Effects of speaker placement & Room treatment

[sound_cycle]

Moderator's note

This thread is a consolidation of all OT posts on this thread: http://www.hifivision.com/audio-vide...ne-debate.html

Interested members may continue their discussion on the above topic here.

The first and foremost thing is to get your speaker placement right. Experiment. A lot, if needed<snip>After you bear the above personal cross, you may start "tuning" your sound by using different cables

That less than perfectly positioned speaker in a not particularly conducive to good audio room bit, sadly and severely deprecates the utility of auditions (such as I managed and reported on in two cities) and also many 'net wale "reviews".

Meanwhile very recently read an article which makes pretty much the same point you make Johsua, DECWARE - Audio Paper - Room Treatments - Where do I start?

ciao
gr

 

[vivek_r]

Totally agree with your views JLS and Sound_Cycle. Apparently at the recent Bangalore What Hi Fi show, the sound created by PMC/Bel Canto room was greater than the sum of parts due to care taken with placement.

Me, I find room correction and speaker placement really expensive, factoring in the cost of a divorce! Cables are easier to hide and manage!

The Decware paper that you have put up Sound_Cycle (thank you), gives a nice clue - tired of listening to the hifi set up. Given that I listen a lot, either something is right or I am managing to live through the compromise.

Whats worse, if you change an audio component (speaker in particular), you may have to start retuning the room. Tough!

Vivek, happily married (really) and audio nut

 

[sound_cycle]

Me, I find room correction and speaker placement really expensive, factoring in the cost of a divorce! Cables are easier to hide and manage!

Speaker placement does not entail spousal wrath (with a small li(stenin)ving room and the golden mean placement all bets are off ofc).

Now if you were to use a tape, calibrated audio string and a 5mw green laser (all strongly recommended) you should get away with a laugh and a snigger or two.

You will derive rich audio benefits - for the price of spousal entertainment. (as should be obvious I speak from experience and am quite the butt of jokes regarding my apparently amusing pasttimes).

Much more if you can get some/ any reflection at the first reflection points.

Let me hasten to say that I am not assuming or implying that you have not already done these things and make these points only because you said speaker placement is expensive.

By the way the room correction bit is very invisible and in fact I have nothing to hide

Ethan Winer actually writes that comb filtering (as a consequence of less than optimal placement) is the worst evil an audiophile has to contend with

ciao
gr

 

[ttarasu]

I spend Rs.500/- in adding a sound absorbent panel to tackle only the first early reflection of my left speakers and it made me difference of night and day.
Hi Hari sir
What kind of panel and where did you purchase ?can you please share.
Thanks

 

[Hari Iyer]

I spend Rs.500/- in adding a sound absorbent panel to tackle only the first early reflection of my left speakers and it made me difference of night and day.
Hi Hari sir
What kind of panel and where did you purchase ?can you please share.
Thanks

@ ttarasu

I added this panel to the left wall as it was close to the left speaker and was causing too much of mid to mid-high freq reflection to interfere with the direct sound. Adding the panel locked the center imaging perfectly and made the left speaker completely disappear from the room.

 

[ttarasu]

Thanks
What type of panel is this?
Hope DIY
Can you share

 

[Hari Iyer]

Thanks
What type of panel is this?
Hope DIY
Can you share

Its partly diy and partly professional. My friend built his own studio for professional and commercial recordings and had plenty of balance panels with him. I picked one that was suitable from the plenty of those available. I actually wanted to add bass traps too but dared not due to WAF.

This panel is 2 feet x 4 feet and 2 inches thick. It has a wooden outer frame with a cotton type of material in the front. It has an air gap of 1inch and is very loose to touch. Its like the one you find at the auditorium.

 

[keith_correa]

What material is the panel made of?

 

[Hari Iyer]

What material is the panel made of?

Not aware looks like wood but not sure. Its just a battern on all 4 sides to hold the absorbent and facilitate mounting. Does not seem to interfer with acoustics.

 

[keith_correa]

Not aware looks like wood but not sure. Its just a battern on all 4 sides to hold the absorbent and facilitate mounting. Does not seem to interfer with acoustics.

Ah, the material over the frame is an absorber/diffuser. I thought the material was covering the actual absorbing panel.

 

[rohitmusic]

For absorbing material I yesterday saw some felt sheets (white color) maybe we can put them to good use..

I have also seen some foam like black panels with zigzag patterns used to break reflecting waves.

Good old egg crates should also work perhaps on a lighter note

 

[keith_correa]

I have also seen some foam like black panels with zigzag patterns used to break reflecting waves.

Seen where? I have seen them sold online. Bloody expensive for what they are! Bajaao sells them.

Good old egg crates should also work perhaps on a lighter note

Egg crates made of what? Plastic?

 

[rohitmusic]

@Keith - yes seen at Bajaoo and yes they are costly

Ive seen some crates made of white paper pulp - the old school way.

 

[keith_correa]

Ive seen some crates made of white paper pulp - the old school way.

Ha! Ha! Been a long time since I saw the cardboard ones in Mumbai - the large ones I mean. The small boxed ones are visible at supermarkets for packing eggs.

 

[sound_cycle]

@Keith - yes seen at Bajaoo and yes they are costly

Ive seen some crates made of white paper pulp - the old school way.

And what are they supposed to do by way of sound treatment ? Ah i get it, it is a yolk.

This

Acoustic Myths & Realities - Can Egg Cartons be used as an acoustical treatment?

or may be this

3 DIY Studio Foam Solutions that DON'T Work

may be interesting to read.

ciao
gr

 

[rajesh srinivas]

Finally i think Rigid glass wool or rock wool wins the race for the best acoustic Room treatment for HT.

anyone differs can give there views and other suggestion.

Speaker placement is a prime importance before venturing into room acoustics.

my few points..
r.s

 

[Hari Iyer]

I checked about my panel and it is made up of 'Glass Wool'.

 

[rohitmusic]

Just a hazard warning - raw glass wool is considered very dangerous if its fine particles inhaled and also may result in "khujlee"

So handle with care if you plan to use.
Instead glass wool sheets (white in color) can be used as a safer option.

 

[sound_cycle]

Finally i think Rigid glass wool or rock wool wins the race for the best acoustic Room treatment for HT.

Define "best acoustic room treatment"

You can ofc use glass or rock wool as broad band absorbers. At thicknesses that would be possible in the average home listening room (say about 4" with say and inch air gap) you might be able to absorb as low as 400 hz. That is probably quite a bit higher than your troublesome room modes

It will not do anything about your bass roomboom at those thicknesses.

You most likely will need other things besides BBA too. But I guess you already know these things.

I have no idea about room treatment for HT having different requirements, not included in my interests,

Curious Q : Apart from the imaging from two sources requirement what are the differences really ? Do room modes matter ?

ciao
gr

 

[magma]

Acoustics
with no obstrusive panels
something really small- almost invisible

( and yes it reallys works !!! )

the guy is a genius

FranckTchang.com, home of the original acoustic resonators, LiveLine cables, Tango loudspeakers and HeartSong hifi racks

the only downside
you need to be seriously patient and understand exactly what small shifts in each item does
may take almost half a year to figure out

p.S
above from a person ( namely me!) who actually uses/USED the conventional acoustic panels