Help me to choose between these MEGA MONSTERS!!!

forgive me avidyarthy, but the second post to the thread you pointed out says: "Most articles on TLs are seriously flawed, as is the one above."

This means the OP's discussion is seriously flawed and should not be taken into consideration.:rolleyes:

I scanned the link and found that a DIY FM was trying to point that there were serious flaws in the TL design and that it cannot be modelled electrically. I think its more to justify that a vented design sounds better than a TL though it is not so. A TL will sound better than the vented in both the low and mid-end given the same set of cross-overs and drivers. But commercial manufacturing of a TL is difficult due to chances of variation in models due to stringent damping requirement. If the damping of the line is not carried out as required there can be huge variation in the mid-range and low frequency response which could prove fatal for the manufacturer. Hence there are only a couple of commercial TL manufactures in the world and they know what they are doing. The TL cannot be build by a worker in a factory if he does not understand why he is damping the line and why its important. It requires passion and hence TLs are made only by passionate people who know their work. Vented enclosures on the other hand does not have stringent requirement for damping and minor variation in damping does not change the sound quality drastically. Hence its easy to commercially manufacture a vented enclsoure with labourers which is not so in a TL. This is the fundamental reason why commercial TLs are expensive and not because of anything else beause the designer himself manufactures the speakers and it is difficult to train someone else to damp the line etc. because some fundamental knowledge of harmonics and the design should be know which is not possible to do so someone sitting in China.
 
If the AVR is giving off this kinda heat, then you HAVE to keep it out in the open. It seems you have put it inside an open (front-back) cabinet.

You got this part right.

This won't do! The heat generated would go up ... and the available 4" free space (what I make out in the pic) is grossly insufficient.

Unfortunately the picture posted before do not reveal the little DIY work I did regarding DSP-Z9s internal HEAT expulsion.

Hence:

DSP-Z9 --> Screws taken off from Top Cover
mydspz9nutsoff.jpg


DSP-Z9 --> Just one look at her assets will simply blow you off :D
mydspz9hoodsoff.jpg


DSP-Z9 --> Fans
mydspz9fan3.jpg


mydspz9fan2.jpg


mydspz9fan1.jpg


As depicted before DSP-Z9 contains two symmetrical laid out power-amp chambers situated on either side of the amp while the middle chamber contains the power supply section. Three 80mm silent CoolerMaster fans does duty on each of the two power amp chambers while the single 120mm fan takes care of the power supply section. The expelled air from all those seven is warm even at low volume levels.

mydspz9fan4.jpg


My nine speaker system contains two 10 inchers & four 8 inchers. Being Sony/ Sharps they are cheaper in comparison to audiophile grade loudspeakers and do not posses the articulate & tight bass of a 1 lakh floorstander. But that are apt in providing heaps of in our chest feel which bass lovers just loves.

There are also two 80mm super silent fans situated below the heatsinks, which wrenches into action only when the top becomes a frying pan. Why?

Since DSP-Z9 simply doesnt cares about the heat, the internal electronic/ electrical components are so high quality/ grade that until your pressure cooker gives a full blown whistle just sitting over it, there is simply nothing to worry about. Or so I was told.

But I took the safer route and installed the cooling fans.

Those two internal fans never came in action at my home, and I was GOD BLESSED to see them just once in action, when we connected those nine mighty four ohm Axiom Audio M80 v3 floorstanders on all 9 channels, pumped the volume up to over 80% and let it be there for an hour.

Avidyarthy, I cannot describe you the exact feeling, my hairs still rises in the spinal cord region when I think about it, at those time I cannot think, talk or do anything, I just got drenched in those pure oxygen filled waves of air emanating from those nine majestic M80 towers. Yanni, Pink Floyd, Deff Leppard, Bruce Springsteen, Richard Marx, Enigma, Avril Lavigne, Daughtry, Evanesence, Poets of the Fall, REM, Roxette, Seether etc followed one after the other, and every time DSP-Z9 effortlessly pumped endless reserves of power with those power cords having thickness of high tension lines & those nine M80s embraced me and took to their respective live concerts/ performances and dropped me just before the stage!!!

And DSP-Z9 did all of that from Yamaha CD-A1000s 2-channel digital audio source. How? Yamahas own 32 bit DSP processors from over 30 years of development have grown to posses Pentium 4 levels processing speeds and DSP-Z9 implements four of them just for DSP encoding/ decoding. With these levels of processing speed, Yamaha DSPs have reached the levels of musical refinement that can bowl out even some of the toughest hardcore stereo buffs. You will simply love them.

This is the root cause why I love surround sound over stereo, cause it feels like I am inside a concert/ live show having a three dimensional feeling rather than hearing it from a distance in a two dimensional stereo sound. I know the so called Analog Stereo purist will declare war here, but let just say, let them be happy with what they think is best and let me enjoy my own world with processed digital audio.
 
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This the root cause why I love surround sound over stereo, cause it feels like I am inside a concert/ live show having a three dimensional feeling rather than a hearing it from a distance in a two dimensional stereo sound. I know the so called Analog Stereo purist will declare war here, but let just say, let them be happy with what they think is best and let me enjoy my own world with processed digital audio.

Kudos to you sir.. Well said.:clapping:

Your Signature is a stark reminder as well.
 
Better still, put an AC for the room! Aesthetics are being thrown to the dustbin now. What use is a Titanium coloured eqmpt?

You are recently married ....... so, you can afford it now. :p
 
Kudos to you sir.. Well said.:clapping:

Your Signature is a stark reminder as well.

