

[manuduggal]

Boy am I glad to bump into your thread. I am on a very similar boat right now. I have ordered a Topping TP20 Amp and considering a Fostex FE166En (among other things). A few quick questions:

1) What convinced you to go select a full range driver? Any auditions/experiences of the sound? Or just sheer convenience due to the lack of crossovers?

2) Why Mark Audio and the specific cabinet design? How long did it take for Madisound to deliver it at your doorstep?

3) Why and where does the MKIV Universal Pre-amp fit into the chain? Shouldn't the Tripath amp suffice?

Anyhow, really looking forward to see how your project pans out.

Hi ,
1. I went for audition for KEFq300 with HFM kaushik , and really liked vocals which it produced . On discussion with kaushik , he suggested if I liked vocals/midrange better full range would suit me .
I have never heard a full range driver , so I thought i will go for it.
In the end it was my call. lets see how it comes about.

2. Mark audio because they went a bit lower than fostex in terms of frequency . whether I can notice it is a entirely different matter . may be it does not matter if I am interested in vocals more.
secondly and more importantly ( for me ) the pencil speaker enclosure design , is relatively simple . no complications of like bass reflex etc .

Somebody was coming from us , so got the drivers from them.

3. mk IV pre-amp , fits in between source and amplifier.


Let me know if you have queries . Luckily I had not paid any custome duties toward any of the products .

 

[fusspot]

I hope you find the right carpenter and the project pans out well.

And yes, I'd be the first in line to listen to your speakers, if you decide to exhibit your creation

 

[gobble]

I will be building my linear Transmission Line speaker using the Fostex Full-Range drive FE166en. This should be ready by the mid of October. Will post once its ready. I am expecting this to be our flagship product.

Cheers,

I use the fostex 166E in a bass reflex cabinet. I am curious - why are you considering these drivers only? They will not play western classical very well - a single driver will struggle to reproduce the entire frequency spectrum with a mass of instruments. Your market may thus be limited to those that prefer Indian Classical. Also I used the fostex with some average SS amps for a few years like nad 325bee and also a Gainclone. But now I feel they sing better with a tube power amp. In fact I would not recommend pairing these drivers with SS as they reveal the hardness and flaws of SS gear and cables in the chain. In fact for those that cannot hear differences in swapping cables, I would recommend they listen to cable swap experiments on a fostex driver. The one time these speakers sounded astounding with SS was with GeorgeO's Grounded Grid tube preamp in the chain. These speakers may sound their best with low damping factor amps as the lightweight cone has a tendency to sound "overdamped" with SS.

However I have to admit, if you listen to Indian classical primarily, like I do - the sound grows on you to such an extent that it is hard to like other speakers costing 3x more. Even though it may not match other speakers in low frequency punch or extend into the 30khz range, once you taste the midrange, everything else sounds not worthwhile to me atleast.

For a first time business venture perhaps you should consider a product that serves more popular tastes?

--G0bble

 

[Hari Iyer]

I use the fostex 166E in a bass reflex cabinet. I am curious - why are you considering these drivers only? They will not play western classical very well - a single driver will struggle to reproduce the entire frequency spectrum with a mass of instruments. Your market may thus be limited to those that prefer Indian Classical. Also I used the fostex with some average SS amps for a few years like nad 325bee and also a Gainclone. But now I feel they sing better with a tube power amp. In fact I would not recommend pairing these drivers with SS as they reveal the hardness and flaws of SS gear and cables in the chain. In fact for those that cannot hear differences in swapping cables, I would recommend they listen to cable swap experiments on a fostex driver. The one time these speakers sounded astounding with SS was with GeorgeO's Grounded Grid tube preamp in the chain. These speakers may sound their best with low damping factor amps as the lightweight cone has a tendency to sound "overdamped" with SS.

However I have to admit, if you listen to Indian classical primarily, like I do - the sound grows on you to such an extent that it is hard to like other speakers costing 3x more. Even though it may not match other speakers in low frequency punch or extend into the 30khz range, once you taste the midrange, everything else sounds not worthwhile to me atleast.

For a first time business venture perhaps you should consider a product that serves more popular tastes?

--G0bble

FM Denom along with mpw last week auditioned the Audire which uses the 4" fostex driver. Even he told me the same thing. The bass lacked punch and the mid-range was too heavy masking the low frequency. Also the quality of the high-frequency was not there. I had done a couple of simulations using some compensations with the fostex driver and found them to be quite encouraging. The FR curve was ruler flat in the entire spectrum and its impedance and phase curves were also impressive. This made me incline towards the FE166en to be build in a TL enclosure. Without the compensation the fostex will for sure lack the punch in the bass response due to its high sensitivity will not allow the dynamic range to be attained in a SS amplifier. Also its a very revealing driver and any anomalies in the signal through the SS amp will also be highlighted by this speaker. Hence the signal fed to the fostex needs to be very pure in nature else it would sound colored and also will bring out the nuisance in the recordings too. Keeps me still wondering whether i should be trying it or not.

