How much does off-axis response matter to you in your set up?

k-pad

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1. Did you plan your buy based on one-person critical listening, or multi-people seating?
2. Did you a. pay attention to frequency response? and if you did, b. did you give much credence to off-axis data?
3. Either way, irrespective of your room size, did you prioritize your own listening or that of other family members/guests also?
(Of course, not counting later room EQ; just your evaluation criteria for speaker selection)
 

Decadent_Spectre

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IMO rather than worrying about seating (unless your doing a multi seat HT) it is more prudent to worry about off axis response in how it will affect the sound for the listener(s). Irregularities can present strange sounds IMO. Something that has consistent response across stated coverage is better than something which rolls off frequencies off axis within stated coverage which is in turn preferable to something which is not symmetrical/smooth roll off in it's off axis in the stated coverage. As I recall most home audio speakers do not state vertical/horizontal coverage in their web pages. This leads me to believe you are either thinking about a pro product or some of the niche offerings in home audio, likely from America unless things have changed and home audio now lists coverage.

Just remember that whatever energy the speaker is putting out it is ALL radiated into the room, in the lower ranges it would likely radiate spherically (and bounce off surfaces), as such a lot of that energy is being reflected and probably reaching the listener(s) ears eventually as late reflections.
 

k-pad

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IMO rather than worrying about seating (unless your doing a multi seat HT) it is more prudent to worry about off axis response in how it will affect the sound for the listener(s).
Thinking of just a two-seater in a small room as of now.
Irregularities can present strange sounds IMO. Something that has consistent response across stated coverage is better than something which rolls off frequencies off axis within stated coverage which is in turn preferable to something which is not symmetrical/smooth roll off in it's off axis in the stated coverage.
Fully agree here. This matters for single listener too, especially if the side walls are close, as will be in my case.
As I recall most home audio speakers do not state vertical/horizontal coverage in their web pages. This leads me to believe you are either thinking about a pro product or some of the niche offerings in home audio, likely from America unless things have changed and home audio now lists coverage.
Not all pro products, but have been able to glean (third-party) vertical/horizontal coverage also for some of the easily available mass-market products also. Mercifully, most things that sound good to my ears seem to have decent data too.
It is a pain to search for measurements for any speaker, and even the few available online are third-party measurements. Wish more companies just put out their numbers on the product page.
Just remember that whatever energy the speaker is putting out it is ALL radiated into the room, in the lower ranges it would likely radiate spherically (and bounce off surfaces), as such a lot of that energy is being reflected and probably reaching the listener(s) ears eventually as late reflections.
Will our ears discern these late reflections or ignore them?
Is this also where room treatment helps?

Thanks for the insights.
 
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Decadent_Spectre

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Thinking of just a two-seater in a small room as of now.

Fully agree here. This matters for single listener too, especially if the side walls are close, as will be in my case.

Not all pro products, but have been able to glean (third-party) vertical/horizontal coverage also for some of the easily available mass-market products also. It is a pain to search for measurements for any speaker, and even the few available online are third-party measurements. Wish more companies just put out their numbers on the product page.

Will our ears discern these late reflections or ignore them?
Is this also where room treatment helps?

Thanks for the insights.

I would highly suggest optimizing for single listener if it's for music.

Are you talking about ASR? I personally take everything on ASR with the world's oceans worth of salt. Please let me say that while I understand science, I believe that audio is, and should be judged, subjectively. I don't mind the data but I rarely let it sway my decisions. This is the approach I recommend to everyone for audio/video unless they are hardcore objectivists.

Typically excess reflections, particularly late reflections will cause a lot of mud/loose/boom in the bass/midbass and in the mid/upper ranges will cause harshness and loss of detail/clarity, apart from this the general "cohesiveness" is lost. This assumes everything else is the same other than the reflections. It's not like distortion where there will be an obvious red flag, you won't know until you listen to the same setup with and without these reflections. Many people, I suspect, in regards to deficiencies are attributing to their system which is actually a reflection (and general time domain) problem. IMO people are too fixated on frequency.

Room treatments certainly helps. You will find various approaches to this. Personally I like a "dead" (heavily absorptive) room with some diffusion.

