Finally Acquired Garrard 301 - Seeking suggestions for various Catridge options

[vsvasan]

Hi folks,

After a long hunt,finally could get hold of Garrard 301 in Very Good Condition.TT fitted with SME 3009 Tonearm,
SME headshell & Audio Technica AT3600 MM Catridge.

My Preamp has built-in phono section with separate MM & MC inputs. Will be playing 80s & 90s (mostly ILAYARAJA & few bollywood films) LP records.Though the existing entry level AT3600 catridge provides satisfactory resolution/details,would like to upgrade to higher end MM or MC Catridge.

Prefer to go for MC Catridge as the same retrieves better resolution/details than MM Catridge.
Since my usage is for playing old LP Records ( 80 to 90% condition),whether MC catridge would
extract/produce more noise than MM catridge? Looking forward to FMs valuable feedback.

Kindly suggest various Catridge options (From $200 to 350) suitable to use with SME 3009 Tonearm & headshell.

Thanks.

Images here:

 

[finevine]

Congratulations. Welcome to the Garrard club.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Congratulations on the acquisition

 

[G401fan]

The SME 3009 Improved tonearm permits a max VTF of 1.5 gm. Not many MC cartridges track in that range. You might be better off with a good MM cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Blue, or the Audio Technica VT95 options...

Btw, the On /Off and Speed Selector buttons have been replaced. A previous owner might have broken the originals by forcing a speed change while the TT was spinning. I guess you are aware about the locking arrangement

 

[vsvasan]

The SME 3009 Improved tonearm permits a max VTF of 1.5 gm. Not many MC cartridges track in that range. You might be better off with a good MM cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Blue, or the Audio Technica VT95 options...

Btw, the On /Off and Speed Selector buttons have been replaced. A previous owner might have broken the originals by forcing a speed change while the TT was spinning. I guess you are aware about the locking arrangement

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes,it is 3009 improved tonearm.Shall look at 2M & VT 95 options.Can you suggest couple of options at MC category also

Whether MC catridge would generate more noise than MM catridge?

On/OFF & Speed slector knobs were replaced...Aware that,before changing the speed,TT should be switched off as
both the knobs are interlocked.

 

[shafic]

Hi folks,

After a long hunt,finally could get hold of Garrard 301 in Very Good Condition.TT fitted with SME 3009 Tonearm,
SME headshell & Audio Technica AT3600 MM Catridge.

My Preamp has built-in phono section with separate MM & MC inputs. Will be playing 80s & 90s (mostly ILAYARAJA & few bollywood films) LP records.Though the existing entry level AT3600 catridge provides satisfactory resolution/details,would like to upgrade to higher end MM or MC Catridge.

Prefer to go for MC Catridge as the same retrieves better resolution/details than MM Catridge.
Since my usage is for playing old LP Records ( 80 to 90% condition),whether MC catridge would
extract/produce more noise than MM catridge? Looking forward to FMs valuable feedback.

Kindly suggest various Catridge options (From $200 to 350) suitable to use with SME 3009 Tonearm & headshell.

Thanks.

Images here:

View attachment 80311


View attachment 80312View attachment 80313

Beautiful .
Congratulations.
Welcome to Garrard owners club.

 

[vsvasan]

Thanks finevine & Yelamanchili manohar

 

[arj]

Hi folks,

After a long hunt,finally could get hold of Garrard 301 in Very Good Condition.TT fitted with SME 3009 Tonearm,
SME headshell & Audio Technica AT3600 MM Catridge.

My Preamp has built-in phono section with separate MM & MC inputs. Will be playing 80s & 90s (mostly ILAYARAJA & few bollywood films) LP records.Though the existing entry level AT3600 catridge provides satisfactory resolution/details,would like to upgrade to higher end MM or MC Catridge.

Prefer to go for MC Catridge as the same retrieves better resolution/details than MM Catridge.
Since my usage is for playing old LP Records ( 80 to 90% condition),whether MC catridge would
extract/produce more noise than MM catridge? Looking forward to FMs valuable feedback.

