Full HD Projector for living room

[rajadeep]

Just finished with the demo of the TW8100 but I am sad to say that I was not impressed at all.
I dunno why,is it because of the lack of screen(wall is blemishless and light cream in color)?
We tried playing all kind of video from a Bluray player but the pictuire was still not that great compared to an LED tv.
Also the colors looked washed out even when a little ambient light was introduced,there was no sharpness in the picture too...

Was I expecting too much?
Are there any other models that lack 3D but produce an excellent picture at my budget??

You mean something like this???

Total darkness

Pic Quality with tube light on

Pic of the room showing the amount of ambient light with tube light

By ur statements I assume you are looking for something to replace a LED TV in a ur living room? Well projector isnt an answer to that... Yes if u watch on a high gain screen(or even a normal screen) instead of a wall, the image should be better but u are probably not gonna find "LED TV" type sharpness or brightness in ambient conditions... Reason??? It all boils down to PPI(pixels per inch)... when u are pushing 1920x1080 resolution on to a 55inch screen vs a 120inch screen the 55 inch screen is always going to look sharper coz it has less than 1/4th the viewing area of the 120 inch...Also projectors rely on the concept of reflected image... That means the light coming from the projector is gonna be reflected but so is any other light present...LED TVs on the other hand(or any TVs for that matter) are the source of the light rather than the reflections... Anyway I think you should close this thread as ur search is over... Ur clear choice is a good 46-55inch LED TV.... Coz no matter how high u go up in the projector chain , a projected image is always gonna take a hit once u have ambient light... If u want to check out the best example of this go to ur fav multiplex, the one you think has the best picture quality & look at the PQ which the lights are on(like then they say intermission,go get ur popcorn etc etc)... If costly 30-40-50 lacs Theatre projectors cant match the brightness or sharpness of a LED TV in ambient light I dont know y u think a 1-1.5 lac home theatre projector is gonna match it...

PS there are special screens that u can use that would be able to give u a TV like effect but they cost a bomb($3000-4000 for a 100 inch screen)... Like this
Screen Innovations Commercial Screens - YouTube

Black Diamond Projector Screen Family Room - YouTube

 

[vinay]

Once you take the demo in a proper room with projector + screen then there is no question that you will not like the projector's video image quality. Please be assured watching movies via projector is very good.

With ambient light too the picture quality will be quite good to a extent that one can watch gladly full movie, it all depends where those lights are placed and what type they are and needles to say screen should be a decent one.

V.

Just finished with the demo of the TW8100 but I am sad to say that I was not impressed at all.
I dunno why,is it because of the lack of screen(wall is blemishless and light cream in color)?
We tried playing all kind of video from a Bluray player but the pictuire was still not that great compared to an LED tv.
Also the colors looked washed out even when a little ambient light was introduced,there was no sharpness in the picture too...

 

[fragpic]

You mean something like this???

Total darkness

Pic Quality with tube light on

Pic of the room showing the amount of ambient light with tube light

By ur statements I assume you are looking for something to replace a LED TV in a ur living room? Well projector isnt an answer to that... Yes if u watch on a high gain screen(or even a normal screen) instead of a wall, the image should be better but u are probably not gonna find "LED TV" type sharpness or brightness in ambient conditions... Reason??? It all boils down to PPI(pixels per inch)... when u are pushing 1920x1080 resolution on to a 55inch screen vs a 120inch screen the 55 inch screen is always going to look sharper coz it has less than 1/4th the viewing area of the 120 inch...Also projectors rely on the concept of reflected image... That means the light coming from the projector is gonna be reflected but so is any other light present...LED TVs on the other hand(or any TVs for that matter) are the source of the light rather than the reflections... Anyway I think you should close this thread as ur search is over... Ur clear choice is a good 46-55inch LED TV.... Coz no matter how high u go up in the projector chain , a projected image is always gonna take a hit once u have ambient light... If u want to check out the best example of this go to ur fav multiplex, the one you think has the best picture quality & look at the PQ which the lights are on(like then they say intermission,go get ur popcorn etc etc)... If costly 30-40-50 lacs Theatre projectors cant match the brightness or sharpness of a LED TV in ambient light I dont know y u think a 1-1.5 lac home theatre projector is gonna match it...