Talking about signatures, i feel FM Kanwar's has one of the best ones :clapping:

"It's a fruitless endeavor to try and educate a fool that rejoices in ignorance"

Really well put, don't you think????:rolleyes:
 
For the past few days I have been doing a little bit of DACs and their way of implementation. There are simply so many things to learn; sometimes I do feel to know a single drop in an entire ocean of audio/ video technologies implemented out there. So, I thought to share my findings.:)

DAC CONFIGURATION

There are a couple of ways in which an audio engineer can go about handling D/A conversion on a A/V amplifier. Say for a digital stereo input source having two channels, he can use single-ended DAC configuration i.e. a single stereo DAC for decoding, saving overall cost, and increasing convenience for circuit designing & engineering. Thus in a single-ended configuration a single stereo DAC is used to handle a pair of audio channels and are most used by A/V companies.

The second & more expensive way is using a differential DAC configuration i.e. using a discrete stereo DAC acting as a mono DAC for each channel. Here a single stereo DAC is configured to handle the positive portion of the waveform in one channel and the negative portion of the waveform in the other channel, for one audio channel (e.g., left front), thus lowering the noise floor by 3 dB as compared to running DAC in single-ended mode. Thus in a differential configuration a single stereo DAC is used to handle a single audio channel.

The third, more complex way is to go by a dual-differential DAC configuration. In dual-differential mode, a pair of stereo DACs is used for each audio channel. This configuration allows for lowering the noise floor by further 3 dB as compared to running DACs in differential configuration. Thus in a dual-differential configuration two stereo DACs is used to handle a single audio channel.

The forth, most complex & exotic way is to go by a quad dual-differential DAC configuration. In quad dual-differential mode, two pairs of stereo DACs are used for each audio channel. This configuration allows achieving highest transparency & widest dynamic range while lowering the noise floor by further 3 dB as compared to running DACs in dual differential configuration. Thus in a quad dual-differential configuration four stereo DACs is used to handle a single audio channel.

If we consider a 7.1 channel format having eight discrete audio channels the number of stereo DACs required:

Single-ended configuration: 8 channels / 1 DAC for 2 channels = 4

Differential DAC configuration: 8 channels / 1 DAC per channel = 8

Dual-differential DAC configuration: 8 channels X 2 DACs per channel = 16

Quad Dual-differential DAC configuration: 8 channels X 4 DACs per channel = 32
-------------

DAC COMPARISION

Denon AVC-A1SRA and the Yamaha DSP-Z9, DSP-Z11 & RX-A3010 uses 24 bit, 192 kHz Burr-Brown stereo DACs, being Direct Stream Digital (DSD) compatible. Stereo DACs can handle a pair of audio channels (for example left/ right of a stereo signal).

While looking at their schematic diagrams their way of implementation was the most reveling part.

1) Denon AVC-A1SRA being a 7.1 channel A/V amplifier uses sixteen standard quality Burr-Brown PCM1738E DACs in an exotic dual-differential configuration for all its 8 audio channels. When in stereo mode, D/A converter section is reconfigured to mind-blowing ultra exotic quad dual differential configuration!!! :eek:

2) Yamaha DSP-Z11 being an 11.2 channel A/V amplifier uses seven standard quality Burr-Brown PCM1796DBR DACs. According to Burr-Brown PCM1796 is the replacement for ageing PCM1738. Z11 uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

3) Yamaha Aventage RX-A3010 being an 11.2 channel A/V amplifier uses seven standard quality Burr Brown DACs. The front, center, surround & surround backs are handled by four standard quality Burr-Brown DSD1796DBR while the front presence & subwoofer channel gets two lil low quality Burr-Brown DSD1791. Rear presence channels provided for external amplification use a even low quality Burr-Brown PCM1781DBR. RX-A3010 uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

4) Yamaha DSP-Z9 being a 9.2 channel A/V amplifier uses six ubiquitous & exotic quality Burr-Brown PCM1792DBR DACs. These PCM1792s cost more than four times than a PCM1738/ PCM1796. It uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

DAC SPECIFICATION:

Burr-Brown PCM1738E (used in Denon AVC-A1SRA):

Price: INR 343/- per piece
Total Cost: 343 X 16 DACs = INR 5,488 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.002 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -82dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 117 db
SNR = 117 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 120 db
SNR = 120 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 123 db
SNR = 123 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 126 db
SNR = 126 db

Burr Brown PCM1796DBR/ DSD1796DBR (used in Yamaha DSP-Z11/ RX-A3010):

Price: INR 343/- per piece
Total Cost: 343 X 7 DACs = INR 2,401 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.0002 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -98 dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 123 db
SNR = 123 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 126 db
SNR = 126 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 129 db
SNR = 129 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 132 db
SNR = 132 db

Burr Brown PCM1792DBR (used in Yamaha DSP-Z9):

Price: INR 1,421/- per piece
Total Cost: 1,421 X 6 DACs = INR 8,526 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.00001 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -130 dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 129 db
SNR = 129 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 132 db
SNR = 132 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 135 db
SNR = 135 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 138 db
SNR = 138 db

----------------------------

Hats off to Denon for using the PCM1738E in its ultra exotic quad dual-differential configuration and climbing to 126 dB SNR in stereo mode, this design is truly a statement by Denon of how much they can wrench out from DACs. :licklips:

When in multi-channel mode the D/A converter section is reconfigured to dual differential configuration stepping down by 3 db to 123 dB SNR. On the other hand the Yamaha DSP-Z11 using the PCM1796DBR in a simple and less complicated single-ended configuration reached an identical SNR of 123 dB of Denon. Only in stereo-mode the Denon beats the Z-11. Mind you the center channel is in differential configuration mode so the SNR bumps to 126 dB here.

