With the final addition of latest speakers, my AV setup is now where I can sit back and enjoy for a few months before thinking of any more upgrades. Few pics of my setup that is shared between music and HT. Equipment is all as in the sig.
Dual Music/HT Setup
- Thread starter sarge_in
- Start date
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Congrats ,nice setup.
vasishta.sushant
Active Member
Makes me wish even more.....I wish I was in the US as well.
Great show there. Congrats.
Great show there. Congrats.
ajay124
Well-Known Member
sarge
Lovely set up. I would love to listen to music and watch a film in your room. Focusing only on two channel , as I have, does have its downside. I have watched very few films at home in the past one year. When I want to watch a DVD, I remove the single ended RCA's from my cdp and connect them to a Yamaha DVD. I use a 30 feet long coaxial cable for transferring the video from the DVD to the TV which is on the other side of the room. The sound even in two channel is impressive, but it comes from behind me, as the speakers and TV are on the opposite side of the room. The audio is very good and the dialogues still appear to be coming from the direction of the TV. But even carrying my DVD player to the audio rack and setting it up seems a chore, so I always wind up listening to music instead of watching a film.
In your set up, the right tower has a wall running next to it, and a sofa in front of it. Your left tower has no obstruction or wall. It opens out to a far bigger space than the right speaker. Until a few months ago my towers had a similar placement as yours. I was unable to do any precise imaging or sound staging. Ultimately I removed the intruding furniture from the room, and added a new wall to solve the problem.
Have you faced any similar problems with the sound and imaging?
Lovely set up. I would love to listen to music and watch a film in your room. Focusing only on two channel , as I have, does have its downside. I have watched very few films at home in the past one year. When I want to watch a DVD, I remove the single ended RCA's from my cdp and connect them to a Yamaha DVD. I use a 30 feet long coaxial cable for transferring the video from the DVD to the TV which is on the other side of the room. The sound even in two channel is impressive, but it comes from behind me, as the speakers and TV are on the opposite side of the room. The audio is very good and the dialogues still appear to be coming from the direction of the TV. But even carrying my DVD player to the audio rack and setting it up seems a chore, so I always wind up listening to music instead of watching a film.
In your set up, the right tower has a wall running next to it, and a sofa in front of it. Your left tower has no obstruction or wall. It opens out to a far bigger space than the right speaker. Until a few months ago my towers had a similar placement as yours. I was unable to do any precise imaging or sound staging. Ultimately I removed the intruding furniture from the room, and added a new wall to solve the problem.
Have you faced any similar problems with the sound and imaging?
ajay -
You (or other forum members) are very welcome to drop in for a listen (or a movie!) if ever in southern california - I have had a couple folks over, and its fun!
As you are well aware, optimizing room for one purpose usually causes compromises in the other. But I did not have much choice in the matter as I do like to watch movies as well (as does my wife) and this is the only room that could have been used for both purposes. Not to mention the additional cost of equipment if I went the route of different rooms.
Also, as you stated, there is no doubt the room is sub-optimal for serious music listening. There were even bigger issues to start with. The room is quite open with cathedral ceilings and opens to the staircase that opens to the whole upper floor. There is also a hallway at bottom of the stairs that opens to family room behind. In short, this is a VERY echoey box with sound bouncing all around and messing it completely for imaging etc. Changing the structure of the room is not possible, as the space to the left of the left speakers in the entry to the house, so no question of building a wall in the room. The right wall is the edge of the house, so no question of dropping it. The sofas, I played with it a bit. I tried switching the 2 and the 3 seater so the speaker would have more room. But that was visually very unappealing to have smaller one on the longer wall. It also made the center seat of the 3-seater the prime-spot, and that is the only seat with no hand rests and no recliner (all other seats can be reclined). In the end it didn't work out so I went with current layout. And the right speaker has to be quite close to the wall because the projector screen has to drop between them, plus I cant have the speaker partly on wood and partly on carpet as that causes the speaker to tilt. So, in short, quite a few compromises!