PS there are special screens that u can use that would be able to give u a TV like effect but they cost a bomb($3000-4000 for a 100 inch screen)... Like this
Screen Innovations Commercial Screens - YouTube

Black Diamond Projector Screen Family Room - YouTube

Which PJ is in the pictures?
I was interested at first to get a 46 LED but I wanted a larger screen for my money,for which I am willing to sacrifice a bit.
The demo guy left the projector at home so I had an other go at it with my own content and settings from the net and I must say the picture improved a lot.But after experiencing the 3d,I dont think I need it....

Are there any other PJs without 3D(but 2D image should be better than the 8100) at my budget?

 

[sribuddy]

chaitu,

Please take this from me as a owner of TW6100. this projector will definitely serve well in less to no ambient lighting. pretty well I should say, 2d brightness is really good and 3d is very good indeed. Now, I dont want you to take a decision on this, Panny is also equally good.
Having said that, a projector cannot in any means replace a TV viewing for sharpness. Some projectors can compete for clarity and brightness though. Also, do not try to replace TV for a projector.
Please set up a basic TV for SD content and projector for SD content.

Panny and EPSON both are good to me personally. In case if you wish to you in dark room (always), Mits 4000 is awesome... my god, what clarity...

Let me help you here:- If you have a dedicated room, where you can control light, and DLP is not an issue, go straight for HC4000.

If you are towards high lumen output, no DLP, a little more ambient light, go for EPSON

Else, Panny....

Just my 2 cents.

 

[rajadeep]

The projector used in these pics is my own Epson 8500UB(2010 top model for epson & the predecessor to TW8100)... I bought it recently from the US for $1100... The renovation of my house is dues so still havent bought a screen & I am presently watching on a Cream colored wall... I took some pics for reference & uploaded them into albums on rajadeep's albums - Imgur ... The pics are divided according to the conditions they were clicked in ie
1)Daytime with curtains closed 120inch screen size
2)Daytime with curtains open 120inch screen size
3)Night time with tubelight off 150inch screen size
4)Night time with tubelight on 150inch screen size

Out of all these scenarios, the only time I found the pic quality less than outstanding was in the daytime with curtains open... If I closed the curtains the PQ was outstanding as u can see in the pics...Mind u the quality in real life is better than these pics as these pics were taken my by lousy iPhone 3GS camera... Anyway coming back to ur situation what u could do is buy a 50 inch plasma or a 46 inch LED for 55k, buy a $700 1080p or $400-450 720p projector from the US through ur cousin & buy a 15k motorized 120inch screen from pioneer... Total will still be within ur budget & u will get the best of both worlds... Big screen exp for movies & sports & normal day to day viewing on a decent plasma or LED... In this case the suggestions for products would be
1)$700 projector :- Acer H6500 or Viewsonic pro8200
2)55k LED will be Toshiba 46 inch PS20 which has excellent quality or in plasmas the choice would be 50 inch Panny X50 or samsung E470...

 

[sribuddy]

Rajadeep. fully agreed. 8350 is awesome. I know that these pics dont do any justice at all. I will try to post some pics off 6100 today or tomorrow of some blu ray with screen. i think that should help Chaitu.

 

[rajadeep]

Rajadeep. fully agreed. 8350 is awesome. I know that these pics dont do any justice at all. I will try to post some pics off 6100 today or tomorrow of some blu ray with screen. i think that should help Chaitu.

Ya 8350 is a pretty good projector but the one that I have is not a 8350 but a 8500UB... 8350 has a contrast ratio of 50000:1 where as the 8500UB has a contrast ration of 200000:1 & is THX certified... The UB in the name stands for Ultra Black mainly coz this line of projectors have the best black lvls in its class... Actually according to most reviews to find better black lvl performance one would have to spend more than double of what the epson costs...
Epson Home Cinema 8500 UB Projector Review

Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 Review

 

[sribuddy]

Rajadeep, Im sorry... you are right.. I misread the model in your reply.. my bad...

Thanks for correcting me... Yes, this is a awesome model as well.