At the end Yamaha DSP-Z9 wins hand down with its PCM1792DBR DACs in simple single-ended configuration reaching a SNR of 129 dB, 6 dB more than Denon & DSP-Z11 in multi channel mode. In stereo mode Denon comes 3 dB closer but still looses out. Mind you the center channel is in differential configuration mode so the SNR bumps to 131 dB here. Also the DSP-Z9 DACs are way superior in terms of dynamic range, passband ripple & stopband attenuation than the rest.:)
 
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Dear OP, first of all congratulations on the purchase of a very capable equipment. I have been watching your enthusiasm over your latest acquisition and I am very happy about the way this has made you happy.

I had wanted to recommend you the Denon AVC-A1SRA when you had created this thread, but decided to stay away. Denon AVC-A1SRA is a very very capable piece of equipment. It's utility is many many folds more than meets the eyes. I had myself bought the Denon after tons of research and audition. The primary reason I had settled for it was that it sounded great for music as well. Being abroad having to move year after year not wanting to have too many boxes, simplicity was a major criteria for me. This equipment combined many things I needed into one box, and that's what the doc had ordered for me. I had used AVRs successfully in stereo usage even before than and I knew for sure an AVR of this calibre was quite sufficient for stereo duty in the range I intended to use.

In the end I was very happy. The amp was able to retrieve such details from old songs (that I have in compressed format, that I had stopped listening to due to higher level of expectation from the sound quality) that I was listeing to my old archives all over again.

I see that you are happy with your purchase, and there is nothing wrong with it. You chose what your heart says you should have, and that's a good decision. However, many people will rush to declare you a lot of things you are not for using an AVR for music. Be ready to ignore the insult without getting bogged down and buy at least two better speakers down the line. The amp you have is a VERY capable amp and will kill many a stereo amps costing upto INR 80-100k. And that's just the cost of the amp. Don't even mention the DAC and the ICs. Give them some nice front-end. It will serve you for a long long time.

So, enjoy your equipment, happy listening!
 
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For the past few days I have been doing a little bit of DACs and their way of implementation. There are simply so many things to learn; sometimes I do feel to know a single drop of an entire sea of audio/ video technologies implemented out there. So, I thought to share my findings.:)

DAC CONFIGURATION

There are a couple of ways in which an audio engineer can go about handling D/A conversion on a A/V amplifier. Say for a digital stereo input source having two channels, he can use single-ended configuration i.e. a single stereo DAC for decoding, saving overall cost, and increasing convenience for circuit designing & engineering. Thus in a single-ended configuration a single stereo DAC is used to handle a pair of audio channels and are most used by A/V companies.

The second & more expensive way is using a differential DAC configuration i.e. using a discrete stereo DAC acting as a mono DAC for each channel. Here a single stereo DAC is configured to handle the positive portion of the waveform in one channel and the negative portion of the waveform in the other channel, for one audio channel (e.g., left front), thus lowering the noise floor by 3 dB as compared to running DAC in single-ended mode. Thus in a differential configuration a single stereo DAC is used to handle a single audio channel.

The third, more complex way is to go by a dual-differential DAC configuration. In dual-differential mode, a pair of stereo DACs is used for each audio channel. This configuration allows for lowering the noise floor by further 3 dB as compared to running DACs in differential configuration. Thus in a dual-differential configuration two stereo DACs is used to handle a single audio channel.

The forth, most complex & exotic way is to go by a quad dual-differential DAC configuration. In quad dual-differential mode, two pairs of stereo DACs are used for each audio channel. This configuration allows achieving highest transparency & widest dynamic range while lowering the noise floor by further 3 dB as compared to running DACs in dual differential configuration. Thus in a quad dual-differential configuration four stereo DACs is used to handle a single audio channel.

If we consider a 7.1 channel format having eight discrete audio channels the number of stereo DACs required:

Single-ended configuration: 8 channels / 1 DAC for 2 channels = 4

Differential DAC configuration: 8 channels / 1 DAC per channel = 8

Dual-differential DAC configuration: 8 channels X 2 DACs per channel = 16

Quad Dual-differential DAC configuration: 8 channels X 4 DACs per channel = 32
-------------

DAC COMPARISION

Denon AVC-A1SRA and the Yamaha DSP-Z9, DSP-Z11 & RX-A3010 uses 24 bit, 192 kHz Burr-Brown stereo DACs, being Direct Stream Digital (DSD) compatible. Stereo DACs can handle a pair of audio channels (for example left/ right of a stereo signal).

While looking at their schematic diagrams their way of implementation was the most reveling part.

1) Denon AVC-A1SRA being a 7.1 channel A/V amplifier uses sixteen standard quality Burr-Brown PCM1738E DACs in an exotic dual-differential configuration for all its 8 audio channels. When in stereo mode, D/A converter section is reconfigured to mind-blowing ultra exotic quad dual differential configuration!!! :eek:

2) Yamaha DSP-Z11 being an 11.2 channel A/V amplifier uses seven standard quality Burr-Brown PCM1796DBR DACs. According to Burr-Brown PCM1796 is the replacement for ageing PCM1738. Z11 uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

3) Yamaha Aventage RX-A3010 being an 11.2 channel A/V amplifier uses seven standard quality Burr Brown DACs. The front, center, surround & surround backs are handled by four standard quality Burr-Brown DSD1796DBR while the front presence & subwoofer channel gets two lil low quality Burr-Brown DSD1791. Rear presence channels provided for external amplification use a even low quality Burr-Brown PCM1781DBR. RX-A3010 uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

4) Yamaha DSP-Z9 being a 9.2 channel A/V amplifier uses six ubiquitous & exotic quality Burr-Brown PCM1792DBR DACs. These PCM1792s cost more than four times than a PCM1738/ PCM1796. It uses differential DAC configuration for the center channel, while the rest uses standard single-ended DAC configuration.

