Equalizer or subwoofer?

[jaudere]

Dear Friends,

This is not a DIY question as such but I need your opinion.
Have a look at the frequency response curve of the speaker in the following link.

http://www.ahujaradios.com/Literature/SK-12FRX-Z_OM.pdf

This the full ranger on my DIY open baffles. There is no filter between amp and this speaker. At top (above 10kkz), it is helped by a silk dome tweeter playing through 2.5microF cap as first order high pass filter.
The graph seems to be free air graph but my OBs are free air as well so it should apply to my OBs.

The lower mid, mid,upper mid and high frequencies are superb sounding. However, I miss the bass in some songs. So I had almost finalized to buy a subwoofer. However, looking at Frequency-response curve, I am confused.

Subwoofer: If I set the low pass filter between 80 and 100, I may get a hump around that area when I try to get good response below 80Hz. One way to tackle this could be to put a high pass filter at 150Hz for the full ranger. I do not want to do that because I would like to avoid any kind of ill effects the passive filter has on speaker response.

Equalizer: people say that extra component added in chain will always be detrimental to the sound. Equalizer may add distortion. I do not know whether this distortion will be audible or no.

However equalizers can give me a freedom of setting the frequencies that will mirror the frequency response of the full ranger. Additionally, rather than boosting frequencies below 150Hz, I will be cutting frequencies above 50 Hz, with the sliders made to mirror the speaker curve upto 150Hz.

This is what I plan to use.

NX Audio

Now My question is which would be better as per your opinion? I am not a not a bass freak and I will be happy if my speaker performs well upto 55Hz.
The sensitivity of speaker is 97 dB/w and at 55hZ, the SPL is about 80. Now that is a big difference for cutting or boosting.
My amp can give a boost of 8 dB at 50Hz and that makes sound much more pleasing. So I expect that even though the difference is 15 bd, a boost/cut of max 10dB should do the trick.

I am not going to touch equalizer beyond 10KhZ as I already have a tweeter there with good result.

Besides that, the option of equalizers is much cheaper than a good subwoofer (a difference of at least 15k).

What do you say?

 

[t.antony]

For 55Hz up you could probably use your OB with a good equalizer. I have the same driver in an H-frame guitar monitor and it can play low E of 4 string bass guitar(41Hz).

I would recommend using a pc based eq before trying out a standalone unit. Foobar has a decent equalizer. If using foobar equalizer try with the following eq settings for a start.

55Hz - 5dB boost
77Hz - 10dB boost
110Hz - 0dB
156Hz to 1.8KHz - 10dB cut
2.5KHz to 7Khz - 15dB cut
10Khz and beyond - 0dB

IIRC, sub cutoff points were below 60Hz when used in unison with my OB prototypes. Beyond that frequency, sub started to mess up the imaging.

 

[jaudere]

Thanks a lot for your support.77hz boost higher than 55hz? Any reason?

 

[t.antony]

5dB is arbitrary to prevent early bottoming out. It can be more for low level playback.

 

[jaudere]

Hi,

Thanks a lot. You have practically saved my 16k rupees at least. I am not buying that subwoofer although it was quite good.My use of subwoofer was intended purely for stereo. Integrating a sub in stereo set up is a headache and I experienced that today. After setting the equalizers the way you told, I am getting excellent bass for music. In fact i did not need the differences between various frequencies as large as you have said. The shape of whole spectrum is exactly like you have advised but the relative positions are closer than you told.

There is a nice feature in Foobar equalizers: Auto level. After I set everything and I press auto level, the slider with maximum boost is brought to zero and others are cut to maintain relative difference.

What do you say about getting external (hardware) 31 band EQ? a DBX one is available for 13k here. A good part in external equalizers is that they provide a low frequency cut of 50HZ so that the speakers will be protected from lower frequencies. I feel that the sound of speaker will also improve as it will not be made to play what it finds difficult. Will an external equalizer really result in audible distortion if I cut frequencies rather than boosting?

If I use software equalizers, I will be stuck with only my netbook as source. I use my DVD player a lot of times, including its USB facility. The other option is to get a laptop dedicated for music which will again cost at least 22k if bought new but after deleting unnecessary programs, it should boot up within 30 seconds, which is good enough and I won't have to use DVD player.

What do you say?