 

[yrk1969]

Ya 8350 is a pretty good projector but the one that I have is not a 8350 but a 8500UB... 8350 has a contrast ratio of 50000:1 where as the 8500UB has a contrast ration of 200000:1 & is THX certified... The UB in the name stands for Ultra Black mainly coz this line of projectors have the best black lvls in its class... Actually according to most reviews to find better black lvl performance one would have to spend more than double of what the epson costs...
Epson Home Cinema 8500 UB Projector Review

Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 Review

I agree with rajdeep that you should think about an LED if you are comparing its sharpness/brightness with a projector in a living room. A projector needs all the help you can give it in terms of room ambient light and screen selection.

When it comes to ambient light, a projector performance goes down dramatically when compared to LED/Plasma. The "quoted contrast" figures of 200,000:1 or even 25,000:1 are all destroyed by room lighting. Consider this working, which I came across in avsforums and think seems fine, though I am no expert:

Take 200,000:1 contrast figure and assume the projector puts out 2000 lumen. This implies that if brightest image is 2,000 lumen then the darkest would be 2,000/200,000 = 0.01 lumen. So the darkest image would be at 0.01 lumen.

Now add a light source to the room which adds overall 10 lumen on the screen. Note that normal tubelights put out 100s of lumens as I read, so 10 lumens is very very low light. Then the brighest image becomes 2,000 + 10 = 2,010 lumens and darkest becomes 0.01 + 10 = 10.01 lumens.

And finally the contrast ratio is now 2,010 / 10.01 = 200.799 : 1

Just adding 10 lumens light brought down the contrast from 200,000 : 1 to 200 : 1, a drop of thousand times.

Even if the projector had a contrast of 25,000 : 1, and 2,000 lumens output, then also by adding 10 lumens ambient light you will get 2,010 / 10.08 = 199.404 : 1.

In net two projectors with 200,000 and 25,000 contrast ratios end up at almost equal 200 contrast ratio in minimal ambient light. What this seems to imply is in front of ambient light a high end vs mid end projector will not make much difference if contrast is ratio is considered. Though there may be other benefits.

I hope an expert like manoj.p can corroborate this working.

 

[yrk1969]

PS there are special screens that u can use that would be able to give u a TV like effect but they cost a bomb($3000-4000 for a 100 inch screen)... Like this
Screen Innovations Commercial Screens - YouTube

Black Diamond Projector Screen Family Room - YouTube

Forgot to add that I use one these Black Diamond screens, and to me the picture is almost plasma like. I also must add that though its in my living room, the walls are wood paneled with a very dark brown shade.

Another screen like this is Supernova from dnp. I think vinay uses that.

 

[prosenjit]

projector maintanace mangta hai.one cannot expect just running it and expecting a led tv like image.yes it will give you so.
rajadeep already explained...just imagine the super expensive projectors in multiplexes..how they look in interval time...unwanted lights kill even the costliest pj images..
1.darken all walls and celing also if possible except the screen area to avoid stray refelection.there are many methods acording to budget
2.control outside light by heavy double/triple curtains.use paint/black chart paper to darken glass if there is glass in windows/window panels
no use of refective/very light colored furnitures
3.use a decent if not exccelent screen
4.very imp....use solid materials...real hi res ones


belive me you will never use a tv once you are just set into a big screen exp

 

[just4kix]

@chaitu, Projector cannot be and will never be a replacement for TV. Projector will complement the HT and is best suited to watch movies, especially in a special room. For watching daily TV, stick to a TV. To watch TV on projector is very inconvenient, to say the least. For one, if you install projector in the living room, can you keep it dark all the time?