DAC SPECIFICATION:

Burr-Brown PCM1738E (used in Denon AVC-A1SRA):

Price: INR 343/- per piece
Total Cost: 343 X 16 DACs = INR 5,488 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.002 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -82dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 117 db
SNR = 117 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 120 db
SNR = 120 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 123 db
SNR = 123 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 126 db
SNR = 126 db

Burr Brown PCM1796DBR/ DSD1796DBR (used in Yamaha DSP-Z11/ RX-A3010):

Price: INR 343/- per piece
Total Cost: 343 X 7 DACs = INR 2,401 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.0002 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -98 dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 123 db
SNR = 123 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 126 db
SNR = 126 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 129 db
SNR = 129 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 132 db
SNR = 132 db

Burr Brown PCM1792DBR (used in Yamaha DSP-Z9):

Price: INR 1,421/- per piece
Total Cost: 1,421 X 6 DACs = INR 8,526 /-
THD = 0.0004%
Passband Ripple = 0.00001 dB
Stopband Attenuation = -130 dB

Single-ended configuration:
Dynamic Range = 129 db
SNR = 129 db

Differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 132 db
SNR = 132 db

Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 135 db
SNR = 135 db

Quad Dual-differential Configuration:
Dynamic Range = 138 db
SNR = 138 db

----------------------------

Hats off to Denon for using the PCM1738E in its ultra exotic quad dual-differential configuration and climbing to 126 dB SNR in stereo mode, this design is truly a statement by Denon of how much you can wrench out from DACs. :licklips:

When in multi-channel mode the D/A converter section is reconfigured to dual differential configuration stepping down by 3 db to 123 dB SNR. On the other hand the Yamaha DSP-Z11 using the PCM1796DBR in a simple and less complicated single-ended configuration reached an identical SNR of 123 dB of Denon. Only in stereo-mode the Denon beats the Z-11. Mind you the center channel is in differential configuration mode so the SNR bumps to 126 dB here.

At the end Yamaha DSP-Z9 wins hand down with its PCM1792DBR DACs in simple single-ended configuration reaching a SNR of 129 dB, 6 dB more than Denon & DSP-Z11 in multi channel mode. In stereo mode Denon comes 3 dB closer but still looses out. Mind you the center channel is in differential configuration mode so the SNR bumps to 131 dB here. Also the DSP-Z9 DACs are way superior in terms of dynamic range, passband ripple & stopband attenuation than the rest.:)

Thanks for a detail analysis of the various DACs and its specifications and design. The analysis made by you require a lot of passion and i can see that. I am planning to modify my Pionner DVD DV-373 and am looking ahead to upgrade my current DAC PCM1742 to PCM1792. I have made the pin compatability and mapping diagrams and have also made the circuit diagram to have the DAC in the Pioneer DVD replaced. The current DVD uses a single power supply and hence the quality of the analoge output is not so good. Also it uses an SMPS power supply with a cheap circuitry. I am planning to have a dual power supply for the analogue stage using the LM317 and LM337 regulators. The project is getting delayed due to want of time and getting the art work done. Also the chips are SMD types and will require precise soldering. Will update you once the swap is done for an comparision. I have already replaced the op-amp in my DVD from the current op-amp to a National semiconductor op-amp LM4562 with a significant improvement in the low, mid and high frequency response. Hence i am tempted for the DAC swap. The entire activity should cost me nothing more than Rs.5000/- including the PCBs and is worthed the effort. Hope i do not damage the Pioneer DVD in the process.
 
Talking about signatures, i feel FM Kanwar's has one of the best ones :clapping:

"It's a fruitless endeavor to try and educate a fool that rejoices in ignorance"

Really well put, don't you think????:rolleyes:

Yeah Kanwar's sig is really well put
 
I had wanted to recommend you the Denon AVC-A1SRA when you had created this thread, but decided to stay away. Denon AVC-A1SRA is a very very capable piece of equipment. It's utility is many many folds more than meets the eyes. I had myself bought the Denon after tons of research and audition. The primary reason I had settled for it was that it sounded great for music as well...................In the end I was very happy. The amp was able to retrieve such details from old songs (that I have in compressed format, that I had stopped listening to due to higher level of expectation from the sound quality) that I was listeing to my old archives all over again.

Denon AVC-A1SRA is a beast of an A/V amplifier. Any A/V amp capable of 200 watts per channel in stereo mode at (6 ohms, 20Hz~20 kHz, 0.05% THD) deserves respect. Adding to the fact that it will do 138 watts with five channels and 118 watts with seven channels driven at (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.3% THD) one can rightfully call it a monster A/V amplifier.

One can argue sound quality is a completely different aspect and is in no way related to power output, but wait the AVC-A1SRA excels in this part too. After over five hours of auditioning, it will be incorrect for me to say DSP-Z9 have better sound quality than the AVC-A1SRA, I just felt DSP-Z9 in 2-channel & multi channel formats seemed to be a bit more refined & detailed with a little more transparent, flowing, enveloping sound signature and having better texture & soundstage.

Mind you these are MY assessments from MY auditioning experiences along with those truly majestic Axiom Audio towers & bookshelves and can vary for others. After all I do not have golden ears!!!

The amp you have is a VERY capable amp and will kill many a stereo amps costing upto INR 80-100k. And that's just the cost of the amp. Don't even mention the DAC and the ICs.

During audition listening to stereo with pure direct mode bypassing all digital circuitry, post processing, tone controls and necessary A/D and D/A conversions DSP-Z-9 came on top followed by AVC-A1SRA. In Pure Direct Mode DSP-Z9 had a smooth, rich textured sound that was rife with air and possessed striking dynamics that brought songs to life. In Straight Mode a slightly warm midrange and solid bass impact make the DSP-Z9 one of the most musical solid-state A/V amplifier ever made.