Kindly suggest various Catridge options (From $200 to 350) suitable to use with SME 3009 Tonearm & headshell.

Thanks.

Images here:

Congratulations and Welcome to the Garrard club.

For older records, will suggest MC since it digs deeper ( for most cartridges) due to higher weight tracking but as @G401fan has mentioned please do check on the maximum Tracking possible If it is less than 1.5g then you only have MM as an option. The Nagaoka/Shure/Ortofon offerings are all good for this.

Do you know the loading of the MC section of your preamp ? my guess is it will be either 100 Ohms or 400 Ohms. if you can track upto 3g and the loading is 400 ohms then I will recommend the Denon DL103 which is a no brainer

Else the Audio technical OC9 entry level should be good with 100 Ohms loading ..these need around 2g tracking.

 

[vsvasan]

Congratulations and Welcome to the Garrard club.

For older records, will suggest MC since it digs deeper ( for most cartridges) due to higher weight tracking but as @G401fan has mentioned please do check on the maximum Tracking possible If it is less than 1.5g then you only have MM as an option. The Nagaoka/Shure/Ortofon offerings are all good for this.

Do you know the loading of the MC section of your preamp ? my guess is it will be either 100 Ohms or 400 Ohms. if you can track upto 3g and the loading is 400 ohms then I will recommend the Denon DL103 which is a no brainer

Else the Audio technical OC9 entry level should be good with 100 Ohms loading ..these need around 2g tracking.

Thanks arj.

I use mid level high end CAT SL-1 RENAISSANCE Preamplifier.Output impedance of this preamp is low : 50 Ohms.
Gain (@1kHz): Line 25.8 dB (“high”) / 15.2 dB (“low”), Phono 47dB MM / 58 dB MC
Gain Tracking: Line .05dB, Phono .05dB

Please check the complete specifications which are given below.

Below image shows rear side of the preamp,which has MM/Load Input & MC input.

Presently connected the TT (AT 3600) output to MM input.

Specs given below:
Gain (@1kHz): Line 25.8 dB (“high”) / 15.2 dB (“low”), Phono 47dB MM / 58 dB MC

Gain Tracking: Line .05dB, Phono .05dB
Frequency Response: Line 0.1Hz to 800kHz+0, -3dB, Phono RIAA +/- 0.1dB 20Hz to 20kHz (MC & MM)

Harmonic Distortion: (@ 1 volt): Line less than .0005%, Phono less than .001%
Slew Rate: Line 15 volts/microsec, Phono 10 volts/microsec

Maximum Output: (@1kHz): Line & phono 50 volts rms.

Input Overload: Line 1000 volts rms, Phono MM 250 mv rms at 1kHz, MC 70 mv rms
Noise: Line High 98 dBA, Low 109 dBA below2 volt output, Phono MM 97 dBA below 10 mv input, MC 107 dBA.

Separation: Line greater than 90 dB, Phono greater than 90 dB.

Input Impedance: Line 50 kohms, 20pf,

MM Phono 47.5 kohms, 180 pf

MC Phono 4K ohms (User adjustable)

Output Impedance: Line 100 ohms, Phono 50 ohms

Maximum Load: Line under 4000 pf, over 5000 ohms

Phono under 4000 pf, over 10,000 ohms
Below are the extracts (taken from manual) about Phono Stage Dessign Construction:
MC TRANSFORMER
There are two switches on the circuit board close to the phono inputs which you can see on the Tube Layout page. Put the switches in the “MC” position to engage the transformers and in the “MM” position to disengage.

