Ear Fatigue

[joyous]

Why some speakers cause ear fatigue and some not? I have experienced ear fatigue even in good sounding speakers. Ear fatigue certainly varies with speakers. Why this happens and how can we measure ear fatigue to better purchase of speakers?

Thanks

 

[corElement]

I find ear fatigue quite interesting.

In the sense that the days I am tired and my blood pressure is running high, I am easily fatigued by listening to high clarity sound.

But on other days, the same setup and volume has no impact at all.

Things like this actually set the point of diminishing returns for me and high end audio equipment.
Because my own biology is always dynamically changing and spending endless money on changing from type a to type b vertically or horizontally will in both scenarios still often affect me negatively.

The plain and simple fact is, you have to audition, and you have to audition with as many personalized elements as possible. There is no greater measurement for determining ear fatiguing speakers in the open market that is today.

Because whats fatigue to you may not be fatigue to me. And whats fatigue to you right now, may not be fatigue to you tomorrow due to your own dynamic constitution.

Personalized elements are important because there are certain other things like synergy between equipment that can also cause fatigue.

For example the interconnect between a source and an amplifier can make a setup overly bright and cause ear fatigue, while another cable wont do so. While at the same time, the same cable which made one system overly bright, can help bring resolution to a warmer setup.

Do you get the co-relation happening?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Fatigue is caused by anything your brain doesn't like. And this is mental fatigue. There is no such thing as "ear-fatigue" AFAIK.

When we hear any sound (that includes listening to music), our brain constantly processes what we hear. And it's not just about auditory senses, but also visual, also tactitionary. Our brain constantly processes everything that our senses transmit to it. We learn to pay attention to the ones important to us at a subconscious level. By choosing to pay attention to some and ignoring the rest we tell our brain to focus on things which are more important to us.

As far as fatigue caused by an audio system is concerned. It boils down to two things. Cohesion in the sound and the content. Listening to content that we don't like is an easy way to cause fatigue. But even when the content is likable it's presentation may be not.

Most of the fatigue caused by listening to an audio system is due to sibilance, harshness in the upper region of the audible frequency range. It may be caused due to wrong type of material used for construction of driver or it may be due to a bad cross-over (assuming its not a 1-way design).

Usually, speaker with metallic tweeters have the tendency to sound harsh more. Specially if there is distortion somewhere in the audio chain (source, amplification). Metallic drivers can produce harmonics which create a lower level of ringing pattern. Such speakers may sound "detailed" to some listeners, and "bright" to others. And the moment your brain starts taking a specific sound as bright, it is likely it will cause fatigue fast.

Though it is always a matter of implementation, soft silk dome tweeters or ribbon tweeters are less likely to produce fatigue than tweeters with metallic drivers.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The wrong music at the wrong time is always fatiguing.

Apart from that, I recognise fatigue as a symptom of listening to low-bit-rate compressed sound. Even in speech, comedy stops being funny, drama stops being gripping, and I just feel tired of listening. Is this a kind of subconscious "lack of cohesion?"

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Odd order distortion and distortion in general,phase problems,messed up frequency response,room reflections,raw SPL.

Frequency response and room reflections tend to be the biggest culprits at lower volume levels where speakers are typically within their linear envelope. ELC curves must be factored in.

And of course variables between individuals and in a given individuals mental and physical state over time.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Low bit-rate stuff is a sure-shot way to cause fatigue. It strips certain frequencies, thus robing the cohesion of the whole spectrum off the content.

 

[technobhatt]

For example the interconnect between a source and an amplifier can make a setup overly bright and cause ear fatigue, while another cable wont do so. While at the same time, the same cable which made one system overly bright, can help bring resolution to a warmer setup.

Pardon me for going slightly offtopic.
I would like to know, how can an interconnect cable make a set-up Warm or Bright ?
Any pointers please.