Which is why I sought help of GIK Acoustics to treat whatever could be done to the room. They are a pretty knowledgable and helping lot and based on their suggestions I ended up getting all the panels you see in the pic - 3 on the left side, and the 1 big art panel on the right side (the painting over the couch). Side-reflections in many cases help with soundstage but in my case that was the only way to control echo. Also put 4 bass traps (tri-traps) in the two corners behind the speakers), and moved the sub from right corner to current position in the pics. All of these made distinct changes to the sound, and I was able to measure the reduced decay times using REW and mic etc. As it sounds now, the speakers image VERY well, the echo has been contained a fair amount (though it is still there of course) and soundstage is also pretty good. I am sure all of these could be even better if the room were ideal and symmetric, but I am not unhappy at all as it currently stands. The imaging is also a function of toe-in - I can increase toe-in to enhance imaging but the soundstage then suffers (becomes narrower). For now I am therefore using no toe-in and like the wide and holographic soundstage it currently throws. I may try more toe-in some time, but it is a bit more difficult as the speakers are very heavy and scratch the wood floor if i slide them (I have already scratched the floor a bit
) - so they currently rest on circluar disks under each spike and I don't plan to mess with them for some time at least.
You (or other forum members) are very welcome to drop in for a listen (or a movie!) if ever in southern california - I have had a couple folks over, and its fun!
As you are well aware, optimizing room for one purpose usually causes compromises in the other. But I did not have much choice in the matter as I do like to watch movies as well (as does my wife) and this is the only room that could have been used for both purposes. Not to mention the additional cost of equipment if I went the route of different rooms.
Also, as you stated, there is no doubt the room is sub-optimal for serious music listening. There were even bigger issues to start with. The room is quite open with cathedral ceilings and opens to the staircase that opens to the whole upper floor. There is also a hallway at bottom of the stairs that opens to family room behind. In short, this is a VERY echoey box with sound bouncing all around and messing it completely for imaging etc. Changing the structure of the room is not possible, as the space to the left of the left speakers in the entry to the house, so no question of building a wall in the room. The right wall is the edge of the house, so no question of dropping it. The sofas, I played with it a bit. I tried switching the 2 and the 3 seater so the speaker would have more room. But that was visually very unappealing to have smaller one on the longer wall. It also made the center seat of the 3-seater the prime-spot, and that is the only seat with no hand rests and no recliner (all other seats can be reclined). In the end it didn't work out so I went with current layout. And the right speaker has to be quite close to the wall because the projector screen has to drop between them, plus I cant have the speaker partly on wood and partly on carpet as that causes the speaker to tilt. So, in short, quite a few compromises!
Which is why I sought help of GIK Acoustics to treat whatever could be done to the room. They are a pretty knowledgable and helping lot and based on their suggestions I ended up getting all the panels you see in the pic - 3 on the left side, and the 1 big art panel on the right side (the painting over the couch). Side-reflections in many cases help with soundstage but in my case that was the only way to control echo. Also put 4 bass traps (tri-traps) in the two corners behind the speakers), and moved the sub from right corner to current position in the pics. All of these made distinct changes to the sound, and I was able to measure the reduced decay times using REW and mic etc. As it sounds now, the speakers image VERY well, the echo has been contained a fair amount (though it is still there of course) and soundstage is also pretty good. I am sure all of these could be even better if the room were ideal and symmetric, but I am not unhappy at all as it currently stands. The imaging is also a function of toe-in - I can increase toe-in to enhance imaging but the soundstage then suffers (becomes narrower). For now I am therefore using no toe-in and like the wide and holographic soundstage it currently throws. I may try more toe-in some time, but it is a bit more difficult as the speakers are very heavy and scratch the wood floor if i slide them (I have already scratched the floor a bit
) - so they currently rest on circluar disks under each spike and I don't plan to mess with them for some time at least.
Sarge ,
Lovely setup!! I was looking for where you mounted the PJ and there it shows up like a cat on the wall. I like the motorized screen even better.
Can you tell me the cost of PJ and motorized screen with mounting charges?
Thanks!
Kittu
Lovely setup!! I was looking for where you mounted the PJ and there it shows up like a cat on the wall
. I like the motorized screen even better. Can you tell me the cost of PJ and motorized screen with mounting charges?
Thanks!
Kittu
ajay124
Well-Known Member
sarge
I think you have considered and understood all the pros and contras of your room extremely well. You could try a microscopic toe-in, the front inner spike 1/10 centimetre behind the front outer spike. It's amazing what a virtually unnoticeable toe-in can do to the sound.
