Do you use a NAS or USB drive

[rsjaurr]

I use neither and do not plan to use any method in the near future. I have stored music on a separate SSD in my transport which feeds directly to USB in of my DAC.

In the future, I might consider installing Window OS and use it a source/NAS sitting far away from my system and then use products like Sonore, Metrum Amber, etc.

 

[OM_2K19]

I am not so sure about RAID being a safe / reliable archive solution.

RAID is best seen as a way to span multiple HDDs.

If a NAS Power Supply fails, it could kill all HDDs in the NAS .... has happened to a Mumbai based audiophile i know.

He paid Rs 60K for data recovery....

RAID provides protection against disk failure since the data is stripped/replicated against multiple disks depending on the type of RAID you select. Most of the modern NAS devices are special purposes PC, running stripped down version of Linux on Intel Atom processor. That said, in case of a NAS failure, you can mount the NAS drives to any Unix machine (since they are already formatted with ext3/4 by NAS originally) and recover the data.

For a DIY solution, the best approach is to install Openmediavault (based on Debian) on a Intel NUC. It provides a cost effective and industrial grade reliability.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Unlike computing one doesn’t need an instant backup for media files as you’d rip/download them once in a while. On the other hand, the risk of losing both disks in a NAS is real. There are other reasons for using NAS, such as remote access that are more relevant.

 

[IndianEars]

RAID provides protection against disk failure since the data is stripped/replicated against multiple disks depending on the type of RAID you select. Most of the modern NAS devices are special purposes PC, running stripped down version of Linux on Intel Atom processor. That said, in case of a NAS failure, you can mount the NAS drives to any Unix machine (since they are already formatted with ext3/4 by NAS originally) and recover the data.

For a DIY solution, the best approach is to install Openmediavault (based on Debian) on a Intel NUC. It provides a cost effective and industrial grade reliability.

Sure, Raid writes data in a way that the RAID Array can even be self healing.....

But that ASSUMES that only 1 or 2 HDDs of the array fail.

In the case of a RAID Power supply failure were all drives fail similtanously, there is a complete collapse.

If the HDD PCB is fried due to the power surge, there is no question of mounting the HDDs on anothe machine !

Seriously data recovery techniques are required, which can be very costly... far more than the cost of the original HDD.

Many NAS users do not full appreciate worst case scenarios of NAS failures.

 

[IndianEars]

That's a great insight. Will surely think of a cloud backup in that case, especially for the rare files that I have in my collection.

Cloud back up is Very safe n secure.

A Great archival option if u r willing to pay the recurring cost.

 

[Yogesh]

The choice depends upon functionality you seek. 1. Audio Quality 2. Backup 3. Media Server.

1. The opinion seems divided here. I believe OP is talking about this point specifically.
2. NAS works for backup of your files in case of HDD failure. Case of NAS failure is a different matter altogether. You are OK if only NAS fails and HDD are spared. If whole gamut is fried as some of the FM said, you are done for. For back up two separate HDDs or Set of HDDs would be best bet. You will need to sync them manually though at some intervals.
3. NAS is clear winner.

 

[OM_2K19]

Sure, Raid writes data in a way that the RAID Array can even be self healing.....

But that ASSUMES that only 1 or 2 HDDs of the array fail.

In the case of a RAID Power supply failure were all drives fail similtanously, there is a complete collapse.

If the HDD PCB is fried due to the power surge, there is no question of mounting the HDDs on anothe machine !

Seriously data recovery techniques are required, which can be very costly... far more than the cost of the original HDD.

Many NAS users do not full appreciate worst case scenarios of NAS failures.

Different Raid provides a different level of tolerance against disk failure, one needs to pick the right one.

• 2 Drives - your only options are really RAID 1 and 0. I'd be going with RAID 1 for redundancy here. RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.
• 4 Drives (and up to 6) - RAID 10 for redundancy and extra speed. Again, RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.
• 6 Drives - RAID 6 for 2 drive redundancy, if uptime is a huge issue for you, or just plain old RAID 10 if uptime doesn't matter a huge deal. Again, RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.

Just like any other computing device, one must put the NAS device behind a UPS to minimize the failure/corruption due to power failure/surge. Not but least, vendors offer drives specially designed for NAS (Red Drives) which are extensively tested keeping the NAS failure situations in mind. BTW, these days the average failure/year rate for NAS grade drives is around 1%. This is a comprehensive matrix provided by Blackblaze, one of the largest provider of cloud storge.