 

[srisaikat]

In general, I feel little fatigue with DENON - Polk combo, but with NAD - Polk combo there is no fatigue at all. There is also some thing more I should add. My observation is true specially for old hindi, bengali, w.classic music. With modern music denon has upper-hand, no fatigue at all. Jazz & Country are so soothing with DENON, sounds very delightful, musical nuisances are more pronounced. But with western classic NAD is better & more relaxing than Denon. I feel fatigue listening Western Classic in Denon. So considering fatigue NAD is some what all-rounder than Denon.

 

[corElement]

Pardon me for going slightly offtopic.
I would like to know, how can an interconnect cable make a set-up Warm or Bright ?
Any pointers please.

It won't directly make a system warm or bright, but suppose if a system is already audibly bright or warm, putting bright on bright and warm on warm will push it further to an extreme that may not be acceptable. Which is why we use the word synergy to represent how each components match up.

Here are some facts

copper = warm
silver = detailed

multistrand coppper = bright
single core copper = warmer

multistrand silver = very bright
Solid core silver = bright

Hyperlitz single core configuration = low distortion / warmer compared to regular multistrand shielded configuration cables.


For brighter sound look for one or more of these
- Silver based cable (significant factor to establish brighter sound)
- Multi-strand cable (significant factor to establish brighter sound)
- Regular termination
- WBT nextgen termination
- Silver based termination
- High capacitance

For darker sound look for one or more of these
- Copper based cable (significant factor to establish dark sound)
- single core cable in hyperlitz configuration (3 solid cores twisted around each other)
- Eichmann / ETI Bullet termination (significant factor to establish dark sound)
- Copper based termination
- Very low capacitance

 

[alpha1]

My ears get fatigued with boom boom bass.

 

[srinisundar]

So that only you are selling the brand new "Sonodyne" ? which was bought by you 1 month back or any other issues.

 

[alpha1]

Here are some facts

copper = warm
silver = detailed

multistrand coppper = bright
single core copper = warmer

multistrand silver = very bright
Solid core silver = bright

Hyperlitz single core configuration = low distortion / warmer compared to regular multistrand shielded configuration cables.


For brighter sound look for one or more of these
- Silver based cable (significant factor to establish brighter sound)
- Multi-strand cable (significant factor to establish brighter sound)
- Regular termination
- WBT nextgen termination
- Silver based termination
- High capacitance

For darker sound look for one or more of these
- Copper based cable (significant factor to establish dark sound)
- single core cable in hyperlitz configuration (3 solid cores twisted around each other)
- Eichmann / ETI Bullet termination (significant factor to establish dark sound)
- Copper based termination
- Very low capacitance

I understand that higher resistance in cable = warmer sound.
Because all of the above bolded points to this only.

Considering the capacitance of the cable as constant - because that is the result of sheath/cladding and inductance as constant because of geometry/geography - the cable becomes an RLC circuit.

So yes Resistance will play an important role, copper is approx 7% more resistive than silver. But increasing the dia of copper cable by 3.5% will make its resistance equal to the silver cable.

However, I find it hard to believe that anyone can actually distinguish such minuscule changes in cable resistance! (leading to even more minuscule changes in high frequency roll off slope because of RLC)

***
Of course muti-strand cable is much better than single core for high frequencies because of skin effect - only the top "skin" of the conductor is used for conduction. But let's examine - how much.
For a 100 Hz signal - the skin depth = 6519 ?m = 6 mm
For a 10000 Hz signal - skin depth = 651.9 ?m = .6 mm
(Calculator for skin effect depth)

What is the size of single core 14 AWG conductor?
1.63 mm dia.
So this means that a single core 14 AWG cable will act like 14 AWG cable for 100 Hz signal (skin is deeper than dia).
But for 10000 Hz, the cable will act like 16 AWG (because the skin is shallow = 1.2 mm conducting).

So yes, this may cause some perceivable (and believable to me) difference in sound.
Though I am still skeptical about the effect of change in resistance, when it is so small to begin with!

