How to choose correct Drivers for DIY speakers? need advice

[t.antony]

...but this thread can be a basic guideline for the new DIY members...

It's hard to generalize this topic as every design will have some strengths and compromises, strengths will be based on the requirements and compromises mainly occur due to the design constraints.

Considering a simple case with minimal options.

1) Requirements
- Music and HT use
- Loud and clean
- Finishing and WAF

2) Constraints
- Room size
- Speakers need to be closer to the rear walls
- Cost

Taking all the above into account, a typical workflow could be like this

- Decide enclosure type --sealed, ported, TL, OB, Horn...
- Choose crossover type -- 2 way, 2.1 way, 3 way, 3.1 way, 4 way... , Active or passive
- Choose drivers --mainly depends on the crossover selection and cost
- Design crossover -- (passive)depends on the measured data of the drivers, enclosure type, and crossover frequencies ( there will be more headroom for experimentation with active crossovers)
- Construct enclosure
- Do a dry run -- connect the crossovers and drivers to the enclosure, measure the results and tweak the crossover accordingly
- Final finish of the enclosure -- Crossover tweaks could happen even after the speaker is placed at the intended location in the room

 

[spirovious]

Thanks Sumanta for guiding us.Open baffle is a little difficult considering the space.Bookshelf is the only option left for me.For others your advice certainly will be useful.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Thanks Sumanta for guiding us.Open baffle is a little difficult considering the space.Bookshelf is the only option left for me.For others your advice certainly will be useful.

I think you are not looking for a quality sound and hence considering a bookshelf. But if i am not mistaken you already have a Tannoy bookshelf and why would you want to build another one. Are you going to try your newly acquired skills vis-a-vis Tannoy? There is a lot to building speakers than the few points mentioned and you should take a holistic approach rather than a peace meal approach to achieve success. Maybe we can discuss when we meet to get all your points clarified.

All the best in your quest for the ulitmate sounding speakers.

 

[spirovious]

Thanks Hari,we will meet some other day & try some solution.There is no extra space to keep large speakers.Thats why I dropped idea of TL sub in past.

 

[navin advani]

Well,I have no intention to design myself,but surely with the help of good designer.

If you enlist the help of a professional speaker designer then the cost of his/her services would have to be added to the speaker.

I read that basic BS speakers can be built for Rs.10000 around.I will look for a solution in the price range around Rs.15-18K.

Sure. But in the 10K price range the Danny Richie group buy would be a fantastic option and in my opinion very very hard to beat.

I think you are not looking for a quality sound and hence considering a bookshelf.

Hari I know you are a big TL fan and so am I but it is not correct to state that a bookshelf cannot provide quality sound. Even Irving (Bud) Fried would not have made so bold a statement.

BTW anyone here ever heard his "Pregnant lady"? Superb dynamics. I think it was the first TL I ever heard.

 

[Flash]

Sprio,
Building a BS based on Peerless drivers.
I have not found the time to start on the cabinet as yet. I have a couple of cabinet builds in the pipleine as well for Forum members. (based On Danny's drivers)

Hopefully i find time to commence the cab build next week . I am waiting for some equipment to reach me . Its stuck in customs at the moment .
I have called for this from the US

Audio Spectrum Analyzer and Acoustics Software


Anyway once i have the BS built will send it across to you for you to home audition. Once fedup courier it back to me .hyeah:

 

[spirovious]

Sprio,
Building a BS based on Peerless drivers.
I have not found the time to start on the cabinet as yet. I have a couple of cabinet builds in the pipleine as well for Forum members. (based On Danny's drivers)
:

So I can atleast get chance to listen them later.

 

[BLASTO]

Hi friends,

I am very new to this section of forum.

Now there are some more facts we all would like to know from DIY experts.like-

1.How to combine the Driver?Selection?

2.How to select sensitivity of Drivers?

3.How to selecting Driver material?

4.Crossover?

5.The perfect sound?

So experts,pls.do guide for building DIY speakers.Dont forget to mention the required budget too.

Thanks.

Hey Spiro,
Answer youself the below questions before you seek answers for your questions.

1) Why are you trying the DIY route? Is it because you are really interested or because there is a section in the forum that you dint venture into? If it is the latter keep away.

2) If it is the former, what is it you are missing in the speakers costing same as your budget for DIY that you want to improve in your DIY speakers? How much do the speakers which 'do' have those characters cost? If they cost same or less that your DIY budget + cost of yout TIME (per hour) for reading, designing, fine tuning the speakers, buy them and call it a day.

