Going down the Computer Audio rabbit hole -- wish me luck :)

[essrand]

Almost all the brands including most of big brands you mentioned and other are using Rpi4 as streamer in their streamer/DAC.

I might be wrong but probably dCS, Lumin and a few other are using their own boards.

Would be interesting to find out what makes their Rpi streamers better than an home-brewed tweaked picoplayer in an Rpi4.

On a slightly different track, did you by any chance try the coaxial input in your dac. I found a huge difference between usb and coaxial input in my dac. Since the coaxial was way better off.

My DAC supports DSD only over USB. Also in no mood to buy yet another cable (and stress about its sound signature)

 

[manueljenkin]

Add some more to the list. Antelope, MyTek. Pehaps also Meridian.

From what I know, mytek has the option for a custom network card input in their dacs. The card alone costs 1000$ or so.

Meridian is one of my favourite companies when it comes to digital audio, I am curious to know how they approach this.

Would be interesting to find out what makes their Rpi streamers better than an home-brewed tweaked picoplayer in an Rpi4.

Raspberry pi4 and raspberry pi4 compute are not the same. The compute module just comes with the cpu, ram and basic power management in the form of an ic around which you can make your device around. Allo Sparky was based on raspberry pi3 compute, but they had a 6 layer pcb or something and custom low noise supply at the usb outputs.

 

[essrand]

On a slightly different track, did you by any chance try the coaxial input in your dac. I found a huge difference between usb and coaxial input in my dac. Since the coaxial was way better off.

This is what the docs about my DAC say:
The TUBE DAC is equipped with extensive connection possibilities, allowing integration in all types of domestic and professional systems. It is particularly suited to computer environments thanks to its new generation audio USB input, through which it receives signals up to the DSD 256 format from a PC or MAC.

 

[shyamv]

My observations on RPi based streamers vs Others below. Disclaimer - YMMV!

Over the last 2+ years, I have tried out three RPi based streamers - Allo Digione Signature (RPi 3 based with Coax and BNC), Allo USBridge Signature (RPi compute module based with USB), Hifiberry Digi+ (RPi 3b plus Hifiberry HAT over Coax). Of these Hifiberry was marginally better than a Chromecast Audio. I don't think it compares well with the other Rpi streamers and I shall set this aside in this discussion. Both the Signature variants of Allo products were powered by an Allo Shanti LPS. No other USB regen, reclockers, power conditioners etc were used with Allo Signature streamer except for grounding Allo to LPS to DAC in a star configuration as recommend by Allo. Volumio was the only software used with Tidal as the source.

I have also compared the above at different times with the following 'Branded' streamers - Audiolab 6000N, Bluesound Node 2i, Pro-ject S2 Streambox Ultra (RPi compute module based with a white-labelled ver of Volumio), Cambridge Audio CXN V2, Bricasti M5(RPi compute module based) and Lumin T1. While this is not a scientific A/B/X comparison, I remember that I had used all of these products as a streamer only, connected to a a relatively modest Pro-ject Pre S2 Digital DAC($599) mostly via Coax wherever available. These were evaluated over a period of 2+ years, so my musical memory might have also played a role here. I had owned all of these at one point in time except Lumin T1 which was borrowed.

Of the above streamers, only Lumin T1 stood heads and shoulder above the Allo Signature Streamers. Bluesound Node 2i, Audiolab 6000N, Bricasti M5(Surprise!!) were clearly several steps below in terms of all parameters. Pro-ject Streambox S2 Ultra was very similar sounding, maybe a little more musical but this could be my memory playing tricks. CXN V2 was more transparent and detailed but somehow not that engaging.

Needless to say, CXN V2, AL 6000N, Node 2i and Lumin T1 are streamers+DACs. So the results might be different if one were to compare Allo with a price-matched standalone streamer.

I find John Westlake designs at Pro-Ject to be very good and offer great value for money. Most of their products sell for the same price point equivalent Allo products and they have a huge community support as well. Availability in India is an issue though.