 

[fragpic]

Thank you guys for the help,so what do you guys suggest finally.
Should I just get a 55 inch tv and adujst with the small size
or should i get the projector and adjust with the low sharpness and brightness

Which is the bigger trade off?
The viewing distance is 20feet so I really cannot adjust with a 55 inch tv.
Can you guys suggest any alternative solution for my problem
My budget is 1.5- 2lakhs

 

[prosenjit]

get a 25k 32 inch tv and get a 1.4 lakh epson 8100...or simlilar ones
and decide what programmes and materials to be watched in tv and what in projector...
its not very seroius issue as you do have a good budget.
no problem getting a 32 incher at 25k..........extra.
now this is my perosnal opinion.
someones may be different..yours may be more different.we all have different thinkings.
if 32 inch is too small for you then cut budget in pj and get 6100/similar and get a xt plasma panasonic 50 incher at 52k........
55 inch led will cut the budget drastivcally and tv projector both will cross your present budget.......or make you compromise in model/make/qualiyt

this opinion is also mine only.......

 

[manoj.p]

Chaitu,

Although the Epson is not as sharp as an LED, its not soft at all. If you put up a sharpness pattern, you will find that its sharpness is just right. Not overprocessed like an LED/LCD tv. The TV's in showrooms are set at scorching contrast/sharpness levels. A projector will not have that kind of sharpness but it will be the soothing, just right sharpness just like a movie theater. Also, if you compare, normal tv programs will have more sharpness compared to a movie even on the TV's.

Anyway, I am quite surprised that you are not blown away by the Epson demo. I wonder if the wall on which you projected as all smooth or had any texture to it. A bad LCD panel convergence on the demo unit can be a cause too. But I am doubtful Epson would send a bad unit for demo.

As an alternative, see if you can get a demo of a single chip dlp projector. That will not have any convergence issues.

 

[jithudigitised]

@chaitu.genius

i had a demo of the Epson 8100 in an HT store on this Saturday (sorry for this late reply..hehe). It was on an newly opened HT store in my hometown Trivandrum.

The demo was in their superbly setup demo room with no light. They were using a fixed screen for the demo (Dont remember its name though) And it was an 100 inch screen.

i had asked them to put the Final Destination 5 and Rise of the apes scenes with some scenes from Avatar blurays.

BTW its a huge projector.

When they switched on the projector and the demo was started and i was seriously blown away.It had more clarity than any of the cinema halls that i had gone. To me, the picture clarity was no less to the my 32 " LED at home.

I actually thought of watching the 3 whole movies..hehe But he stopped the demo as soon as the scenes are over. Hmm . I didn't ask him to put any other input as i dropped my wife and kid in the shopping mall and it had been already 1.5 hours (More time they are there, less chance i have to buy a projector. hehe)

Other devices used were

Bluray Player - Denon
Speakers - Jamo
Chairs - Recliners

So please take a demo of the projector with a proper screen before you skip this projector.

 

[Saket]

Hello guys,

Liked the discussion and I hold the view that pj cannot replace the TV; not only because of the sharpness, but also due to the ease & convenience of operating as well as viewing a TV.

PJ watching should be a 'niche experience' and only taken for serious viewing sessions like for a HD movie or documentaries, etc. Sports through the PJs look damn impressive...but of course has to be in HD via STB.

I agree with Prosenjit that you have a very decent budget, so you should opt for an LCD/LED TV for regular viewing, esp SD content while you reserve your PJ for those fabulous late night movies & other serious viewing sessions. Please don't interchange the devices as both have different things to offer.

Regards.

 

[fragpic]

I already have a 32inch lcd tv so I dont think I need to buy another TV.
Also my tv viewing is very less(i.e 1 hour a day max)
Mostly it will be used to watch movies and sports only(HD STB btw)
so I think I will get the 8100.Parents are also almost convinced.
Getting it for 1.3lac.
Which screen do you recommend?Motorized or pull down both are fine.Budget is 20K.
My dad already has a Draper Baronet screen from his office(bought for 40K a few years back),how do you think it will perform?As using this screen will save me money.

 

[digikid]

Check this DIY projector. (I have not built it, but should work)
Check your lens to screen distance, and what scene size you need.
G&P Optoelectronics GmbH & Co. KG

 

[fragpic]

@All
Thanks for your taking your time and helping me out but alas my mother was extremely adamant on getting a TV as her saas bahu serials were not in HD and they looked like crap on the projector.
Went ahead and bought a Samsung 64" E8000 TV.
Dad & I planned a dedicated HT room for the projector so will definitely get a projector but its going to take time..

Thanks to everyone once again