3) If they cost more that the DIY spekers cost, what is the risk your are taking for 'failure' to get the sound you require? How confident are you that it can be even made by you?

4) While discussions range from speaker characters, soundstage, resolution, coherence, room effects etc when 'choosing' speakers outside of DIY section, In DIY section, it is always drivers, cabinets, crossover etc and very little about the sound itself. Are you equipped enough to 'translate' terms like drivers, cabinets, crossover etc into terms like characters, soundstage, resolution, coherence, room effects? How much effort is needed for that? Are you in for it?

5) Finally, Where do you start and where do you end? If you do not have the passion and rely on only getting 'better' speakers for 'lower' budget, keep away. If you are unsure of the final sound 'before' you start, keep away. If your sole purpose is to cut-out middle men, keep away. We dont go ahead and build houses instead of buying flats even knowing it costs more and has arguably lesser quality. Main factor is time and determination. I don't think this is any different.


No offense, but I see blanket statements like DIY speakers for 20k will beat 80k speakers in the market. But do you really like 'that' 1L Rs speaker is the question. To me, it looks like we are very stringent on 'selecting' speakers than accepting what we made by DIY end of the day. Just providing an alternate view point.



As usual, Professional DIY speaker makers, this is not for you. Don't pool in with your 'usual' comments.

 

[navin advani]

As usual, Professional DIY speaker makers, this is not for you. Don't pool in with your 'usual' comments.

What's a Professional DIY? Either you are Professional or DIY you cant be both.

 

[BLASTO]

What's a Professional DIY? Either you are Professional or DIY you cant be both.

Well thats what I thought too.
But there are people who buy DIY kits, assemble them and sell them. I was mentioning them.
They have the expertise of making speakers in 2 digit numbers atleast and are much better off than first timers.

 

[spirovious]

Well Blasto,
I have already mentioned that I am raw to speaker building.That doesnt mean its not my way.The experts are not born experts.They must have started at some point & experience make them better.So I don't understand comments from many here like "Why do you want to build if you have no experience".The word itself express that it need time.No one can become expert in one day.Yes,some members advice can make me aware how difficult it is for new comer to make perfect sounding DIY speaker at first attempts.I accept their guidance.

Now what I miss from current set up,yes some fine details & bass extension.I can say that as I have paired my Tannoy with some better amps like Emotiva,Kenwood,Norge.

My thread can be not only for me,but others who are thinking to build their 1st DIY speakers.So if I am confident to get better sound for said budget, I will certainly go ahead.

Cheers.

 

[manniraj]

Very well said spiro..

Even I am also on the verge of starting my own DIY sub with the help of the gr research sub driver that I am getting with the groupby. I am sure that I may not succeed 100% in my first attempt but this will not deter me to venture again. But I am sure I will do better atleast 10% compared to my earlier attempt. I believe DIY is not only to get something at a cheaper cost or well built one but to feel that its you who have created something out of nothing and gives you the satisfaction even if it fails.

Thanks.

 

[doors666]

Well Blasto,
I have already mentioned that I am raw to speaker building.That doesnt mean its not my way.The experts are not born experts.They must have started at some point & experience make them better.So I don't understand comments from many here like "Why do you want to build if you have no experience".The word itself express that it need time.No one can become expert in one day.Yes,some members advice can make me aware how difficult it is for new comer to make perfect sounding DIY speaker at first attempts.I accept their guidance.

Now what I miss from current set up,yes some fine details & bass extension.I can say that as I have paired my Tannoy with some better amps like Emotiva,Kenwood,Norge.

My thread can be not only for me,but others who are thinking to build their 1st DIY speakers.So if I am confident to get better sound for said budget, I will certainly go ahead.

Cheers.

check out the a thread in stickies on parts express tech talk forum, its called speaker building bible.

if you dont have measurement equipment, there is a guide explaining how to tune speakers by ear at paul carmody's undefinition site. try to get your hands on loudspeaker design cookbook.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Hari I know you are a big TL fan and so am I but it is not correct to state that a bookshelf cannot provide quality sound. Even Irving (Bud) Fried would not have made so bold a statement.

Nothing about being a TL fan or being personal about TL. Personally for me its difficult to design a good bookshelf (sealed or Ported) given the constraints of drivers, enclosure size, cross-overs etc compared to that of a TL due to tight tolerance. There are many software's that can simulate a sealed/vented box for a design (i use winisd). The cross-over may not be majorly differnt than that for a TL too. My point is given the same driver it would rather sound better in a TL rather than a book-shelf hence the comment.
Cheers,

 

[spirovious]

check out the a thread in stickies on parts express tech talk forum, its called speaker building bible.

if you dont have measurement equipment, there is a guide explaining how to tune speakers by ear at paul carmody's undefinition site. try to get your hands on loudspeaker design cookbook.