However for any computer-based music, Allo products are extremely well-designed and offer tremendous value for money. Their attention to reducing noise, jitter, interface etc in all aspects related to power, audio signal, RF etc is really commendable. I am not saying that there are better than every other streamer but I believe one must spend atleast 3-4X to get anything significantly better. Yes, they are a little fiddly and need someone who can tinker with SW. Of course the fact that it offers flexibility wrt SW is a big selling point for me but this might get too much for someone new to all of this. However, the end-result is very good especially considering the very little money one needs to spend. And they are made just a few kms from where I live!

I am of the opinion now that unless I can spend upwards of $2500 on a streamer, I shall stick to my Allo Signature Streamers.

 

[sathtom]

@shyamv : Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation and observations. I am tempted to try Allo Digione Signature just by reading your single post..

 

[fLUX]

My observations on RPi based streamers vs Others below. Disclaimer - YMMV!

Over the last 2+ years, I have tried out three RPi based streamers - Allo Digione Signature (RPi 3 based with Coax and BNC), Allo USBridge Signature (RPi compute module based with USB), Hifiberry Digi+ (RPi 3b plus Hifiberry HAT over Coax). Of these Hifiberry was marginally better than a Chromecast Audio. I don't think it compares well with the other Rpi streamers and I shall set this aside in this discussion. Both the Signature variants of Allo products were powered by an Allo Shanti LPS. No other USB regen, reclockers, power conditioners etc were used with Allo Signature streamer except for grounding Allo to LPS to DAC in a star configuration as recommend by Allo. Volumio was the only software used with Tidal as the source.

I have also compared the above at different times with the following 'Branded' streamers - Audiolab 6000N, Bluesound Node 2i, Pro-ject S2 Streambox Ultra (RPi compute module based with a white-labelled ver of Volumio), Cambridge Audio CXN V2, Bricasti M5(RPi compute module based) and Lumin T1. While this is not a scientific A/B/X comparison, I remember that I had used all of these products as a streamer only, connected to a a relatively modest Pro-ject Pre S2 Digital DAC($599) mostly via Coax wherever available. These were evaluated over a period of 2+ years, so my musical memory might have also played a role here. I had owned all of these at one point in time except Lumin T1 which was borrowed.

Of the above streamers, only Lumin T1 stood heads and shoulder above the Allo Signature Streamers. Bluesound Node 2i, Audiolab 6000N, Bricasti M5(Surprise!!) were clearly several steps below in terms of all parameters. Pro-ject Streambox S2 Ultra was very similar sounding, maybe a little more musical but this could be my memory playing tricks. CXN V2 was more transparent and detailed but somehow not that engaging.

Needless to say, CXN V2, AL 6000N, Node 2i and Lumin T1 are streamers+DACs. So the results might be different if one were to compare Allo with a price-matched standalone streamer.

I find John Westlake designs at Pro-Ject to be very good and offer great value for money. Most of their products sell for the same price point equivalent Allo products and they have a huge community support as well. Availability in India is an issue though.

However for any computer-based music, Allo products are extremely well-designed and offer tremendous value for money. Their attention to reducing noise, jitter, interface etc in all aspects related to power, audio signal, RF etc is really commendable. I am not saying that there are better than every other streamer but I believe one must spend atleast 3-4X to get anything significantly better. Yes, they are a little fiddly and need someone who can tinker with SW. Of course the fact that it offers flexibility wrt SW is a big selling point for me but this might get too much for someone new to all of this. However, the end-result is very good especially considering the very little money one needs to spend. And they are made just a few kms from where I live!

I am of the opinion now that unless I can spend upwards of $2500 on a streamer, I shall stick to my Allo Signature Streamers.

Thanks for the writeup Shyam, this is something I was curious to know too on the incremental value across the price range for streamers if we totally ignored the UI/UX component of the platform apps & inbuilt DACs.

I had a Node 2i in the past and after getting an external DAC found the PW Link to do an equally good job as a streamer (sans the good UI/UX) , but was wondering if there is any benefit of moving incrementally up the chain just for streaming functionality and looks like there is not much to look forward on this side and if one is to focus on better components , the value would be more higher up the chain ?

