Garrard 301 oil bearing motor

[bhaskarcan]

Hi all,

This is about my Garrard 301 sch 2 oil bearing TT. Is it normal for the motor to get little hot ? There is no problem with performance & it runs ok for hours. Also when I remove the platter & turn on the motor there is a very low purring noise which is normally not comprehendable from outside with the platter on. I have carried out the following checks:

1) The transit clamp is fully loosened.
2) The idler wheel is locating square on the pulley without the idler wheel rubbing the above or below step on the pulley.
3) Motor mounting screws are all tight.
4) Motor is balanced properly. Moving the motor while rotating does not change the pitch of the noise.
5) The pulley, idler and inner running side of the platter are all cleaned.
6) There is no play of the idler shaft.
7) The noise still exists with the idler wheel removed.

Is this noise normal? Is it required to oil the motor? If so what is the procedure?

All the gurus out there awaiting ur suggestion.

Thanx

Bhaskar

 

[sachu888]

Hi all,

This is about my Garrard 301 sch 2 oil bearing TT. Is it normal for the motor to get little hot ? There is no problem with performance & it runs ok for hours. Also when I remove the platter & turn on the motor there is a very low purring noise which is normally not comprehendable from outside with the platter on. I have carried out the following checks:

1) The transit clamp is fully loosened.
2) The idler wheel is locating square on the pulley without the idler wheel rubbing the above or below step on the pulley.
3) Motor mounting screws are all tight.
4) Motor is balanced properly. Moving the motor while rotating does not change the pitch of the noise.
5) The pulley, idler and inner running side of the platter are all cleaned.
6) There is no play of the idler shaft.
7) The noise still exists with the idler wheel removed.

Is this noise normal? Is it required to oil the motor? If so what is the procedure?

All the gurus out there awaiting ur suggestion.

Thanx

Bhaskar

Hi,
PM G401fan in this forum he has a good knowledge of Garrard TTs also post new thread in Gerrard forum in vinylengine and Audiokrma.This will help.

Regards,

Sachin

 

[G401fan]

Hello,
There should not be any motor noise if all's well. Garrard 301s and 401s were originally designed for radio stations where they'd be in operation continuously, often 24/7, 365 days a year. It's likely that the motor needs a touch of oil, the procedure for which is detailed in the manual, which is available on vinylengine.com.

It's quite simple really. With the motor off, and using something like Singer's machine oil, let a few drops drip through any one of the three holes in the eddy current wheel (the aluminium disc just below the motor spindle). Don't put more than 6-7 drops. The oil will seep through the rivets on top of the motor cap. Remember to wipe away any oil that might have landed on the spindle or on the idler wheel. Hopefully, the motor will start to spin smoothly after that.

If not, there could be some dirt, or insect residue (I had the latter problem with my 301, which had been in its original box for 53 years) that is causing the noise, which may not go away with plain oiling. You would need then to open the motor, at least its lower half. This is not as difficult as it seems, but it would need the assistance of a second person. I won't go into details here, as there are many online links that show you how it's done, with pictures. Once it's open from the bottom, spray the shaft with WD-40 while turning the spindle by hand. My own 301 made an almighty racket when I first switched it on, there being so much gunk inside. Once the WD-40 had done its magic, it was, and remains, smooth as silk.
with regards,

 

[sachu888]

Hello,
There should not be any motor noise if all's well. Garrard 301s and 401s were originally designed for radio stations where they'd be in operation continuously, often 24/7, 365 days a year. It's likely that the motor needs a touch of oil, the procedure for which is detailed in the manual, which is available on vinylengine.com.

It's quite simple really. With the motor off, and using something like Singer's machine oil, let a few drops drip through any one of the three holes in the eddy current wheel (the aluminium disc just below the motor spindle). Don't put more than 6-7 drops. The oil will seep through the rivets on top of the motor cap. Remember to wipe away any oil that might have landed on the spindle or on the idler wheel. Hopefully, the motor will start to spin smoothly after that.