It is not to say DSP-Z-11 was a kitten either, it actually has more power and equal refinement of Yamaha A-S1000 stereo integrated which I was lucky to audition along with the ubiquitous Musical Fidelity A5.

I listened to CDs of different genres in English as well as Hindi for more than two hours with AVC-A1SRA, DSP-Z9, DSP-Z11, Yamaha A-S1000, Musical Fidelity A5, Cambridge Audio Azur 650R & NAD T-757 and came to this conclusion that if there is any A/V amp which can be near their with the mighty MF A5 in stereo it had to be the AVC-A1SRA and if there is any A/V amp which can be in level with A5 it had to be the DSP-Z9.

One will be just astounded by the level of refinement this Denon was capable off in stereo mode with optical in. Eight Burr-Brown stereo DACs having 16 channel handling capability were forced in quad dual differential DAC configuration to handle just two stereo channels providing superlative sound quality and being nearly there in terms of refinement with that of MF A5.

DSP-Z9 being an A/V amp showed very un A/V amp like characteristics in stereo as well as multi-channel mode. It amazingly posses this neutral, textured & transparent feel with a level of finesse & refinement one generally get in high end stereo amps like MF A5 being designed for music & music only.

Though the Azur 650R & T-757 were not capable to create even half the soundstage of these three monsters, I really liked the 650R due to its warm & mellow sound signature being just the opposite of A5/ A-S1000/ DSP-Z9. The T-757 seemed blunt & less airy in the upper regions in comparison.

After auditioning I now fully understand the unbelievable comment as of why the previous owner preferred DSP-Z9 over MF A5 for stereo listening!!!

The answer is very simple; DSP-Z9 is equal to MF A5 in stereo musical representation with a slightly better soundstage. The DSP-Z9 possesses a natural, lively and energetic sound that added a bit of swing to music and punch to movies. It simply excels as a multi-channel listening device, be it for music or movies. The bass on DSP-Z9 was the best in comparison with DSP-Z11 & Denon AVC-A1SRA. Low, fast and tight only start to describe the sound.

I know this is truly very hard to digest, but giants like Denon & Yamaha with their technological prowess & financial might have improved their 4 lakh plus TOTL A/V amps to such levels that they now challenge dedicated hi end stereo amps as well as separates in terms of imaging, separation, refinement and sound quality and win in many cases.

One just needs to listen in order to believe.

I see that you are happy with your purchase, and there is nothing wrong with it. You chose what your heart says you should have, and that's a good decision.

However, many people will rush to declare you a lot of things you are not for using an AVR for music. Be ready to ignore the insult without getting bogged down and buy at least two better speakers down the line. So, enjoy your equipment, happy listening!

yanni.png


Multi-channel Music

Listening to Yanni-Live at El Morro, Puerto Rico recording in high definition 24bit/ 96 kHz, 5.1 channels DVD format was an eye opener and THE MOST reveling experience, DSP-Z9, DSP-Z11 & AVC-A1SRA aptly demonstrating their musical prowess in abundance.

This full orchestra contained some amazing number of audio instruments like drums, kick-drums, violins, guitars, base guitars, trumpets, flugelhorns, percussions, harps, keyboards, French horns, cellos, trombones, double bass, bass horns, etc. Renowned vocalists like Lauren Jelencovich, and Lisa Lavie was also there.

I was just amazed by the amount of sonic information & detailing these 5.1 channel DVD discs contain which can never be expressed in a two channel stereo.

In order to listen & enjoy this type of high resolution DVDs to its brim, one need A/V amplifiers of DSP-Z9/ AVC-A1SRAs caliber having internal amplifiers so good and so musically right, that unless you're willing to fork over some major dough one wouldn't look to separates if you can afford them. I found their power on tap to be bountiful and robust, making them one of the best-sounding A/V amplifiers in the game even today, with overall audio performance not unlike what I heard from many high-end integrateds.

The way DSP-Z9/ AVC-A1SRA were able to represent these complex orchestral musical pieces along with the melodious as well as haunting vocals of Lauren & Lisa was the most revealing part. I was able to exactly identify with my eyes closed as of where in the stage an instrument is being played in the live concert with a level of refinement, detailing & tonal separation I was never able to experience before in a stereo format.

I was pleasantly surprised by the organic nature in which Lauren & Lisas voice were reproduced by DSP-Z9. It were presented with fullness and warmth that is not typically associated with any A/V amplifier I herd before, I also heard subtle vocal inflections of their performance, showing that these monsters are very capable of passing even the smallest of details that is provided to them. The sounds staging performance of these A/V amps were excellent, placing the vocals center stage and well in front of the speakers as the other instruments were carefully placed around them.

With the DSP-Z9 being the only one to be sewn to those majestic nine M80 towers, it seemed to have much greater dynamic energy than the AVC-A1SRA as well as DSP-Z11, which sewed to make the soundfield even more cohesive. The violins, cellos and violas sounded taut and alive, almost as though they had their own voice, beyond that of Lauren & Lisa. The kick drum played quick and deep and I was very impressed with there tonality & how they were represented musically. It was as if the energy from each tower was so strong that a true bubble had been created around me. Combined with the excellent imaging and soundstage of the Axiom Audio M80 v3 towers, the sound-field just extended from speaker to speaker. The brawny Class AB amplifier of DSP-Z9 with multiple high current outputs was able to extract enough bass from the M80s that it often sounded as if we had two subwoofers on when we did not. Loud, deep noises from drums & kick-drums had significant impact.

Micro-dynamics were also very smooth and well-delineated, and listening to multi channel music via the DSP-Z9/ AVC-A1SRA was a very pleasing, engrossing experience. The experience was so strong, that I found myself in musical nirvana, ended up listening Yanni twice through the DSP-Z9/ DSP-Z11/ AVCA1SRA and couldn't help but think that this was the way music were meant to be heard.
--------------------------------

The inevitable question that begs to arise as of why one needs to buy a separate high end stereo amplifier like MF A5 for music listening?