 

[Bloom@83]

Whenever possible avoid a USB interface.

This is something I learnt the hard way. I had no clue USB implementation is poor in most entry level DACs even from brands like Schiit. I was almost on the point of selling my Schiit DAC, it sounded so unsatisfactory connected to my laptop.

It wasn’t until I used a BT streamer and used the coaxial interface of the the DAC did I realise that the DAC actually was pretty nice sounding after all.

 

[rsjaurr]

This is something I learnt the hard way. I had no clue USB implementation is poor in most entry level DACs even from brands like Schiit. I was almost on the point of selling my Schiit DAC, it sounded so unsatisfactory connected to my laptop.

It wasn’t until I used a BT streamer and used the coaxial interface of the the DAC did I realise that the DAC actually was pretty nice sounding after all.

Not just entry level but even mid-level DACs will have poor USB implementation. USB inherently is prone to jitter, noise etc and almost all entry or mid level do not rectify these issues obviously to cut corners.
This is the likely reason that some DACs cost many thousands of dollars because they start putting better clocks in the DACs, galvanically isolate USB, better power supply & shielding and other better tech to reduce jitter, noise etc.

 

[Bloom@83]

Not just entry level but even mid-level DACs will have poor USB implementation. USB inherently is prone to jitter, noise etc and almost all entry or mid level do not rectify these issues obviously to cut corners.
This is the likely reason that some DACs cost many thousands of dollars because they start putting better clocks in the DACs, galvanically isolate USB, better power supply & shielding and other better tech to reduce jitter, noise etc.

You are absolutely right.
Any idea of the Denafrips Aris 2 has good USB or not ?

 

[rsjaurr]

You are absolutely right.
Any idea of the Denafrips Aris 2 has good USB or not ?

I never used it or heard it personally but I doubt it will have good USB.
Terminator and terminator plus owners too have reported better SQ after pairing with GAIA. Both of these are their higher end DACs than Aries.

 

[drkrack]

Any idea of the Denafrips Aris 2 has good USB or not ?

USB interface is a waterloo of digital audio in my experience. The USB implementation in Ares2 is good but Gungnir Multibit had a relatively better implementation. Since Ares2 was much better than Cxn v2 DAC not details wise but tonality and soundstage wise, I was quite impressed with ares2 ; I thought there's no need to invest in USB noise reduction via cables, devices etc.
But, since Cxn v2 has a digital out as well, once I connected my PC to Cxn v2 via USB and connected the digital out of Cxn to Ares2. Bingo.. It was much superior to connecting directly to Ares2. The noise floor was reduced so much that there was improvement in whole of the frequency range. Cxn v2 was acting as USB to Coax converter and it was great at that job too. Ares2 accepts dsd/hires via Coax so there was no issue whatsoever.

Ipurifier 1 - ipurifier 2 -now ipurifier 3..
USB Regen - Iso Regen, curious cables, lush cables...
PS audio, Audioquest & all major hifi Manfacturer have usb jitter suppression solutions catering to various budgets. Many Expensive DACs like Audionote skip on USB input options, so avoid USB if avoidable IMHO.

 

[Bloom@83]

Wow. Two DACs in succession-one acting as USB to digital converter - first time heard of it.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Wow. Two DACs in succession-one acting as USB to digital converter - first time heard of it.

To be accurate, the CXN’s DAC doesn’t seem to be in use in that installation. It’s only converting from one digital medium to another.

My personal experience of CXN’s USB (with externally powered HDD) is quite satisfying. I wonder if those who have poor experience with USB are also drawing power out of the USB port. If so, please try using an externally powered drive and check.

 

[Bloom@83]

To be accurate, the CXN’s DAC doesn’t seem to be in use in that installation. It’s only converting from one digital medium to another.

My personal experience of CXN’s USB (with externally powered HDD) is quite satisfying. I wonder if those who have poor experience with USB are also drawing power out of the USB port. If so, please try using an externally powered drive and check.

Yes - first DAC isn’t doing any conversion - just transferring the digital signal from USB to Coaxial.

Schiit used to have a great product just for this purpose -the Schiit Eitr ( USB to SPDIF converter ). One of my acquaintances is using it with NAS and a PSAudio DAC with great results. It implemented the USB design and master clock of Schiit’s highest end DAC.