In closing, if you have 100 to spend on your system and you have to option to spend A) all of it on gear, B) Proper treatment, 20 on treatment and 80 on equipment, C) Minimal treatment, 5 on treatment and 95 on equipment. I highly highly highly recommend B). Most people have the mindset that gear will make more of a difference than treatment in that 80 vs 100 price range of equipment but this is not the case IMO, the 20 spent on treatment will yield rewards that the same 20 spent on gear never could.

I emphasize these are my views so YMMV.
 

k-pad

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I would highly suggest optimizing for single listener if it's for music.
Ya, looks like that is how it is headed with me.
Missus and I have vastly different tastes in music and it will just be one of us listening in the room at any given time.
Are you talking about ASR? I personally take everything on ASR with the world's oceans worth of salt. Please let me say that while I understand science, I believe that audio is, and should be judged, subjectively. I don't mind the data but I rarely let it sway my decisions. This is the approach I recommend to everyone for audio/video unless they are hardcore objectivists.
Not ASR. Don't they test only gear?
[EDIT: Just saw their speaker review index. Not much of a spread in terms of brands, but will check them out. Why are you so distrustful of their measurements? Curious]

Their gear measures seem to be objective and quite on target with what I read elsewhere.
I search for measurements, and for most brands i am interested in, there is data tested at the anechoic chamber at the NRC-Canada, which seems fairly trustworthy. For some of the European models, a couple of German publications do some good data.
One other site, I don't remember which, does a good waterfall graph, which are really helpful.
Typically excess reflections, particularly late reflections will cause a lot of mud/loose/boom in the bass/midbass and in the mid/upper ranges will cause harshness and loss of detail/clarity, apart from this the general "cohesiveness" is lost. This assumes everything else is the same other than the reflections. It's not like distortion where there will be an obvious red flag, you won't know until you listen to the same setup with and without these reflections. Many people, I suspect, in regards to deficiencies are attributing to their system which is actually a reflection (and general time domain) problem. IMO people are too fixated on frequency.
Got it, will keep this in mind.
Room treatments certainly helps. You will find various approaches to this. Personally I like a "dead" (heavily absorptive) room with some diffusion.

In closing, if you have 100 to spend on your system and you have to option to spend A) all of it on gear, B) Proper treatment, 20 on treatment and 80 on equipment, C) Minimal treatment, 5 on treatment and 95 on equipment. I highly highly highly recommend B). Most people have the mindset that gear will make more of a difference than treatment in that 80 vs 100 price range of equipment but this is not the case IMO, the 20 spent on treatment will yield rewards that the same 20 spent on gear never could.
Ya, B is what I am veering towards too... In my particular case, I may need to spend even more - on soundproofing, as one wall will be shared with the bedroom.

Thanks again, bro.
 
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Decadent_Spectre

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Ya, looks like that is how it is headed with me.
Missus and I have vastly different tastes in music and it will just be one of us listening in the room at any given time.

Not ASR. Don't they test only gear?
[EDIT: Just saw their speaker review index. Not much of a spread in terms of brands, but will check them out. Why are you so distrustful of their measurements? Curious]

Their gear measures seem to be objective and quite on target with what I read elsewhere.
I search for measurements, and for most brands i am interested in, there is data tested at the anechoic chamber at the NRC-Canada, which seems fairly trustworthy. For some of the European models, a couple of German publications do some good data.
One other site, I don't remember which, does a good waterfall graph, which are really helpful.

Got it, will keep this in mind.

Ya, B is what I am veering towards too... In my particular case, I may need to spend even more - on soundproofing, as one wall will be shared with the bedroom.

Thanks again, bro.

What genre of music do you listen to?

I am not distrustful of their measurements, it's more so a few things combined. For one I don't like the people at ASR. Secondly it has been stated in at least one review (don't remember which one) that they are a dealer for products, in the rview I was reading it said Harman products. At that point I stopped reading as for me they have no credibility. Thirdly they focus extensively on objectivity and take Harman "research" to be gospel truth. I abhor Harman, it's products, "research", everything it stands for and objectivists. I would rather give up the hobby than use Harman and/or become an objectivist again. I say this with disgust and shame as I was once upon a time an objectivist and I have seen the error of my ways.