 

[shyamv]

Thanks for the writeup Shyam, this is something I was curious to know too on the incremental value across the price range for streamers if we totally ignored the UI/UX component of the platform apps & inbuilt DACs.

I had a Node 2i in the past and after getting an external DAC found the PW Link to do an equally good job as a streamer (sans the good UI/UX) , but was wondering if there is any benefit of moving incrementally up the chain just for streaming functionality and looks like there is not much to look forward on this side and if one is to focus on better components , the value would be more higher up the chain ?

I don't know enough to comment as my listening has been restricted to a very small sample size. But I can say a couple of things with a some degree of conviction wrt streamers.

1) With most products that are a combo ie streamers+DAC between $500 to $2500, the focus and cost allocation seems to be more on the DAC side than the streaming side. The incremental improvement wrt DAC in a $500 vs $2000 combo product is much higher than the streamer part of the product at these price points.

2) So unless one spends a significantly higher amount ie upwards of $3000 for a streamer+DAC or buys a dedicated streamer, the improvements wrt streamer does not seem to be significant. In other words, moving even 1 price segment seem to matter for the DAC but for a streamer one might need to move 2 or 3 price points above to see any noticeable difference.

 

[DB1989]

I don't know enough to comment as my listening has been restricted to a very small sample size. But I can say a couple of things with a some degree of conviction wrt streamers.

1) With most products that are a combo ie streamers+DAC between $500 to $2500, the focus and cost allocation seems to be more on the DAC side than the streaming side. The incremental improvement wrt DAC in a $500 vs $2000 combo product is much higher than the streamer part of the product at these price points.

2) So unless one spends a significantly higher amount ie upwards of $3000 for a streamer+DAC or buys a dedicated streamer, the improvements wrt streamer does not seem to be significant. In other words, moving even 1 price segment seem to matter for the DAC but for a streamer one might need to move 2 or 3 price points above to see any noticeable difference.

With the influx of new DACs on a daily basis, that statement may not necessarily hold true, especially over time. Case in point, the ifi Zen Dac is equivalent to the Chord Mojo despite being 1/4th the price i.e. 11.9K vs 40K respectively. Alternatively, i could be tone deaf.

In fact, i have ordered the Allo USbridge Player+Digione Signature hat+Shanti LPSU to confirm this finding since my current source, a laptop computer perpetually connected to a power supply without a battery, is my current source and hence, may not provide the cleanest signal to the DAC though i have employed the Audiquest Jitterbug and a balanced cable to the CXA81 (from the ifi ZEN Dac only, Chord Mojo does not support balanced connection) to mitigate the effects of jitter and electrical noise respectively.

At the moment, there's nothing between the Ifi Zen DAC and the Chord Mojo w.r.t SQ.

 

[drkrack]

Of the above streamers, only Lumin T1 stood heads and shoulder above the Allo Signature Streamers. Bluesound Node 2i, Audiolab 6000N, Bricasti M5(Surprise!!) were clearly several steps below in terms of all parameters. Pro-ject Streambox S2 Ultra was very similar sounding, maybe a little more musical but this could be my memory playing tricks. CXN V2 was more transparent and detailed but somehow not that engaging.

Needless to say, CXN V2, AL 6000N, Node 2i and Lumin T1 are streamers+DACs. So the results might be different if one were to compare Allo with a price-matched standalone streamer.

that is quite interesting, CXN V2 was way better than All ALLO units (Allo USB Bridge, Digione Signature ) in my setup, I haven't heard any other streamers extensively enough to comment. Lumin T1 was far better than CXN V2 in my experience. Auralic Vega was quite good too. I currently have Digione Sig , no doubt that they're very good for the price , but that's about it & they need some form LPSU to get a decent SQ. A LPSU is highly recommended for ALLO streamers.

 

[shyamv]

that is quite interesting, CXN V2 was way better than All ALLO units (Allo USB Bridge, Digione Signature ) in my setup, I haven't heard any other streamers extensively enough to comment. Lumin T1 was far better than CXN V2 in my experience. Auralic Vega was quite good too. I currently have Digione Sig , no doubt that they're very good for the price , but that's about it & they need some form LPSU to get a decent SQ. A LPSU is highly recommended for ALLO streamers.

