DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experience

[elangoas]

Hi All,

Sometime-back, i had tried Audyssey DSX surround mode in my AVR in 7.0 and shared my experience. Here is the link if you missed to read them http://www.hifivision.com/reviews/5...e-using-front-wide-spks-hands-experience.html

This time i tried both DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 set-up, and wanted to share my experience...

My Prior experience with Surround modes :

5.1 (Traditional Layout) - DTS & Dolby surround formats

7.1 (Traditional + Surround back) - DTS/Dolby + Dolby EX and DTS/Dolby + Dolby Prologic IIx
7.0 (Traditional + Front wides) - DTS/Dolby + Audyssey DSX

Having tried the 7.1 speaker set-up in both front wides & surround back, i felt front wides leave bigger impact on you...so it was time to experience to 9.1 using front heights also...Accidentally i came across Onida Satellite speakers which were lying @ home. unused for many years.. Confirmed with friends & FM here, they said it was 8 Ohms speakers & can be used with AVR comfortably (And yes it is)...

Since i don't have a sub-woofer, i refer to my setup as 9.0

Room Layout : 14 feet wide x 11 feet depth, Listening postion approx 9 ~ 10 feet from the TV

Here are some pic of my room

Center view -

Left view -

Right View -

Components used : Onkyo TX NR 818 7.2 AVR (9.2 Capable) with addition of a stereo amplifier used as a power amplifier for front height channels... Additional STEREO Amplifier - Kenwood A-3X stereo amplifier which has Pre in & out to connect to external amplifier (got it for 4.5K)

Audyssey Dynamic EQ & volume - Enabled.

Surround modes used : DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX... Tried Dolby Prologic IIz, but i cuts the front wides and plays only on the surround heights...Since the whole purpose of 9.0 using front wides & heights is defeated, didn't use Dolby Prologic IIz....

Front Left & Right - Sonodyne Sonus 2605 FS - Approx 6 feet wide
Center Channel - Sonodyne Sonus C2401 (Old model)
Surround left & right - Sonodyne Sonus Rears Dipole's
Front Wides - Onida Satellite speakers (Full Range speakers like bose) - At the corners of the walls, 14 feet apart
Front heights - Onida Satellite speakers (Full Range speakers like bose) - On the front wall, near the roof, directed towards listening position, Approx 10 feet high from ground level and 5 feet above the front floor-standers....

I didn't run the Audyssey calibration as this will produce zoop zoop sound for 72 times for 9 speakers and each speaker measured at 8 different locations..

Tweaked the level calibration manually....

The reason i din't calibrate the speakers is because, i plan to change the speaker set-up (More details towards the end of this experience)

Listening experience - Played some familiar movies...

Unstoppable : File size around 12 GB - Sound track DTS Audio (5.1) @ approx 1536 Kbps..
This is one movie which i would love to watch it in 9.1 mode...The trains passing thru the screen whenever made me feel it very realistic. You can easily feel that the action is happening in front of you....:thumbsup:

The Grey : File size around 30 GB - Sound track DTS HD Master Audio (5.1) @ approx 3000 Kbps..
This is one fantastic movie which i would love to her on any setup... This movie has lot of background information, be it the wolves howling, the winds in the snow... At the beginning of the movie, when the name pops up, there is a small bit on the wolves howling... THese are played on front wides & height speaker making the impact REALLY bigger... Same applies when their flight crshes on the snow mountain & they walk to a secure place, the buzzing of winds is a real treat to hear...... Extremely impressed....:thumbsup:

Gravity : File size around 7 GB - Sound track DTS Audio (5.1) @ approx 1536 Kbps..
What a fantastic movie this is..The very first scene of the movie where they move around to fix the issue, the voices are distinctly heard in from front
height speakers...The expanded soundstage is simply awesome hyeah:

The Nut Job : File size around 7 GB - Sound track DTS HD Master Audio (5.1) @ approx 3500 Kbps..
Very good animated movie.... THere is this scene in the movie, when the hero squirrel moves from the left of the screen to right and then back to left elaborating others on how to rob the nut go down for food... When it moves from left to right of the screen, part of the dialogues move from the left front height speakers and left speaker to the center and then to the right speaker & partly to front height speaker too... Only when there ar dialogues moving around the screen, i think it spills over.....

Avatar : File size around 47GB - Sound track DTS HD Master Audio (5.1) @ approx 4000 Kbps...
You can't ask for a better movie than this for surrounds....Especially when hero Jake is on their land for the very first time & eva rescuing him from
creatures is truly enjoyable.... Again very huge soundstage......

I toggled between DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode to check if there is a difference.... I feel that Audyssey DSX surround mode is more lively while DTS Neo:X is more subtle in presentation.... For some scenes, it didn't make difference...