Thanks doors666,
I am posting a link suggested by you.May help others too.-
The Speaker Building Bible - Thread opened for edits/input. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

Beginners (like me),pls.go through this page & learn technical parameters-
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-301

 

[spirovious]

Just thought of adding some basic DIY I tried 18yrs back(School days).I had made some DIY home made speakers(not hifi) with 4 ohms drivers(local).Instead of crossover,I just placed a capacitor in series with tweeter.Both Drivers were connected parallel.
Secondly a step ahead,I even tried to re-cone a speaker myself.I had some car speaker cages,I got the speaker cone,coil,spider & rest.The setting the coil in the spider was a task.Some how managed,speaker started working,but some distortion at higher volume.
I didn't have any special equipments,but some how I could manage.Now its time for serious job if possible.

 

[doors666]

also check with suman ranjan (I hope i am not getting his name wrong). he's on this forum as well as on diyaudio. he designed the rediscovery using ss8531 and ss discovery tweeter 9130 i think. its being sold at madisound. he used inexpensive sennheiser headphones and test tones to do this.

try to stick to drivers for which you are reasonably sure of its t/s parameters. That could get difficult if you are sourcing the drivers here. if measurements from third party are available on the net, thats the best. that will help you a lot with the crossover as well as the cabinet design. the usualy places too look for such things is zaphaudio.com, audioheuristics.com etc. these sites are a boon to the people making speakers. To look for used drivers, if you are interested (an advantage of this is that many times the seller has measured that particular driver and they happily provide the data), check parts express sale forum, diyaudio sale forum and diyma (usually for car audio, but many times awesome home audio drivers appear there).

read the existing speaker designs from most of the speaker designers websites. the designs usually have tons of info about how and why they are doing many things.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Just thought of adding some basic DIY I tried 18yrs back(School days).I had made some DIY home made speakers(not hifi) with 4 ohms drivers(local).Instead of crossover,I just placed a capacitor in series with tweeter.Both Drivers were connected parallel.
Secondly a step ahead,I even tried to re-cone a speaker myself.I had some car speaker cages,I got the speaker cone,coil,spider & rest.The setting the coil in the spider was a task.Some how managed,speaker started working,but some distortion at higher volume.
I didn't have any special equipments,but some how I could manage.Now its time for serious job if possible.

Now i know why you are a Doctor.

 

[Flash]

Hey Spiro,

2) If it is the former, what is it you are missing in the speakers costing same as your budget for DIY that you want to improve in your DIY speakers? How much do the speakers which 'do' have those characters cost? If they cost same or less that your DIY budget + cost of yout TIME (per hour) for reading, designing, fine tuning the speakers, buy them and call it a day.

3) If they cost more that the DIY spekers cost, what is the risk your are taking for 'failure' to get the sound you require? How confident are you that it can be even made by you?

4) While discussions range from speaker characters, soundstage, resolution, coherence, room effects etc when 'choosing' speakers outside of DIY section, In DIY section, it is always drivers, cabinets, crossover etc and very little about the sound itself. Are you equipped enough to 'translate' terms like drivers, cabinets, crossover etc into terms like characters, soundstage, resolution, coherence, room effects? How much effort is needed for that? Are you in for it?

5) Finally, Where do you start and where do you end? If you do not have the passion and rely on only getting 'better' speakers for 'lower' budget, keep away. If you are unsure of the final sound 'before' you start, keep away. If your sole purpose is to cut-out middle men, keep away. We dont go ahead and build houses instead of buying flats even knowing it costs more and has arguably lesser quality. Main factor is time and determination. I don't think this is any different.

No offense, but I see blanket statements like DIY speakers for 20k will beat 80k speakers in the market. But do you really like 'that' 1L Rs speaker is the question. To me, it looks like we are very stringent on 'selecting' speakers than accepting what we made by DIY end of the day. Just providing an alternate view point.

I completely agree with you Blasto . Building your own loudspeaker from the ground up is not a walk in the park .
its not about slapping some drivers in a box thinking that it would be better than a equivalent commercial product.

It part science + part patience + part knowledge + part black magic

 

[avidyarthy]

It part science + part patience + part knowledge + part black magic

+ close to 80% cabinet design and whats inside it (other than the driver, cross-over, wire qualities)