 

[t.antony]

Good to know it worked for you. A 31 band standalone equalizer is indeed a good investment for the purpose. For music, attenuating frequencies in the lower bands is not normally needed, but for movies, some attenuation the lower bands (20 to 50Hz) might be helpful.

If you have a decent USB sound card for your laptop, there are many free Graphic and Parametric Equalizer VST plugins available. Get this VST wrapper for Foobar first and then you are good to go - foo_vst: VST 2.4 adapter - Hydrogenaudio Forums

My vote is for the standalone equalizer. I am in the same path and thinking about getting a Behringer DEQ2496 Ultracurve PRO.

 

[jaudere]

I downloaded a 31 band equalizer for Foobar yesterday. Yet to try to properly.

At present my chain is netbook >>> Creative X fi USB sound card >>optical out >>Purepier A1 DAC >>>Amplifier.

The Behringer unit is a digital processor isn't it? So it may involve ADC and then DAC again. I need to read further. It is available on baaao.com. In general I have seen a lot of Behringer bashing in a lot of forums (like Bose is bashed here). I don't know why so.

What do you think of dBX as a pro audio equipment company?

 

[goldyrathore]

Another option would be to add a 15" driver. Why? OB/dipoles are excursion hungry. The fullrange that is used has quoted xmax of 1.5mm and will quicky run into overexcursion.

As for eq, minidsp is also one of the options that can be considered. It can do Eq and much more at less than 100$. There are many functions that you may need in future given that you are into some actual builds.

Hope it helps you decide.

Goldy

 

[jaudere]

Another option would be to add a 15" driver. Why? OB/dipoles are excursion hungry. The fullrange that is used has quoted xmax of 1.5mm and will quicky run into overexcursion.

As for eq, minidsp is also one of the options that can be considered. It can do Eq and much more at less than 100$. There are many functions that you may need in future given that you are into some actual builds.

Hope it helps you decide.

Goldy

Hi, very nice to see you back on forum. I didn't note any of your posts recently. How are you? By the way, can you elaborate more on minidsp? Is it a hardware or software? Where to get it? secondly I am banking on following logic not to damage speakers by reaching x max. : The speaker is rated at 100watt RMS. I am using 45watt RMS amplifier and on that too, the volume knob is at 9 o'clock or less. So probably I am pushing not more than 10 watts into speaker. Now there are other factors like lack of cushioning action due to OB design, input signal strength and the frequencies played that will decide excursion but I just hope that the driver does well with the 10watts that I am using.

 

[jaudere]

Well, I went through the MINi DSp concept and manual.
Seems to be a bit complicated and the settings cannot be changed as easily as a software or harware equalizer by just sliding the sliders.

 

[goldyrathore]

How are you? By the way, can you elaborate more on minidsp? Is it a hardware or software?

I am good. MiniDSP are small hardware kits for audio processing. What makes them interesting is that they can be configured with a PC and then work as standalone units. I find them very versatile though I have never used them.
This is the one I was talking about miniDSP Kits | miniDSP
See the manual for the 31 band eq.

So probably I am pushing not more than 10 watts into speaker.

Above Fs very little power is used in OB/dipole. The drivers being PA units are very sensitive too so power is not an issue. Its the excursion that is needed that may cause issues. This is the reason why most of the OBs use atleast a 15" driver or multiple 12" units per side.

Goldy

 

[jaudere]

I undersatnd your concerns. I could see the movements of the speakers after equalization when I played "yeh jo des hai tera" from Swadesh. I had never seen them moving so before I applied EQs. The initial thump touches your senses. Let me see how much this driver can handle. in fact i am looking out for 31 band EQs which also have a low frequency cut off below 50Hz, in order to protect the speakers.

 

[trittya]

If I use software equalizers, I will be stuck with only my netbook as source. I use my DVD player a lot of times, including its USB facility. The other option is to get a laptop dedicated for music which will again cost at least 22k if bought new but after deleting unnecessary programs, it should boot up within 30 seconds, which is good enough and I won't have to use DVD player.

What do you say?

@Jaudere
I say,
With that netbook, spend 1600 odd bob on an usb-optical drive(I have a Buffalo OD, does fine). Methinx you will have the best of both worlds. I have been running win7 ultimate on a 1gb RAM netbook. Goes just fine. Plus a netbook is much quieter esp during "silent passages".