I think i WILL retain this 9.0 setup.. Juz planning to change speakers to below (letting go off my beloved Sonus 2605 FS & Sonus c2401 centers to my friend)

Replace Sonus 1501 BS for Fronts, Front wides & Front heights.., Replace Sonus C2401 with the new Sonus C2501 center speaker...

I had already experienced 7.0 using Audyssey DSX mode with front wides, now this 9.0 experience is too good... I think someone who watches/watched the movie in regular 5.1 mode should experience & tell the impact.....

Any forum member who likes to experience beyond 5.1 are more than welcome home on the weekends....

 

[kneo]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

In the list of sources you mentioned, almost all the sources were having 5.1 streams. Did you actually use these 5.1 audio output which was then processed to be split into 7.0 and 9.0 by the AVR? Did you try and source having 7.1 or 9.1 audio stream?

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

In the list of sources you mentioned, almost all the sources were having 5.1 streams. Did you actually use these 5.1 audio output which was then processed to be split into 7.0 and 9.0 by the AVR? Did you try and source having 7.1 or 9.1 audio stream?

Oh yeah.. My bad.. Missed that info... Thanks for pointing.... Yes you are right...

I use XBMC (WASAPI mode) to play movies/music via HDMI out from my PC's Graphics card to the AVR... So basically the 5.1 data is untouched till it reaches the AVR....

I haven't yet tried 7.1/9.1 audio stream... Could you please suggest the names of the movie in 9.1,.. I ll try to source from my friends if they have...

 

[kneo]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

In that case you would not have enjoyed the separation as the sound engineer intended. Basically it's akin to playing stereo in 5.1. Google for movies having more than 6 channels. Alternatively download demos having such tracks and then try it. You would enjoy it more.

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

In that case you would not have enjoyed the separation as the sound engineer intended. Basically it's akin to playing stereo in 5.1. Google for movies having more than 6 channels. Alternatively download demos having such tracks and then try it. You would enjoy it more.

Sure Kneo... Will try them

If the movies were mastered in more than 5.1 channels and you play back them on a 5.1 system, we are not enjoying the way the engineer intended to do it... But expanding the normal 5.1 movies beyond 5.1 using surround expansion mode is completely different to the above...

Expanding the existing sound-stage gives you a whole lot bigger impact which is truly enjoyable in my opinion...

Sure will try to source movies in 7.1 material (or) will re-look @ my digital collection of movies to check if i have 7.1 material (I think i have Elysium in 7.1 DTS-HDMA)

Expanding stereo to 5.1 is different from expanding 5.1 to 7/9/11.1

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

@Mods - I missed few info the above review (Thanks Kneo).. Appreciate if you can slot the below information in between surround modes used & speakers used..

Source for movies : HTPC (All of them Digital Files).. Around 3TB of collection..

Media Player : XBMC (WASAPI Mode)

Connectivity : HTPC -> AVR -> TV (All Via HDMI, HDMI ARC between AVR and TV)

 

[madhanmss]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

you are living the dream. Hope i can visit the setup one day.

why are you changing the FS to BS? wont that affect the overall bass effect as you do not have a Sub?

I have couple of Blu-ray's [most of them are animation though] and can check if there are any with 7.1 track if u want.

i moved here couple of months back and planning to convert my bedroom into a HT as my hall is not suitable with the way it was constructed.

 

[Amarendra]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

Great write up. Basically you are saying that if i add front height or surround back speakers the AVR will send the sound to them even if the audio track is 5.1 ?

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

you are living the dream. Hope i can visit the setup one day.

why are you changing the FS to BS? wont that affect the overall bass effect as you do not have a Sub?

I have couple of Blu-ray's [most of them are animation though] and can check if there are any with 7.1 track if u want.

i moved here couple of months back and planning to convert my bedroom into a HT as my hall is not suitable with the way it was constructed.

Sure buddy.. You are more than welcome... Appreciate if you can check & update here... Will be glad to have you around & enjoy movie from a quality source.....

Whatz the point when you know that your AVR is capable of 9.2 & restricted play back is always 5.1? .... So went ahead & tried it....

The reason am changing from FS to BS is because, i can have more timbre matched BS from same brand/family for even more engrossing effect.... For now the Onida satellite speakers (Average) is doing the duty of expanding soundstage hyeah:

No where you would get a 9.x HT demo....I wanted to try/experience this 9.x setup, though not an ideal HT set-up, gives me an idea of how a proper 9.x HT would sound like so that i can plan my upgrade for speakers...

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

Great write up. Basically you are saying that if i add front height or surround back speakers the AVR will send the sound to them even if the audio track is 5.1 ?

Yes.. Your understanding is right... Depending on what surround program/mode you choose, the AVR will expand the sound-stage accordingly...

Assuming you have a 7.1 capable AVR & now you have restricted to 5.1, try to experience 7.1 by adding an old stereo speaker if you have at home & then decide if it is really worth it.....