In my system toe-in works best when there is a reasonable amount of distance between the speakers. To make it work I have keep at least 7 feet separation between the speakers. With less than 6 feet separation, toe-in resulted in smearing and overlapping of sound. The final sound quality from a system is the sum total of multiple factors and it is impossible to give any 'recommendation' which will work in every system
I think you have considered and understood all the pros and contras of your room extremely well. You could try a microscopic toe-in, the front inner spike 1/10 centimetre behind the front outer spike. It's amazing what a virtually unnoticeable toe-in can do to the sound.
In my system toe-in works best when there is a reasonable amount of distance between the speakers. To make it work I have keep at least 7 feet separation between the speakers. With less than 6 feet separation, toe-in resulted in smearing and overlapping of sound. The final sound quality from a system is the sum total of multiple factors and it is impossible to give any 'recommendation' which will work in every system
Sweet set-up sarge_in!, and the fact that it is in Southern California is even better:clapping:. Sure movies and music go very well with a nice Napa vintage. On a serious note, I believe GIk acoustics has the best value acoustic solutions in the market and are serious value.
Cheers,
Sid
. On a serious note, I believe GIk acoustics has the best value acoustic solutions in the market and are serious value.Cheers,
Sid
Sarge ,
Lovely setup!! I was looking for where you mounted the PJ and there it shows up like a cat on the wall
Can you tell me the cost of PJ and motorized screen with mounting charges?
Thanks!
Kittu
Thanks Kittu!
Yeah I got lucky that the previous owner had put in that horizontal column which worked out perfectly for the projector. Even the width was ideal!
The Epson 8500 projector cost $2000 in mid-2010, it's the older model but works very well!
The screen is Focupix, and was $315 at the time. Comes with wall switch, IR remote and RF remote. Focupix HDVio 16:9 Widescreen Electric Motorized Projector Screen - 110"
Installation is difficult to estimate as it was part of a whole house install of various cables, speakers and what-not. They made a channel in the side wall beams and up the column to route 2 HDMI wires, power cables and speaker wires for the 4 in-wall speakers in the columns. Easier in US due to drywall rather than cement / brick walls, but more expensive due to expensive labor.
sarge
I think you have considered and understood all the pros and contras of your room extremely well. You could try a microscopic toe-in, the front inner spike 1/10 centimetre behind the front outer spike. It's amazing what a virtually unnoticeable toe-in can do to the sound.
In my system toe-in works best when there is a reasonable amount of distance between the speakers. To make it work I have keep at least 7 feet separation between the speakers. With less than 6 feet separation, toe-in resulted in smearing and overlapping of sound. The final sound quality from a system is the sum total of multiple factors and it is impossible to give any 'recommendation' which will work in every system
Sure, that should be easily doable - thanks for the recommendation! Will give it a shot when I get back home this weekend.
Sounds like you have played a fair bit with your placement too. Am sure it sounds awesome!
Sweet set-up sarge_in!, and the fact that it is in Southern California is even better:clapping:. Sure movies and music go very well with a nice Napa vintage
Cheers,
Sid
Thanks Sid! Though in my case - being a teetotaler / diet-coke-totaler - it ends up with a different but still enjoyable vintage
. Wonder if mandira-paan enhances imaging / soundstage though And yep, GIK is nice not only for the well-priced products but also the advice they give. Bryan hands out advice free on various forums, esp audiocircle, where they have a 'circle'.
anm
Well-Known Member
great setup sarge, and your thread comes as an encouragement for dual setups. I am also looking to make my living room a music+ movie setup as I enjoy both. But to simplify on the complexity, I am thinking of completely separating the two equipment/ speakers wise.
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Wonder if mandira-paan enhances imaging/soundstage
It won't happen with Napa Valley/Sonoma Country wines. But the wines from Bourgogne, Bordeaux, Rhone or the Loire Valley can work wonders with High Fidelity sound
I have tried wines from most regions of the world, and every region makes decent wines. Even the quality of wines from Sahyadri and Nandi Hills in India has dramatically improved in recent times.