 

[corElement]

However, I find it hard to believe that anyone can actually distinguish such minuscule changes in cable resistance! (leading to even more minuscule changes in high frequency roll off slope because of RLC)

When the rest of the gear on the chain are able to reveal it, you don't have to distinguish it, it's presented to you upfront.

This is a different topic all together though.

In regards to the original topic I would like to add that some amplifiers when not warmed up properly, can also cause ear fatigue.

I myself have noticed when I start up my amplifier, the first hour can cause me ear fatigue. The solution I found was to start up the amp an hour before I actually start listening to it.

This is dependent on how revealing your speakers are as well. I imagine a kevlar or paper based woofer will not sound nearly as fatiguing as a metal woofer on such an amp which needs to warm up.

 

[kingjameo]

Fatigue is caused by anything your brain doesn't like. And this is mental fatigue.

 

[joyous]

Usually, speaker with metallic tweeters have the tendency to sound harsh more. Specially if there is distortion somewhere in the audio chain (source, amplification). Metallic drivers can produce harmonics which create a lower level of ringing pattern. Such speakers may sound "detailed" to some listeners, and "bright" to others. And the moment your brain starts taking a specific sound as bright, it is likely it will cause fatigue fast.

Though it is always a matter of implementation, soft silk dome tweeters or ribbon tweeters are less likely to produce fatigue than tweeters with metallic drivers.

I guess your observations are true. Tweeter is the culprit which contributes to ear fatigue more than anything else. And I also noticed metallic tweeters cause more fatigue as they are too sharp or harsh.

 

[srinisundar]

I guess your observations are true. Tweeter is the culprit which contributes to ear fatigue more than anything else. And I also noticed metallic tweeters cause more fatigue as they are too sharp or harsh.

Why not you try out with other forum members systems before coming to an conclusions that it is too bright.

Personally think not worth selling so early... With some minor tweaks like cable/IC changing your problem can be solved.

 

[moktan]

at the risk of going OT..
music listening is an intensely subjective experience so i can only talk about myself...sometimes on public transport (bus) they play(rather blare out) latest film music- most are mind numbingly boring..the lyrics are hackneyed, the melody almost banal and everything predictable..my 'ears ache'...
now take something jarring, and poorly recorded like Coltrane's last live act The Olatunji Concert...the last track is the familiar My Favourite Thing (you can imagine the wholesome, harmlessly hypnotic melody from Sound Of Music)...this used to be Coltrane's staple..but in this concert, he bends it out of shape, chews it and takes it to very dark places (in Sound Of Music, the song is very, very sunny)..but if you listen intensely you will find incredible beauty in the agony of this music....here my ears don't ache..

 

[corElement]

Why not you try out with other forum members systems before coming to an conclusions that it is too bright.

Personally think not worth selling so early... With some minor tweaks like cable/IC changing your problem can be solved.

I agree with Srini

Also @OP metal tweeter does not automatically mean bright. And fabric tweeter does not automatically mean warm either. My d830's silk dome tweeter can probably put many a metal tweeter of similar price to shame in the brightness dept when paired badly to components that have no synergy.

 

[ranjeetrain]

metal tweeter does not automatically mean bright. And fabric tweeter does not automatically mean warm either.

No one said metal tweeters "automatically" mean bright or silk dome "automatically" means warm.

And by the same token, copper doesn't automatically or always mean warm and silver bright like I have seen you post many a times.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Why not you try out with other forum members systems before coming to an conclusions that it is too bright.

Personally think not worth selling so early... With some minor tweaks like cable/IC changing your problem can be solved.

Srini, is there something you know that others participating in this thread don't? It seems as if you are assuming a lot How do you know if he is selling for that particular reason? Or whether this thread is linked to his decision to sell? May be you or the OP should clarify, otherwise this thread will become totally OT. :lol:

To me, it sounds like a very generic topic and very generic curiosity. All the post that I have made are with that in mind. From your posts it seems like you are linking this thread with some sale of his? Is that correct?