For some strange reason they have discontinued the product.

 

[IndianEars]

Yes - first DAC isn’t doing any conversion - just transferring the digital signal from USB to Coaxial.

Schiit used to have a great product just for this purpose -the Schiit Eitr ( USB to SPDIF converter ). One of my acquaintances is using it with NAS and a PSAudio DAC with great results. It implemented the USB design and master clock of Schiit’s highest end DAC.

For some strange reason they have discontinued the product.

What is the Max data rate supported on this Coax config ?

 

[IndianEars]

Different Raid provides a different level of tolerance against disk failure, one needs to pick the right one.

• 2 Drives - your only options are really RAID 1 and 0. I'd be going with RAID 1 for redundancy here. RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.
• 4 Drives (and up to 6) - RAID 10 for redundancy and extra speed. Again, RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.
• 6 Drives - RAID 6 for 2 drive redundancy, if uptime is a huge issue for you, or just plain old RAID 10 if uptime doesn't matter a huge deal. Again, RAID 0 if redundancy isn't important.

Just like any other computing device, one must put the NAS device behind a UPS to minimize the failure/corruption due to power failure/surge. Not but least, vendors offer drives specially designed for NAS (Red Drives) which are extensively tested keeping the NAS failure situations in mind. BTW, these days the average failure/year rate for NAS grade drives is around 1%. This is a comprehensive matrix provided by Blackblaze, one of the largest provider of cloud storge.

View attachment 52670

I believe you are missing the point I made....

Its NOT the HDDs that inherently fail that I am concerned, but the power supply in most below-Rs 50,000- NAS Drives is Very Basic and when such NAS PSUs fail, the NAS Power Supply in its death throes, could Kill all the HDDs in the NAS.

As I mentioned, this has happened to an Audiophile I know.

P.S: The failure of the NAS PSU may or May not be linked to an input surge from the mains, hence having a UPS before it, is no doubt helpful, but does not provide any assurance .....

 

[IndianEars]

Before going overboard on NAS solutions, One also needs to keep in mind the cost of even a Simple NAS + a set of ordinary HDDs.

The Cost of the Red Drives is prohibitive.

Even the cost of the NAS + Vanilla HDDs will exceed the cost of the DACs that most members are referring in this thread ! ... and still failure of the storage and loss of precious music cannot be ruled out ....

Infact from the reliability point of view 2 separate USB HDDs, one in use and the other an unplugged back up, is superior......

 

[IndianEars]

USB interface is a waterloo of digital audio in my experience. The USB implementation in Ares2 is good but Gungnir Multibit had a relatively better implementation. Since Ares2 was much better than Cxn v2 DAC not details wise but tonality and soundstage wise, I was quite impressed with ares2 ; I thought there's no need to invest in USB noise reduction via cables, devices etc.
But, since Cxn v2 has a digital out as well, once I connected my PC to Cxn v2 via USB and connected the digital out of Cxn to Ares2. Bingo.. It was much superior to connecting directly to Ares2. The noise floor was reduced so much that there was improvement in whole of the frequency range. Cxn v2 was acting as USB to Coax converter and it was great at that job too. Ares2 accepts dsd/hires via Coax so there was no issue whatsoever.

Ipurifier 1 - ipurifier 2 -now ipurifier 3..
USB Regen - Iso Regen, curious cables, lush cables...
PS audio, Audioquest & all major hifi Manfacturer have usb jitter suppression solutions catering to various budgets. Many Expensive DACs like Audionote skip on USB input options, so avoid USB if avoidable IMHO.

I agree that an Ethernet (streaming) Config, well executed (preferably with Optical isolation), will easily beat USB.

However a Good Streamer + NAS + NAS HDDs (even without Opitical isolation) will be WAY BEYOND the DAC price point that most are referring in this thread....

 

[IndianEars]

The choice depends upon functionality you seek. 1. Audio Quality 2. Backup 3. Media Server.

1. The opinion seems divided here. I believe OP is talking about this point specifically.
2. NAS works for backup of your files in case of HDD failure. Case of NAS failure is a different matter altogether. You are OK if only NAS fails and HDD are spared. If whole gamut is fried as some of the FM said, you are done for. For back up two separate HDDs or Set of HDDs would be best bet. You will need to sync them manually though at some intervals.
3. NAS is clear winner.

You have summed it up VERY Well.

I have currently chosen Option 2 outlined by you.