Preferences vary from person to person. The new trend seems to be for 'casual' easy to drink, easy to understand, wines from the 'new world' countries like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile, Argentina and the United States. But personally I prefer the complexity and 'drama' of wines from the 'old world'. France, Italy, Spain and Germany.
Sancerre, Vouvray, Pouilly Fume from the Loire Valley, Chablis, Pinot from Burgundy, Syrah from the Rhone Valley, Cabernet Sauvignon from Medoc, Ribera Del Duero, Rioja from Spain, Barbera, Nebbiolo from Italy, Riesling from Germany.
It won't happen with Napa Valley/Sonoma Country wines. But the wines from Bourgogne, Bordeaux, Rhone or the Loire Valley can work wonders with High Fidelity sound
I have tried wines from most regions of the world, and every region makes decent wines. Even the quality of wines from Sahyadri and Nandi Hills in India has dramatically improved in recent times.
Preferences vary from person to person. The new trend seems to be for 'casual' easy to drink, easy to understand, wines from the 'new world' countries like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile, Argentina and the United States. But personally I prefer the complexity and 'drama' of wines from the 'old world'. France, Italy, Spain and Germany.
Sancerre, Vouvray, Pouilly Fume from the Loire Valley, Chablis, Pinot from Burgundy, Syrah from the Rhone Valley, Cabernet Sauvignon from Medoc, Ribera Del Duero, Rioja from Spain, Barbera, Nebbiolo from Italy, Riesling from Germany.
GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
Looks very nice.
Wonder if mandira-paan enhances imaging/soundstage
It won't happen with Napa Valley/Sonoma Country wines. But the wines from Bourgogne, Bordeaux, Rhone or the Loire Valley can work wonders with High Fidelity sound
I have tried wines from most regions of the world, and every region makes decent wines. Even the quality of wines from Sahyadri and Nandi Hills in India has dramatically improved in recent times.
Preferences vary from person to person. The new trend seems to be for 'casual' easy to drink, easy to understand, wines from the 'new world' countries like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile, Argentina and the United States. But personally I prefer the complexity and 'drama' of wines from the 'old world'. France, Italy, Spain and Germany.
Sancerre, Vouvray, Pouilly Fume from the Loire Valley, Chablis, Pinot from Burgundy, Syrah from the Rhone Valley, Cabernet Sauvignon from Medoc, Ribera Del Duero, Rioja from Spain, Barbera, Nebbiolo from Italy, Riesling from Germany.
I concur ajay124, at the risk of going OT to Sarge_in's post - My palate feels the same, but there are some exceptions - I had a superb Chilean cabernet at an Italian rest. in NJ last fall, and a superb Barossa valley shiraz this summer in malaysia. Anyways living in hyd. these are just dreams because it is almost impossible to find good wine here, unless of-course you are related to our late CM and his kin, then you just buy a few hundered cases and nobody - even the union govt. dares to question you, lest you bring about a constitutional crisis (of the govt. kind - not the bodily kind
hyeah.I am getting by, thanks to a fairly decent Cabarnet by Sula.
And BTW, Sarge_in, is it me or the coke in India tastes different. I am a huge diet coke drinker and to me it appears that the indian version is slightly different, sweeter maybe, but till I do double blind test:lol:, in relation to so many other posts here, I can't be sure.
Cheers,
Sid
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
^^Sid you can try signing up for Wine Society of India. They get some pretty interesting stuff most of the time. Not that expensive and you can choose what you want to an extent.
The Wine Society of India - Learn about wines, attend wine events, discover wines - in India
Yup coke in India tastes different. Diet tastes similar (not the same though) but the normal coke is very very sweet in comparison to US coke. I remember coke experimenting with the US formula for a while in India. There was a short duration during which they sold these with a yellow cap. No longer available now.
PS: Super sorry for going OT.
Anyway coming to the topic - Beautiful speakers.
The Wine Society of India - Learn about wines, attend wine events, discover wines - in India
Yup coke in India tastes different. Diet tastes similar (not the same though) but the normal coke is very very sweet in comparison to US coke. I remember coke experimenting with the US formula for a while in India. There was a short duration during which they sold these with a yellow cap. No longer available now
.PS: Super sorry for going OT.
Anyway coming to the topic - Beautiful speakers
.
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