Which websites do you use for data? Do you read AES papers?

While I don't mind discussing data lightly, I am highly averse to using it as a determinant factor for A/V purchases except for basic data such as dimensions,weight, sensitivity, max SPL and directivity. For example I may use the frequency response vs voltage vs impedance to understand 1W sensitivity in localized regions as well as where the speaker may have "strength" but I shy away from using that as a sound quality indicator.
 

k-pad

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What genre of music do you listen to?

I am not distrustful of their measurements, it's more so a few things combined. For one I don't like the people at ASR. Secondly it has been stated in at least one review (don't remember which one) that they are a dealer for products, in the rview I was reading it said Harman products. At that point I stopped reading as for me they have no credibility. Thirdly they focus extensively on objectivity and take Harman "research" to be gospel truth. I abhor Harman, it's products, "research", everything it stands for and objectivists. I would rather give up the hobby than use Harman and/or become an objectivist again. I say this with disgust and shame as I was once upon a time an objectivist and I have seen the error of my ways.

Which websites do you use for data? Do you read AES papers?

While I don't mind discussing data lightly, I am highly averse to using it as a determinant factor for A/V purchases except for basic data such as dimensions,weight, sensitivity, max SPL and directivity. For example I may use the frequency response vs voltage vs impedance to understand 1W sensitivity in localized regions as well as where the speaker may have "strength" but I shy away from using that as a sound quality indicator.
Haven't read AES papers. Will check.
Tks
 

Decadent_Spectre

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I don't think you'd have a problem with soundproofing those levels. IME glasswool works best. Let us know what you choose in the end.
 

k-pad

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I don't think you'd have a problem with soundproofing those levels. IME glasswool works best. Let us know what you choose in the end.
Will do.
Low frequencies do leak at current sound in a similar house I currently live in. :(
Will have to test in the new place and take a call.
Tks
 

Decadent_Spectre

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Will do.
Low frequencies do leak at current sound in a similar house I currently live in. :(
Will have to test in the new place and take a call.
Tks

I wouldn't think such levels are a problem. Most window ACs I have seen are 60+ in a quiet room on high fan. I do not know the construction of your homes but concrete helps a good deal, brick is weak at stopping sound. I also have implemented soundproofing to avoid disturbing the neighbors. You are probably aware of of this but layering the walls/sound proofing materials will greatly reduce the sound. The greater the layers and air gaps the greater the reduction in sound.
 

prateekatasniya

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Low frequencies even at 70 volume would go to 100 dBC or above when playing a movie as obviously movie doesn't have constant volume levels.
Proper isolation of the Subwoofer from the floor would help in reducing the transfer of vibrations to a certain extent - this being a low cost option when compared to complete sound isolation.
 

Decadent_Spectre

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Given his earlier posts I would think he was likely talking about db rather than % volume. Of course I may have assumed incorrectly. Please do clarify OP.
 

k-pad

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Low frequencies even at 70 volume would go to 100 dBC or above when playing a movie as obviously movie doesn't have constant volume levels.
Proper isolation of the Subwoofer from the floor would help in reducing the transfer of vibrations to a certain extent - this being a low cost option when compared to complete sound isolation.
Evening Prateek bhai, LFs do leak two rooms away (horrible, but true) even at 65dB for the likes of hip-hop, and for movies, even around 70-75 when the action kicks in.
(My bad, didn't specify in previous post)
The home minister doesn't mind the off-on LF leakage outside the room when I am watching movies, but with music it does get irritating to people outside the room.
The current house has brick walls, and the only saving grace is that the floor seems to be at least 18-inch concrete, and no complaints from downstairs neighbours.
and the next one will have block concrete (the hollow ones), which too from what I little i checked (both rooms were bare of course) is nothing great to contain LFs...
Will have to do some kind of damping+isolation I am afraid.


Given his earlier posts I would think he was likely talking about db rather than % volume. Of course I may have assumed incorrectly. Please do clarify OP.
Yes, Spectre, dBs.
 
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