The SL1 has a unique low gain MC step up transformer. This transformer has only 11 dB of gain as opposed to the more usual 20 to 34 dB in most MC transformers. The SL1 is already known as having the quietest vacuum tube input phono stage and so it really doesn’t NEED the traditional high gain transformers. Moreover, there are two good reasons in favor of a low gain transformer. The first reason is that a low gain transformer will have lower distortion and flatter frequency response. The second reason is that a low gain transformer will present a much higher load impedance to the cartridge. Certain cartridge brands are known to the audiophile community as being “unable” to drive an MC transformer. We have experimented with several such cartridges and find that not only can they “drive” the SL1 transformer, but they invariably sound better when the transformer is in use. We have further found that even many of the Japanese cartridges which have been specifically designed to have robust drive capability still sound better when driving our high impedance transformer.
We advise that the customer try the MC step up transformer, even if there is no obvious phono noise present. This will usually result in an increase in dynamic life (due to greater gain) and apparent increase in transparency (by allowing low level details to step clear of the noise floor).
Kindly let me know your views of using MC Catridge.

 

[arj]

Thanks arj.

I use mid level high end CAT SL-1 RENAISSANCE Preamplifier.Output impedance of this preamp is low : 50 Ohms.
Gain (@1kHz): Line 25.8 dB (“high”) / 15.2 dB (“low”), Phono 47dB MM / 58 dB MC
Gain Tracking: Line .05dB, Phono .05dB

Please check the complete specifications which are given below.

Below image shows rear side of the preamp,which has MM/Load Input & MC input.

Presently connected the TT (AT 3600) output to MM input.
View attachment 80319
Specs given below:
Gain (@1kHz): Line 25.8 dB (“high”) / 15.2 dB (“low”), Phono 47dB MM / 58 dB MC

Gain Tracking: Line .05dB, Phono .05dB
Frequency Response: Line 0.1Hz to 800kHz+0, -3dB, Phono RIAA +/- 0.1dB 20Hz to 20kHz (MC & MM)

Harmonic Distortion: (@ 1 volt): Line less than .0005%, Phono less than .001%
Slew Rate: Line 15 volts/microsec, Phono 10 volts/microsec

Maximum Output: (@1kHz): Line & phono 50 volts rms.

Input Overload: Line 1000 volts rms, Phono MM 250 mv rms at 1kHz, MC 70 mv rms
Noise: Line High 98 dBA, Low 109 dBA below2 volt output, Phono MM 97 dBA below 10 mv input, MC 107 dBA.

Separation: Line greater than 90 dB, Phono greater than 90 dB.

Input Impedance: Line 50 kohms, 20pf,

MM Phono 47.5 kohms, 180 pf

MC Phono 4K ohms (User adjustable)

Output Impedance: Line 100 ohms, Phono 50 ohms

Maximum Load: Line under 4000 pf, over 5000 ohms

Phono under 4000 pf, over 10,000 ohms
Below are the extracts (taken from manual) about Phono Stage Dessign Construction:
MC TRANSFORMER
There are two switches on the circuit board close to the phono inputs which you can see on the Tube Layout page. Put the switches in the “MC” position to engage the transformers and in the “MM” position to disengage.

The SL1 has a unique low gain MC step up transformer. This transformer has only 11 dB of gain as opposed to the more usual 20 to 34 dB in most MC transformers. The SL1 is already known as having the quietest vacuum tube input phono stage and so it really doesn’t NEED the traditional high gain transformers. Moreover, there are two good reasons in favor of a low gain transformer. The first reason is that a low gain transformer will have lower distortion and flatter frequency response. The second reason is that a low gain transformer will present a much higher load impedance to the cartridge. Certain cartridge brands are known to the audiophile community as being “unable” to drive an MC transformer. We have experimented with several such cartridges and find that not only can they “drive” the SL1 transformer, but they invariably sound better when the transformer is in use. We have further found that even many of the Japanese cartridges which have been specifically designed to have robust drive capability still sound better when driving our high impedance transformer.
We advise that the customer try the MC step up transformer, even if there is no obvious phono noise present. This will usually result in an increase in dynamic life (due to greater gain) and apparent increase in transparency (by allowing low level details to step clear of the noise floor).
Kindly let me know your views of using MC Catridge.

Really nice Phono Pre !

The important point is "MC Phono 4K ohms (User adjustable)" which means you have the flexibility for MC. Very often this is by changing loading internally via resister plugs or by internal switches. you may need to check the user guide for that.