HTH

 

[jaudere]

Well, I took a plunge and bought Behringer FBQ800 today as I was finding foobar equalizers bit difficult to handle. 4.9k. Of course I read lots and lots on equalizers. The only question in my mind was whether to go for 9 band or 15 or 31 band. 31 band would have been overkill as I am not into recording and 15 band not easily available. I am extremely pleased with my new purchase. Taming down the mids and uppermids (which were prominent as per my speaker curve) a bit has improved the details so fantastically. I can recognoze a lot more instruments not only in highs but in lows also.Now its more about details rather than bass. On reading a lot, I have come to opinion that everyone who does not listen to song in anechoic chamber (which includes practically everyone) needs some kind of equalization to account for room acoustics. Using equalizer is cheaper than room treatment. Flanker.R has a thread (2008) about Behringer ultracurve pro unit on our forum. Thats superb unit but costing 36k at present. Way out of my budget. T. Antony, that 2694 seems to be superb machine. Best luck for your future purchase.

 

[trittya]

Congrats on the purchase. Looking forward to learning more from your experience.

 

[jaudere]

Sure. I am trying to figure out how to paste the frequency response curve of my speaker. Once I achieve that, I will be able to explain in a better way about what I tried to do. Any suggestion about how to paste the graph here rather than just giving the link?

 

[trittya]

There is a way to embed photos here but me no much savvy on that. I think it has something to do with with the 2nd tab from right above the typing space in the quick reply box. Try pasting the URL there and see if the photo embeds. Wait, let me try it here for your new equalizer. Here goes (Fingers Xed)

EUREKA!!
There you are, Jaudere.
Good you asked or else, maybe I wouldn't have tried.
HTH

 

[jaudere]

Thanks Trittya . What I actually need is snapshot of frequency response curve of my speaker. I have given link to the speaker literature in my first post. The freq -resp curve is part of it. I am trying figure out how to paste that graph so that I can describe it. By the way, doesn't the FBQ800 look very cheap /jazzy with too many LEDs and that too of odd colours and cheap build quality? It is a complete aesthetic disaster. Good that I didn't go on external appearance and gave the unit a chance for an audition. The experience was very good where a dBX monitor speaker was used. The LEDs are very irritatting. I have covered the unit's front facia of the EQ after setting everything so that the LEDs are out of my sight while listening to music.

 

[trittya]

Thanks Trittya . What I actually need is snapshot of frequency response curve of my speaker. I have given link to the speaker literature in my first post. The freq -resp curve is part of it. I am trying figure out how to paste that graph so that I can describe it.

Its always a pleasure, mate. The link in your first post leads to a pdf document. You will have to crop that part and convert into an image. Then upload it on picasssa/imageshack or the like. Then paste the url as tried above. Should work, methinx.

By the way, doesn't the FBQ800 look very cheap /jazzy with too many LEDs and that too of odd colours and cheap build quality? It is a complete aesthetic disaster. Good that I didn't go on external appearance and gave the unit a chance for an audition. The experience was very good where a dBX monitor speaker was used. The LEDs are very irritatting. I have covered the unit's front facia of the EQ after setting everything so that the LEDs are out of my sight while listening to music.

Heh heh, I hate to say this but yes, in aesthetic terms, it does remind one of the T-series dabba systems of yore.
Perfect for a paan-shop, LOL.
But, OTOH, the aesthetics an be taken care of should it strike the gong, acoustically speaking.
Depends on what you are looking for as an alternative and how much you are willing to spend for it. That is, providing you have your mind made up on going the EQ way.
Also, you could sell it here or on quikr etc for a minor loss and go for a better equalizer at a later stage. In that case don't mess around with the looks as any mods to the fascia would entail loss in value terms. Meanwhile, all the experimenting you do and the lessons you learn should be worth the money that you lose by selling it.

BTW, Behringer, AFAIK, is known in pro audio circles, not for high quality but for rock bottom VFM. Many believe there is nothing better available at the given price point while others dismiss it as not even worth considering. I have no first hand experience here, so I cant endorse an opinion.

Nevertheless, I do believe that, I would let the interaction between my ears and my wallet be the deciding factor.

HTH

 

[jaudere]

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