If not, there could be some dirt, or insect residue (I had the latter problem with my 301, which had been in its original box for 53 years) that is causing the noise, which may not go away with plain oiling. You would need then to open the motor, at least its lower half. This is not as difficult as it seems, but it would need the assistance of a second person. I won't go into details here, as there are many online links that show you how it's done, with pictures. Once it's open from the bottom, spray the shaft with WD-40 while turning the spindle by hand. My own 301 made an almighty racket when I first switched it on, there being so much gunk inside. Once the WD-40 had done its magic, it was, and remains, smooth as silk.
with regards,

See I told you.Hope your problem has been solved

Regards,

Sachin

 

[bhaskarcan]

G401fan,

Thanks a lot for ur kind advice. Being busy whole day, could not access net. Will put oil tomorrow & let u know the result. Just one question, can the lower part of the motor be opened up without removing the whole unit frm its mounting?

Sachin,

Thank u very much. Just pray the problem gets solved.


Bhaskar

 

[G401fan]

Hi Bhaskar,

It's much easier to remove the lower cover of the motor, than to remove the entire assembly, which is what you'll need to do to open the upper half. Not something that I would attempt myself, as there is much too much disassmembly to handle: 6 springs, the eddy disc, the spindle portion that controls the speed. Yes, there are guides to do it on the 'net, but, it's the putting it back together that I'd fear more. Anyway, you don't really need to do the entire job, as removing the lower cover is sufficient for basic cleaning - it's a clamshell assembly with an upper and a lower cover.

All you need to do is remove the three lower springs from the end where they connect to the turntable frame. There are three circlips to detach, then push the little rod holding each spring through, and you're done. After that, using a set of needlenose pliers, remove the two nuts on each side of the motor shell. That's all, and the innards are exposed. The lower cap will hang alongside, as there are cables attached to the inner coils that will keep it dangling. Use the WD-40 to bathe the sucker, and get gravity to loosen out any dirt that might be inside - it will drip out with the excess WD-40.

You will need to remove the platter, and upend the TT, with some sort of jig to hold it aloft, while you're opening the lower half of the motor. And someone will need to be on hand to hold the frame steady while you remove the springs, and when you're putting them back. And when you're doing the WD-40 bit, you'll need to turn the TT back at an angle or fully 180 degrees for the drip segment.

Go for it, if you have to. If you're lucky, the basic oil treatment might do the trick.
regards,

 

[bhaskarcan]

G401fan,

Thanks for a prompt & detailed reply. Will try the oil part first. Knowledge of opening the lower motor cover will give me extra confident about my 301, as u rightly said that mounting back the motor is realy the tricky part which I was afraid of.

Thanks & Best regards,

Bhaskar

 

[bhaskarcan]

Hi G401fan,

Today oiled the motor spindle with Singer sewing machine oil. The noise is reduced but still can hear a very slight purrr if take my ear very close to the motor. Nothing can be heard with the platter on. Do u think I shud carry out WD-40 cleaning also?

Thanks & Best regards,

Bhaskar

 

[G401fan]

Hi Bhaskar,

Nice to hear that the motor noise is reduced; clearly it might have been dry for a longish time. You could try running the motor for a few hours - no need to play an LP simultaneously - and then add a few more drops of oil, and run it in again. The light purr might just reduce further. If the faint sound does not bother you, you could stop at that, presuming that you don't have any speed issues. Else, you could experiment with opening the motor.