Secondly please do confirm your tonearm can take 3g tracking weight cartridges ..this is defined by the weight at the back of the tonearm. My guess is it will take it but its a guess. If so a Denon DL103 is the best option and use it at a loading for 400 ohms .

 

[vsvasan]

Really nice Phono Pre !

The important point is "MC Phono 4K ohms (User adjustable)" which means you have the flexibility for MC. Very often this is by changing loading internally via resister plugs or by internal switches. you may need to check the user guide for that.

Secondly please do confirm your tonearm can take 3g tracking weight cartridges ..this is defined by the weight at the back of the tonearm. My guess is it will take it but its a guess. If so a Denon DL103 is the best option and use it at a loading for 400 ohms .

Thanks for your quick feedback!

You are correct! CAT Pre has internal switch.

I guess, the tonearm model is SME 3009 S2 improved.Manual of the same is attached.Pl.refer page no: 12 of 16 and
kindly let me know, what is the maximum tracking force is possible with this tonearm model.If this is 1.5,can i use MC catridge with variable
setting on the phono section of CAT Preamp? or should choose low weight MC catridge ?

 

[reubensm]

Lovely deck and tonearm, congratulations on your acquisition although I can't really say welcome to the club as I don't use Garrards anymore . My go-to cartridge for the SME 3009 Series II improved fixed head-shell tonearm has always been the Shure V15 Type III with original stock stylus. I have always used NAD preamplification. Also for better optics, at some point you may want to consider replacing the control levers with one's that have been designed for the 301. Similar ones like these are available online.

 

[arj]

Thanks for your quick feedback!

You are correct! CAT Pre has internal switch.

I guess, the tonearm model is SME 3009 S2 improved.Manual of the same is attached.Pl.refer page no: 12 of 16 and
kindly let me know, what is the maximum tracking force is possible with this tonearm model.If this is 1.5,can i use MC catridge with variable
setting on the phono section of CAT Preamp? or should choose low weight MC cartridge ?

i think you should be able to get the 3 g for the DL103. move the larger weight forward with the smaller weight at 1.5g till you get 3 g force.
fix the impedance for 400 ohms and you are good to go.
@G401fan ..you perhaps know the tonearm better ? I do have a 3010R but have not yet set it up well.

 

[G401fan]

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes,it is 3009 improved tonearm.Shall look at 2M & VT 95 options.Can you suggest couple of options at MC category also

Whether MC catridge would generate more noise than MM catridge?

On/OFF & Speed slector knobs were replaced...Aware that,before changing the speed,TT should be switched off as
both the knobs are interlocked.

I'm aware of the Audio-Technica OC9 range of cartridges - there are many models - some of which track in the 1 25 to 1.75 range. Note that you cannot play beyond 1.50 GM's on your tonearm.

Most MC cartridges cost more than your budget limit of $350. Typically 450+ at the entry level, though there are a few exceptions ( like Denon 103) but those need a higher VTF.

I would suggest that you settle for an MM for the time being, or until you upgrade your tonearm. Bollywood music ( and other Indian music) is typically recorded 'hot', with an overabundance of high frequencies. An MC cartridge would sound overbright, but an MM would be more forgiving. Many modern MMs do sound very good, and have the advantage of replaceable styli.

 

[vsvasan]

Beautiful .
Congratulations.
Welcome to Garrard owners club.

Thanks Shafic. Often come across your posts regarding Vintage gears, DIY & sale of LPs.
I have Just entered in to TT gears area.Have acquired around 250 Tamil LPs (VG) and few Hindi LPs about 5 Years ago much before buying the Turntable and my very first TT is this Garrard 301.Shall keep in touch with you. Looking forward to add more LPs in to my collection.

Lovely deck and tonearm, congratulations on your acquisition although I can't really say welcome to the club as I don't use Garrards anymore . My go-to cartridge for the SME 3009 Series II improved fixed head-shell tonearm has always been the Shure V15 Type III with original stock stylus. I have always used NAD preamplification. Also for better optics, at some point you may want to consider replacing the control levers with one's that have been designed for the 301. Similar ones like these are available online.