Truly speaking I cannot find one damn reason. After listening to DSP-Z9, DSP-Z11 & AVC-A1SRA I will choose these Uber A/V amps over MF A5 any day any time for stereo listening and also get the added benefit of enjoying much superior high definition multi-channel audio tracks with equal refinement & better sound staging for free. :licklips:

I simply cannot understand why one needs to have a separate stereo setup for music & a mediocre AVR setup for movies. The cumulative money one needs to spend in both with separate speaker packages easily exceeds that of an Uber A/V amplifier setup with added ease of one box solution and much less headache. A mediocre A/V amp like Azur 650R will never be able to recreate the sonic purity along with all engulfing soundstage that DSP-Z9/ AVC-A1SRA/ DSP-Z11 will with a high resolution multi-channel audio.

In the end I found A/V amp of DSP-Z9 caliber lends it with a unique ability i.e. to be jack of all trades and be master of all. It becomes a Musical Fidelity A5 during critical stereo listening, with multi-channel inputs provide a live concert environment with incredible power output along with fidelity, capable of powering any speaker on the market today with juice to spare making them a very versatile amplifier for a variety of system and at the same time provide REAL movie theater experience in our home with power and headroom to be able to drive even tough impedance-load speakers to beyond-cinema levels, even from the most demanding sources. :)
 
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Just thought of sharing some shots I took during the DSP-Z9 analysis. Here are a selected few:

My Yamaha DSP-Z9

The DSP-Z9 is hopelessly good-looking and appears every bit as expensive as it truly is, the craftsmanship of the casework is of very high quality, especially for an A/V amplifier, and is more indicative of a higher-end separate component. The feel is solid & it looks like being carved out of a solid titanium metal block.

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The faceplate is formed from a 10 mm thick piece of beautifully machined extruded aluminum, finished in a striking brushed titanium treatment reminiscent of Krell amps. The faceplate & side panel quality are above reproach and beyond anything I have seen on an A/V amplifier. In fact, it felt much more like a handcrafted high-end component than a mass-produced one.

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The upper center of the face is dominated by a decidedly high-tech orange dot-matrix display, which is not only extremely legible but also quite stylish. Just below it is a solid 10mm thick oil damped front panel which gently folds out by pressing the lower part of the panel. The titanium finished billeted aluminum knobs & button layouts are intuitive with the rotary source input selector knob located on the left side of the front panel. The feel from this famous Alps knob is just right, providing a gentle push in the clockwise/ anticlockwise direction is rewarded with an assured & precise click which feels simply fantastic. Above the source selector is the Pure Direct button that illuminates in blue/ green when this mode is enabled and special 2-channel/ multi-channel pure direct analog audio input signal paths are used. To the left of the source selector reside the standby/ on button. Last but not least is a large digitally controlled analog volume knob is right where it ought to be, on the right hand side of the Z-9's facade.

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Continuing the theme of quality, all of the buttons operate with a solid, direct feel, and the Accurate Touch volume knob rotates with an absolute precise motion in +/- 0.5 dB steps.

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The bottom of the receiver included substantial vibration damping feet, again seeming out of place on an A/V amplifier.

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The sheet metal seemed a lot thicker than the competitors and it was finished to a higher standard too. The top of the unit is covered with ventilation slots that serve to help ventilate radiant heat.

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Needless to say, I was very impressed with the level of build quality and refinement the DSP-Z9 offered.

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A glimpse behind the front panel.

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The DSP-Z9 includes two remote controls, a stylish silver GUI remote control with commonly used glow-in-the-dark buttons and a Direct Access Remote Control.

Back in 2004, Yamaha DSP-Z9 was the first A/V amplifier ever to adorn a GUI (Graphical User Interface). It really started a new trend which was immediately cached, copied & followed by its competitors.

With Direct Access Remote Control one can use every conceivable feature of the amplifier and comes with a handy bright yellow/ orange backlighting, which would be quite useful in a dark environment. Both remotes have a solid feel and fits well in the hand. This remote control can learn the functions of other components, so you can use it as a single remote for the entire system. It has quite large memory capacity and comes pre-encoded with many television and component codes. The buttons though quite cluttered are logically laid out and are easy to use. In the component control area have different functions for each type of component, selected by pressing the input button. The input name is shown in the LCD window, and I can change each name. Frequently used functions are easily accessible on the front, while others are located under the sliding panel. Finally, 15 different macros (multi-command) functions can be programmed.

While using DSP-Z9 GUI, I really came to appreciate one of the best looking and easiest to use on-screen display. With this second remote control having large round cursor control in the centre dedicated to GUI use, it very easy to navigate the on-screen menus and enter desired commands. It also has power, volume and mute buttons. This GUI includes extensive yet easily understandable setup menus and has been designed to make it easy to select and adjust desired functions. With the new graphic user interface (GUI) to make set-up as straightforward as possible, assigned the sources to our chosen inputs and set up the video side. The menus were clean, beautiful laid out and very easy to work through. They were simple, yet elegantly done and easy to navigate, taking only a few minutes to set up everything as I wished it to be.

glowingremote.jpg


Pure Direct ON display off, dsp off, decoder off, ., ., ALL off. You just get a big volume knob. While Pure Direct, Direct & Straight modes are prevalent even on low end A/V amplifiers, the improvement in sound quality is rarely noticeable. On this Yamaha, however, engaging these modes significantly improved the sound quality. At this price point, it makes sense that Yamaha offers this feature as I suspect most people will use it, or at least try it.