One other thing: A couple of days back, a local poster on an international Garrard forum, while seemingly referring to this thread, has made the imputation that WD-40 has been suggested as a lubricating agent. Nothing could be further from the truth, as I've recommended its usage purely to clean out any gunk that might have gotten into the motor. If at all you do open the motor, and once the WD-40 job is done, you will need to use the machine oil once again to keep it running smoothly.

with regards,

 

[bhaskarcan]

Hello G401fan,

Thanks again for ur Reply. Today I opened the lower casing. Except for removing the circlips, it was not so difficult. And of course I kept printouts of ur earlier posts & 301 user manual handy during the whole time for ready reference. Anyway as u mentioned the inside of the motor was full of dirt. I covered the lower bearing with celotape & blowed the motor frm under side using a powerfull handheld blower. This took out lots of debris. Next I used WD-40 as u instructed. Some more dirt came out & then it was clean. Used sewing machine oil soaked lint free cotton swab to first clean the lower bearing. Surprisingly the lower bearing also had some dirt that made the swab dirty. Next soaked it with a freshly oiled cotton swab for some time. Then after letting the whole thing dry for couple of hour, boxed everything back. Switched it on & everything is smooth. NO NOISE whatsoever :yahoo:. Kept it running for half an hour without the platter for the bearing to settle down.

Is the lubricating of lower bearing ok with the machine oil soaked cotton swab? B'cos others are talking about replenishment/ filling of lower bearing with motor oil (which I suppose is nothing but lube oil used in car). Then again cud not make out how to content the oil when boxing the motor with TT upturned.

In ur last post u have suggested - "once the WD-40 job is done, you will need to use the machine oil once again to keep it running smoothly". Can u elaborate a little on this, where u want me to put the machine oil? Below the idler wheel or inside the motor? I have no problem opening the motor one more time if required, as I have not attached the circlips yet.

Thanks & Best regards,

Bhaskar

 

[G401fan]

Hi Bhaskar,

It's great to hear that you got the job done and that it was really worthwhile, given the fact that there was indeed a good deal of dirt inside. I had the very same experience, as some insects had taken residence inside and left a lot of residue. Also, my motor has been also silky smooth ever since I did the clean-up operation.

The lower bearing also needs cleaning and you did the right thing by swabbing it with oil. The problem with the 301 motor is that it has openings on the lower clamshell, which allows (in our climate) a lot of dust in over a period of time. The 401 motor is fully closed making it less vulnerable to such problems.

I don't think you need to open the motor again to do a fresh oil job. Use the directions given in the manual, as I'd described earlier. Depending on your usage of the TT, you can re-oil the motor every 6 months to 1 year. And you may, also, never need to re-open the motor again.

Cheers!

 

[quad]

Oiling with a cotton swab should be fine.

The motor bearing will usually be a sintered bronze or similar material.
Thanks to the pores in it, it will absorb a lot of oil and hence stay
lubricated for a long time. The initial cleaning with WD-40 will
remove any dirt from the bearings and then you can add some oil,
then clean it, and then oil again, so that any residual WD-40 will be removed.

When I lubed my Dual motor, I found the motor bearing absorbs a
lot of oil. I poured in a small capful, and then it was nearly
all absorbed. I cleaned up the remaining oil with a swab. I guess
whatever you refer to is similar.

ThermoPore-Sintered Bronze

 

[Shivam]

Be careful with WD-40. Instead of lubricating as is usually thought of, this will tend to dry away whatever lubricant there might be.

WD-40 is actually meant to remove any traces of moisture and oil. This is mainly used for cleaning. It acts as a lubricant only as long as the base is not dried out, which in a dry climate takes around 1-2 days.

Use WD-40 only for cleaning and then use a lubricant after around 2 days. For turntable moving parts I use a bicycle chain lubricant called 'Finish line Ceramic wet lubricant'.

 

[Hiten]

I have seen some Philips TT motors they had felt like thing above the bushing which holds the lubricants, have not seen garrard motors but they might have them. Best way would be to open the motor clean with wd-40 wipe clean dry parts and lubricate them. As thin layer of WD-40 might not hold lubricant effectively.
Addition : Oh! I see most of the points are already posted. Sorry for repeating them. Interesting to know about sintered bronze.