 

[jaudere]

Through my personal experience, I feel that full ranger needs some kind of help at top and at bottom. I am using equalizers to boost bottom and tame midrange. For highs, I am using separate tweeter. ( but I use Ahuja full ranger which is not so reputed full ranger as such for musical purpose which is huge and technically may not be a good full ranger). Probably the same may be applicable for other full rangers. now, why equalizers rather than a 2?3 way speaker with passive XO? Equalizers are before the amp and there is no filter between amp and full ranger.
Hari, you have a luxury of getting reviewers like Denom there. I need a third person's opinion about what I am doing. Yuvaraki visited my place recently but the EQs were not in chain that time.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Through my personal experience, I feel that full ranger needs some kind of help at top and at bottom. I am using equalizers to boost bottom and tame midrange. For highs, I am using separate tweeter. ( but I use Ahuja full ranger which is not so reputed full ranger as such for musical purpose which is huge and technically may not be a good full ranger). Probably the same may be applicable for other full rangers. now, why equalizers rather than a 2?3 way speaker with passive XO? Equalizers are before the amp and there is no filter between amp and full ranger.
Hari, you have a luxury of getting reviewers like Denom there. I need a third person's opinion about what I am doing. Yuvaraki visited my place recently but the EQs were not in chain that time.

The free-air FR curve changes after the driver is mounted on the baffle and there is no way of measuring them in our room. A high-end calibration mic will be needed to measure the near-field response after the speakers are build. Can't some compensation network be tried to tame the response after such measurements? Again this can apply only to your room boundaries. Any work done in this area?

 

[jaudere]

The free-air FR curve changes after the driver is mounted on the baffle and there is no way of measuring them in our room. A high-end calibration mic will be needed to measure the near-field response after the speakers are build. Can't some compensation network be tried to tame the response after such measurements? Again this can apply only to your room boundaries. Any work done in this area?

I wanted to ask this question since long.

I am using open baffles (winged baffle). I felt that the Free air response curve should apply to speakers mounted on open baffles also. Am I right or wrong? This is a frank question.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I wanted to ask this question since long.

I am using open baffles (winged baffle). I felt that the Free air response curve should apply to speakers mounted on open baffles also. Am I right or wrong? This is a frank question.

i think the free-air response is taken with the driver suspended in free-air in an anechoic room where there are no reflections from the cabinet and walls. ie. an ideal response. In an OB there is a baffle on which the driver is mounted hence the free-air response should not apply as the reflections from the baffle would color the response. I would suggest you apply some kind of thick absorbent around 3mm on the baffle (like a rubber sheet or a thick felt material) to absorb the reflections that would arise from the baffle. You can then check if the free-air response is same as the OB response. The baffle is now just being used to suspend the speaker in free-air with no reflections of its own due to the absorbent on the panel. This will also make the mid & high-freq more mellow and smooth.

Will be eager to hear from on on this after your exprimentation.

 

[jaudere]

Thanks Hari,
I don't have measuring instruments. I don't have budget for it either + I am lazy to do it because I am happy with the sound. However, I will try to put the rubber/felt thing on baffles. Should I try it on front surface or back surface?


What other materials are suitable? is a regular foam used in Sofa any suitable ? it is 4 inch thick but not dense. I am thinking of it because it is easily available.

One query. Shold one try to dampen reflections in an OB design? I used to think, one of the basic concepts in OBs was 'major amount of reflected sound' (that arises from backside of driver, gets reflected from back wall) ,reaching you. That is what probably creates a feel of spaciousness/liveliness.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Thanks Hari,
I don't have measuring instruments. I don't have budget for it either + I am lazy to do it because I am happy with the sound. However, I will try to put the rubber/felt thing on baffles. Should I try it on front surface or back surface?


What other materials are suitable? is a regular foam used in Sofa any suitable ? it is 4 inch thick but not dense. I am thinking of it because it is easily available.

One query. Shold one try to dampen reflections in an OB design? I used to think, one of the basic concepts in OBs was 'major amount of reflected sound' (that arises from backside of driver, gets reflected from back wall) ,reaching you. That is what probably creates a feel of spaciousness/liveliness.

Any reflections coming from the walls and cabinets is a kind of coloration which will be shifted in phase to cancel the direct waves. If the reflections are in phase with the main wave then it should sound pleasant, if not then they could cause phase shift and modify the detail in the sound signature. one way of preventing reflections from the baffle is to damp the baffle with atleast 3mm felt material. I used a doormat kind of stuff to dampen the baffle plate to prevent reflections from the baffle. Use the ones having a rubber base and a thick material on the front to absorb refelctiions. While placing the speaker calculate what frequency will get cancelled from the front and back reflection from the placement and apply a notch at that frequency. You can use the formula frequency = 1/ wavelength. I am not sure if you should use this formula or frequency = c/4*wavelength (quarter wave). please check this out in the internet. The rare wave and the front wave will get cancelled at this frequency and so you should use a notch at that frequency and not allow that frequency to be played by your OB speaker. Removal of this particular frequency will make your phase issues to also disappear and you will be able to hear them in phase.
Do let me know after your testing.