puredirect.jpg


Turning one's attention to the rear of the unit, the most obvious and unexpected feature are the extra-large 24-carat hard gold plated extruded 2-way speaker terminals, which are well constructed and mounted on the upper region of the rear panel. This type of high quality speaker terminals were previously available only on separates. The rear of the chassis was equally well finished and logically laid out. An A/V enthusiasts dream.

rear1o.jpg


The Z-9 audio connections are equipped with eleven two-channel analog, one pure direct analog, one phono, one 7.1 channel analog, three digital coax, one RF-AC3 digital coax & eight digital optical inputs. Analog video connections include eight composite, eight s-video, and six component inputs. Being an A/V amplifier of 2004 the most important high-resolution digital connection namely HDMI is sorely missing, however it offers analog video up-conversion to HDTV compatible 1080i resolution via component video out. Special rejoice for LP users with built in Phono stage.

rear3.jpg


Power amp in allows only left, right & center channels, but you get a complete 9.2 channel pre out.

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The only chink in the armor. The DVD optical in socket closing door seems to be broken. This DVD input still works ok, but the auto closing door is broken. Removed the spring though.

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One look and it says solid engineering. Lifting the DSP-Z9, I immediately felt that this unit was of higher grade than I normally expect from an A/V amplifier due to its sheer 30 kilo weight. The six chambered low resonance enclosure to provide an acoustically damped environment, for additional sonic performance.

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It looks like a battleship ready to gun down its enemy. Those two unique anodized heatsinks on both sides looks like two hefty cannons.

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These unique heatsinks are truly pieces of art.

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Close analysis revels these uniquely designed space efficient twin sided horizontally mounted anodized extruded aluminum anti-resonant heatsinks have cooling fins on both the upper & lower sides. In result one gets an equal surface area of a normal horizontal heatsink at half the size. Microcosm everywhere.

heatsinks3.jpg


The juicer, 1500VA, low flux, 10 kilo toroidal transformer. The only Yamaha A/V amp ever to adorn a toroid and also the most powerful ever, capable of pumping 15 amperes of current to power amp section. And yes it looks small in picture but is actually 15 cm (1/2 foot) in diameter & very deep.

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Those Red Bull cans!!! Huge Nichicon 28,000uF, 80V power capacitors.

powercaps1.jpg


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The DSP-Z9's power supply unit is 300 watts more powerful than the dedicated Emotiva XPA-5, 5-channel power amplifier!!!

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One of the four power amp PCB boards. These are really thick PCB boards designed to last forever.

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Two pairs of discrete power transistors does duty per channel in Darlington pair topology. DSP-Z9's competitors instead use only a single pair to save cost. No other Yamaha A/V amp have this rare design architecture.

poweramp1.jpg


The concept of high current flow to the speakers is being truly followed here.

poweramp2.jpg


Quality speaks!!! The DSP-Z-9s pre & power amplifier circuit design architectures & PCB layout are exotic in nature and are found on US $10,000 plus separates. The pre-amplifier section uses a fully balanced wiring with high quality gold plated relays to achieve low noise & distortion and feeds the symmetrical driven fully discrete push-full power amplifier circuit configuration with a complementary FET input stage. This ensures fully balanced power output with no signal interference and highest slew rate (rate at which signal changes; affects high frequency response) and balanced clipping.

sidesremoved1.jpg


Furthermore, the massive 1,500 watts low impedance toroidal transformer and a pair of high-grade Nichicon 28,000uF/ 80 volts power capacitors ensure a consistently stable power supply.

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Those high quality, thick 1.6mm diameter copper jumper cables can be rarely found on any A/V amplifier. Red, blue, orange, violet,... and the counting goes on

jumpercables1.jpg


I am just amazed by the quality of wiring used in this A/V amp. Just impeccable!!! These wires carrying electrical impulses have huge impact on the ultimate SQ.

jumpercables2.jpg


The absolute best quality Nichicon Gold Tune capacitors specifically designed for high end audio are used in ALL circuit boards.

nichicon2.jpg


nichicon1.jpg


nichicon3.jpg


Look at those PCB board wiring!!! So thick.

thickboardwiring.jpg


The secondary transformer for DSP-Z9s micro computer & protection circuits.

smalltransformer.jpg


A tiny glimpse of the pre-amplifier circuit board through those electromagnetically shielded chambers. Japan engraved everywhere.

preamp.jpg


Some of those gold plated speaker relays. Not cheap.

relaysu.jpg
 
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Just awesome Rishi :)

Hi Rishi,
It was very interesting to know abt the Yahama Z-9 and you have really put it well in the forum by giving all pictures and details of the Beast.

I am also from Kolkata but stay out due to my Job. I will visit my home town next week and keep deep interest to listen your system.

Please let me know if it is possible for you to allow an audition time...

I am from Jadavpur area (Regent Estate). Let me know your location too.
 
Just awesome Rishi :)

I have been asked a lot of times in this thread and in personal messages too as of why I did choose a legacy AV amplifier like Yamaha DSP-Z9 over HD complaint HDMI ready Yamaha DSP-Z11?

The answer is quite complex. Ever music lover have his/ her own mindset and preferences of enjoying music/ movies. It is influenced by very many factors like the way he was brought up, his own lifestyle and also his own evolution in acceptance of new technological standards with time.

I THEN

I still clearly remember those days when my uncle used to come home after his daily dose of evening adda with his friends. By 8 pm, I have already finished my studies, ready to join my favorite uncle in his listening room for the two hour night audio session. In the room there was a Sonodyne Uranus ampli-deck system. There were no CDs at that time, but my uncle used to have very good quality cassettes bought by his pal from US every year. On the wall just above this deck there was this picture:

812vintagepromo.jpg


I dont think theres ever been a more iconic audio image than this Blown Away Guy. Its the one with the hipster on the right side of the picture slouching in a massive recliner, with a table lamp and martini glass being blown away by the sound of a speaker on the left side of the frame.