 

[madhanmss]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

Sure buddy.. You are more than welcome... Appreciate if you can check & update here... Will be glad to have you around & enjoy movie from a quality source.....

Sure Elango. I will check and update once i reach home from office. I am thinking of a similar 9.1 setup as a gradual upgrade. Lets see.

I live in Madambakkam, Tambaram. where do u live?

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

Sure Elango. I will check and update once i reach home from office. I am thinking of a similar 9.1 setup as a gradual upgrade. Lets see.

I live in Madambakkam, Tambaram. where do u live?

Cool Buddy.. 9.1 setup as a gradual upgrade is the best way to go if you enjoy movies..

I live in the outskirts of the city Aranvoyal/Sevvapet rly station, Near Tiruvallur..

 

[LocutusEstBorg]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

What is your opinion on Audyssey DSX Wide vs Wide + Heights. I want to setup both Atmos and DSX, so I can only have Wide and one pair of Atmos ceiling speakers. Is Wide + Height worth it over Atmos?

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

What is your opinion on Audyssey DSX Wide vs Wide + Heights. I want to setup both Atmos and DSX, so I can only have Wide and one pair of Atmos ceiling speakers. Is Wide + Height worth it over Atmos?

I have experienced Audyssey DSX with Front wides (7.0) and Front wides + Front height (9.0) config...If adding front wides wides was very good, adding front heights make it a brilliant movie watching experience from 5.1 sources...

I haven't experienced Atmos so far.. If Onkyo had provided firmware update to my model, would have tried Atmos @ home too....

I don't think you can have Audyssey DSX & Dolby atmos and work together... Audyssey DSX adds front wides, front heights and surround back if your AVR is 11.x capable...

Atmos works differently... They have more traditional 5/7.1 layout & you can add 2/4 ceiling speakers...They don't support front Wides...

I get your point of moving the front heights to ceiling & but they work differently and i don't think you can get it work together....

Audyssey DSX/ DTS Neo : X expand 5.1 sources to 7/9/11.x movie watching experience while Dolby Atmos will have discrete information....

 

[LocutusEstBorg]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

I can have Front Wide for DSX and Height 1 for Atmos. They are both separate terminals on the amp. Only Height 2 is shared with Front Wide.

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

I can have Front Wide for DSX and Height 1 for Atmos. They are both separate terminals on the amp. Only Height 2 is shared with Front Wide.

Oh.. Thats great... Could you please share the link to the product ?

BTW have you taken Atmos demo in an AVR ?

 

[LocutusEstBorg]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

Oh.. Thats great... Could you please share the link to the product ?

BTW have you taken Atmos demo in an AVR ?

ZoomImage

I haven't heard Atmos yet.

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

ZoomImage

I haven't heard Atmos yet.

When looking at this image and what you told earlier of moving height speaker to ceiling, you can enjoy Audyssey DSX in 9.1 mode & Dolby Atmos in 5.1.2 at the same time without moving speakers.... Like best of both worlds....

 

[LocutusEstBorg]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

The DSX Height terminals are shared with Atmos, but the speaker positioning will be wrong. DSX Height have to be Front Height speakers facing forwards, not ceiling. Atmos actually supports Front Height forward facing speakers as one of the positions according to their spec but whether the AVR exposes that as a renderer position is unknown. The AVR must know the exact position of the Atmos speakers to correctly position the object based audio. You cannot tell it you're using ceiling speakers and actually use Front Heights.

I was also thinking of getting only the reflector type Atmos modules to place on top of my fronts. Ceiling mounting is not feasible for me.

 

[elangoas]

Re: DTS Neo:X Cinema and Audyssey DSX surround mode using 9.0 setup - Hands on Experi

The DSX Height terminals are shared with Atmos, but the speaker positioning will be wrong. DSX Height have to be Front Height speakers facing forwards, not ceiling. Atmos actually supports Front Height forward facing speakers as one of the positions according to their spec but whether the AVR exposes that as a renderer position is unknown. The AVR must know the exact position of the Atmos speakers to correctly position the object based audio. You cannot tell it you're using ceiling speakers and actually use Front Heights.

I was also thinking of getting only the reflector type Atmos modules to place on top of my fronts. Ceiling mounting is not feasible for me.

Yes.. you are right abt speaker positioning for heights... From the internet, what i have read & seen images of Atmos speaker setup, the speakers were on the ceiling... Wasn't aware that Atmos supports front height config facing the listener....

I don't know how much a reflector type atmos speaker is effective... The images show that reflected sound from the ceiling comes towards the listener hyeah:.. Sound may very well get dispersed in all direction's....

If you are preparing for Atmos setup, and if ceiling mount is not possible, then a DIY triangle shaped speakers which fits the corner of the roof's aimed @ listener should do a very good job....

BTW what AVR are you planning for ?

Please callup/visit the Onkyo showroom (Prodigi - Mylapore), to check if they have Atmos AVR for demo... Should help you....