Yes, Allo Signature streamers without LPS is a noticeable step behind all the other streamers. All of my listening was done with a Shanti LPS with the grounding connections that Allo recommended. As I mentioned, CXN V2 was better than Allo Signature streamers in terms of detail and resolution but the sound was a little too etched for my taste and not engaging enough for me. This is true even of the internal DAC in CXN V2.

I would like to try the Auralic Altair/Aries G1 and Lumin U1 maybe with a better R2R DAC at some point in the future. Auralic Vega is a little too expensive for me.

 

[Beast_of_burden]

My observations on RPi based streamers vs Others below. Disclaimer - YMMV!

Over the last 2+ years, I have tried out three RPi based streamers - Allo Digione Signature (RPi 3 based with Coax and BNC), Allo USBridge Signature (RPi compute module based with USB), Hifiberry Digi+ (RPi 3b plus Hifiberry HAT over Coax). Of these Hifiberry was marginally better than a Chromecast Audio. I don't think it compares well with the other Rpi streamers and I shall set this aside in this discussion. Both the Signature variants of Allo products were powered by an Allo Shanti LPS. No other USB regen, reclockers, power conditioners etc were used with Allo Signature streamer except for grounding Allo to LPS to DAC in a star configuration as recommend by Allo. Volumio was the only software used with Tidal as the source.

I have also compared the above at different times with the following 'Branded' streamers - Audiolab 6000N, Bluesound Node 2i, Pro-ject S2 Streambox Ultra (RPi compute module based with a white-labelled ver of Volumio), Cambridge Audio CXN V2, Bricasti M5(RPi compute module based) and Lumin T1. While this is not a scientific A/B/X comparison, I remember that I had used all of these products as a streamer only, connected to a a relatively modest Pro-ject Pre S2 Digital DAC($599) mostly via Coax wherever available. These were evaluated over a period of 2+ years, so my musical memory might have also played a role here. I had owned all of these at one point in time except Lumin T1 which was borrowed.

Of the above streamers, only Lumin T1 stood heads and shoulder above the Allo Signature Streamers. Bluesound Node 2i, Audiolab 6000N, Bricasti M5(Surprise!!) were clearly several steps below in terms of all parameters. Pro-ject Streambox S2 Ultra was very similar sounding, maybe a little more musical but this could be my memory playing tricks. CXN V2 was more transparent and detailed but somehow not that engaging.

Needless to say, CXN V2, AL 6000N, Node 2i and Lumin T1 are streamers+DACs. So the results might be different if one were to compare Allo with a price-matched standalone streamer.

I find John Westlake designs at Pro-Ject to be very good and offer great value for money. Most of their products sell for the same price point equivalent Allo products and they have a huge community support as well. Availability in India is an issue though.

However for any computer-based music, Allo products are extremely well-designed and offer tremendous value for money. Their attention to reducing noise, jitter, interface etc in all aspects related to power, audio signal, RF etc is really commendable. I am not saying that there are better than every other streamer but I believe one must spend atleast 3-4X to get anything significantly better. Yes, they are a little fiddly and need someone who can tinker with SW. Of course the fact that it offers flexibility wrt SW is a big selling point for me but this might get too much for someone new to all of this. However, the end-result is very good especially considering the very little money one needs to spend. And they are made just a few kms from where I live!

I am of the opinion now that unless I can spend upwards of $2500 on a streamer, I shall stick to my Allo Signature Streamers.

Its taken me a few months to appreciate the value of Allo products, but they are good. Very good indeed. I too am all in on Allo including the Revolution DAC which does hardly anything wrong IMO.

 

[essrand]

I tried the next item on my agenda. This particular tuning on a Rpi4 (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60691-how-is-the-pi-4/) that's supposed to beat full fledged CAS server with JCAT cards.
Did all the rigmarole but the Rpi4 errored out on booting. Any Rpi gurus here who can help debug?