I was only 8 years old back then and the only child in my family who had the right to touch this Sonodyne. And I was mighty proud of this. By that time I had already gathered enough knowledge to identify & adjust bass, treble & balance along with required adjustments on the 5 band graphic equalizer when my uncle ordered!!!

With careful grooming from my uncles part I started to identify & understand how various musical instruments sounds, what is timbre, tonality, vocal inflections and the various adjectives of sound like transparency, organic nature, fullness, dryness, warmness, fast bass, tight bass etc.

I NOW

I have friends, actually a lot of them, and in general I find nine out of ten of them will describe a specific sound signature emanating from a good audio setup as awesome, mind-blowing, blow the hoods off . And thats it unfortunately. They cannot describe it any further. I do not pity them since 99 percent of us Indians have never been exposed to the understanding of sound quality & what are its various sonic aspects. I was lucky to be in the rest one percent group.

This very understanding of sound quality (SQ) had led me to appreciate those audio equipments that produce good sound irrespective of how it looks, what facilities it has and whether it is future bomb proof or not.

Take the example of my latest acquisition of having a DSP-Z9 over DSP-Z11. While the 2007 released US $5,500, DSP-Z11 had almost all the current features of a recent AV amp and most importantly accepts & decodes the HD audio/ video formats over HDMI, I mean the single feature over which 99.99 percent of all the AV enthusiasts will reject the other legacy AV amps, I for one went in the opposite route and bought the 2004 released US $4,500, DSP-Z9 at the same price of DSP-Z11!!!

My deciding factor was just one criteria, the AV amp with the best sound quality.

Next was power output capability. And in these two aspects the DSP-Z9 was superior to DSP-Z11 in every single session I had in my five hours of auditioning. I compared them in different speaker configurations like 2.0, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 & 11.1 with those five pairs of mighty Axiom Audio M80 v3 floorstanders. Every time the DSP-Z9 came out as a clear winner.

During the movie sessions I very minutely listened to Ironman blu-ray disks HD audio tracks that was available during the auditioning time, DSP-Z11 being hooked up via HDMI while the DSP-Z9 used 7.1 channel analogue inputs and every time without a hint of doubt the DSP-Z9 with its inability to decode HD audio produced a superior sonic bubble around me having much bigger soundstage.

And yes the DSP-Z9s bass was a killer, the DSP-Z11 will only huff and puff around it. Amazingly the Denon AVC-A1SRA had more slam & boom-boom effect than DSP-Z9, but in my ears lacked a little bit of bass definition, the articulate & fast nature of DSP-Z9. And in music, be it stereo or multi-channel DSP-Z9 came out as the most musical sounding and much better than its competitors. At least in my ears.

Comparing the video side, visually I found zero difference in richness & clarity between 1080i video up-conversion through DSP-Z9s component video outs and 1080p up-conversion through DSP-Z11s HDMI outs while playing a DVD standard 480i movie. So I choose DSP-Z9 over DSP-Z11 even knowing that I will be stuck with only one 7.1 channel input that can be used from a HD audio source.

But in my mindset, I better live with one 7.1 channel analogue input producing better sound quality than to have four HDMI in & two HDMI out.

I got home with my DSP-Z9 smiling only to be looked down by my friends. They said I am the biggest moron & surely a half crazy baboon with an IQ level of a retarded cockroach to choose DSP-Z9 which didnt even accept HDMI over a HD ready super awesome DSP-Z11 A/V amplifier!!! I said DSP-Z9 had better SQ than DSP-Z11 and the prompt answer was, DSP-Z11 had enough SQ to satisfy all. One does not need more SQ!!! Or else one needs to have elephant ears or wear as set of these as depicted below in order to note a difference.

earhorn.jpg


I literally gave up on them and said to myself, let them be happy with what they think is best and let me enjoy my own world of music/ movies. In my mindset I was right, and I choose with my heart. I made the right choice and went with the amp which was most musical, be it stereo or multichannel, the one with the best sound quality having the best audio amplifier embedded in it.

And I found several others who own a DSP-Z9 are not happy with DSP-Z11s sound quality. Here is one : Audioreview.com: DSP-Z9 vs DSP-Z11

It proved once more that just because DSP-Z11 had HDMI does not make it a greater multi-channel amp than DSP-Z9. At the end a music lover will always choose the amp with better SQ. Gadget freaks may differ.

Does this mean DSP-Z11s SQ is bad? Hell no!!! The DSP-Z11 is so good it will munch a 1 lakh Yamaha RX-A3010 raw. There are so many satisfied DSP-Z11 owners. The problem only starts when the owner also happens to own a DSP-Z9 and then he starts to compare, and immediately DSP-Z9 shows its merits over DSP-Z11. Atleast in terms of SQ.

Now the question arises as of why Yamaha sacrificed the proven DSP-Z9 audio amplifier section with a cheaper amp section in DSP-Z11? In my next post I will try to describe the difference in design philosophies between Mr Izumi Ozeki designed DSP-Z9 and Mr Masaya Kano designed DSP-Z11. The truth is the targets set by them were poles apart during their design & development phases.
 
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Hi, Pls let me know if audition is possible. I am in Kolkata now. By the way any other Amp are on sale any idea . If yes pls let me know.
 
It was very interesting to know abt the Yahama Z-9 and you have really put it well in the forum by giving all pictures and details of the Beast.

Thanks for the appreciation samrat.:)

I am trying to lend some time and write a little bit of the 2000 to 2008 Uber AV amplifer era, but unfortunately failing due to lack of spare time. Anyway these weekends may help.
 
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