Thanks Reubensm.
Yes, Shure V15 type iii have rave reviews and most satisfying feedback from users across various audio forums.Shall keep this in the short list.

Have come across Classic Hifi shop web and will be replacing the knobs in some time.

i think you should be able to get the 3 g for the DL103. move the larger weight forward with the smaller weight at 1.5g till you get 3 g force.
fix the impedance for 400 ohms and you are good to go.
@G401fan ..you perhaps know the tonearm better ? I do have a 3010R but have not yet set it up well.

Thanks arj

I'm aware of the Audio-Technica OC9 range of cartridges - there are many models - some of which track in the 1 25 to 1.75 range. Note that you cannot play beyond 1.50 GM's on your tonearm.

Most MC cartridges cost more than your budget limit of $350. Typically 450+ at the entry level, though there are a few exceptions ( like Denon 103) but those need a higher VTF.

I would suggest that you settle for an MM for the time being, or until you upgrade your tonearm. Bollywood music ( and other Indian music) is typically recorded 'hot', with an overabundance of high frequencies. An MC cartridge would sound overbright, but an MM would be more forgiving. Many modern MMs do sound very good, and have the advantage of replaceable styli.

Hi G401fan,

Thanks for your suggestion & detailed explanation.

I kept adding the TT in my stereo chain as last priority as I had felt TT has more mechanical parts,require precision adjustment etc.Moreover have limited collection of around 250 LPs.

Just started to knowing more in deep about TTs about 15 days ago after decided to acquire 301 and this is my very first TT.

As I neither familiar with TTs and nor have huge collection of LPs, decided on a range of $ 350 to start with. Since your explanation provided good insights about tonearm specs,most importantly about the VTF parameter, thinking of stretching up to
$ 700 to 1K to go for low VTF MC Catridge instead of replacing tonearm + MM Catridge at later stage.Kindly suggest few MC Catridges with low VTF.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Nice deck. If possible get the non improved sme3009 ii tonearm. It is better than improved being heavier and permitting greater tracking force. The range of MC cartridges you could use will significantly expand.

 

[jls001]

Most MCs have low compliance. For a good tonearm-cartridge matching low compliance cartridge needs high effective mass of tonearm. You'll probably need a higher mass tonearm if you want to go MC.

 

[arj]

the SME 9" work pretty well with Denon from what I have seen. yes it would be even better with 12" but 9" is no slouch

 

[reubensm]

Thanks Reubensm.
Yes, Shure V15 type iii have rave reviews and most satisfying feedback from users across various audio forums.Shall keep this in the short list.

Have come across Classic Hifi shop web and will be replacing the knobs in some time.

I know I am very biased when it comes to carts as I have inherited the love for Shure from my father. Just wanted to suggest that if you ever decide to take a Shure path, make sure you collect a few OEM Shure NoS styli on the way. That will ensure you've stocked up for the rest of your listening-life. Jico makes some great styli but the OEM Shure styli (especially the American made ones) have their own charm.

 

[vsvasan]

Dear FMs,

Below Cartridges are shortlisted. Looking forward to know about your listening experience or opinion about these cartridges.
Hope,all these catridges are suitable to use with SME 3009 ii improved tonearm with SME fixed headshell.

Moving Coil with recommended tracking force of 1.5g

• Ortofon MC -30 (VTF Range : 1.3 to1.7 g)
• Ortofon MC10 (VTF Range : 1.3 to 1.8g)
• Denon DL-301 II (recommended tracking force : 1.4g)

MM with recommended tracking force of 1.5g

• Ortofon 2M Bronze (VTF Range 1.4 to1.7 g)
• Ortofon 2M Black (VTF Range 1.4 to1.7 g)
• Nagaoka MP300 (VTF Range : 1.3 to 1.8g)
• Shure V-15 Type iii (VTF Range : 0.75 to 1.25g)