How to get depth in a stereo setup?

I found this paper that supports the idea that controlled directivity may enhance the perception of proximity (or distance) with loudspeaker reproduction, but I wonder if the implications of the D/R ratio also (direct-to-reverberant energy ratio) apply to placement and room treatment…

https://asa.scitation.org/doi/10.1121/1.4921678

Given the complexity of the relationships and interactions between the many factors I think it’s far more practical to use “by the ear” method mentioned by @prem
Experience in listening and dedication to tweaking would matter much.

Now wondering if or what impact would room correction (eg: Dirac) have on this
 
Now wondering if or what impact would room correction (eg: Dirac) have on this
one of many approaches in getting good audio is to keep your chain at the shortest (subject to component ) . so adding an additional component in some way does additionally affect the purity of the signal.

Why add something more to the chain for something which is anyway artificial ( eg Soundstage) and lose out in something which is far more important ( Tone)
 
one of many approaches in getting good audio is to keep your chain at the shortest (subject to component ) . so adding an additional component in some way does additionally affect the purity of the signal.

Why add something more to the chain for something which is anyway artificial ( eg Soundstage) and lose out in something which is far more important ( Tone)
Is it not possible to get both at the same time, to a degree at least?
 

Use above playlist for speaker placement.
Early post fellow members have shared youtube video from same album.
 
I did not give the spotify link since I found the youtube video having a better resolution ( whatever you can consider youtube to be :) ) I have the original cd ie the chesky pressing and its wonderful.
 
At home I have been unable to get the hollow sound of a percussion instrument. Maybe my system lacks the resolution or I am doing something wrong. I haven’t been able to figure it.

What I try and ensure is at least the basics are right. The diction of the singer at least should sound correct. That’s something I have been able to manage with my system at home.

Good for you Prem. Nice descriptions.

I have run classic vintage ALTEC 515B alnico woofers for 9 years now, and they have been in my family for 38 years. On 12-12-22, I installed a later, ferrite magnet 515G model. The diction was improved and it only took me ONE day to make up my mind.....the classic alnico 515Bs ............HAD to be sold.

Replacement 515 FRAMES are now at GPA, getting reconed - as a close-matching stereo pair. We LIVE in the midrange, and I, seemingly like you, give high priority to understanding the spoken or sung words !!!

But you know Prem, I didn't understand one word, of what you wrote, to be your diction listening reference . I thought that was funny .:)

Educate me please someone, what is that language properly/specifically called ?? Thanks.
 
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The question that first must be answered is:
Can you determine, with your eyed closed, which object is closer to you compared to other, only by listening. I am not talking about recording being replayed over speakers. I am talking about live situation, direct sound coming to your ears.
 
In my experience with high-efficiency Altecs, the crossover makes a big difference to how the soundstage is presented. When you get that going, the difference between Triode & Ultralinear (Valve) makes a difference, never tried Pentode or any sort of feedback (NFB or CFB), so can't say what happens there.
 
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I Always Find this simple hack of Cross Connection of Speaker Cables along the binding posts, gets me better Depth in stereo, along with better instrumental separation.

Could be mostly a Subjective Opinion but I'd love to hear other FMs experience with this kind of connection. This is quite simple, attaching pics for reference...

IMG_20230223_091628_88RGTApR2d.jpegIMG_20230223_091528_joTg77JE5n.jpeg
 
I Always Find this simple hack of Cross Connection of Speaker Cables along the binding posts, gets me better Depth in stereo, along with better instrumental separation.

Could be mostly a Subjective Opinion but I'd love to hear other FMs experience with this kind of connection. This is quite simple, attaching pics for reference...

View attachment 75360View attachment 75361
Qacoustics recommends this type of wiring. But Iam glad I couldn't hear a difference trying this implementation. Imagine the number of combinations possible with 3 pairs of binding posts and 2 polarities 😝😝😝. Enough to drive one crazy with the experiments 🤣🤣

1.I've recently been reading a lot on the headphone forums. And they all talk about depth like it is constant on all their gear. Considering that we use the same gear. My best guess is that loss of depth is a casualty of the speaker room interaction.

2.And it's not easy to perceive depth because of how our ears are placed left and right, and not on our nose and behind. So we can easily perceive left and right paning of instruments, but not the exact depth.

3. To add to the above woes, psychoacoustic research has shown that at mid to lower frequencies, the brain clubs all incoming sounds within a 5 ms interval. Which means that a speaker and sub placed within a distance of 1.7 mtrs from each other will sound like one unified source. So with the brains inherent inability to measure distance of 1.7 mtr in mid to low frequencies, we are totally dependent on the treble to give that perception of depth.

4. To add to point no. 3, I have seen folks claiming more depth and air with the addition of super tweeters. Technically it makes sense to me now. But even with addition of super tweeters I can't fathom any improvements in depth. Guess with my hearing, it's like putting lipstick on a pig 🤣🤣🤣

Thought I'd add an additional point no. 5 to the above post. Though it might be very specific to my particular room, with it being too small.

I've found that sitting in a equilateral triangle or close to a equilateral triangle in a near field setup. With the speakers pulled out from the walls gives a good perception of depth. Probably because the reflected sound is reaching my ears with a delay. As per Linn, if listener to tweeter distance is X. Then tweeter to tweeter distance should be 83% of X, to get optimum depth. Maybe folks can give it a try for free, and see 😜
 
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On my ATCs these metal clips sound horrible. I'm using a pair of high quality jumpers from JPS labs.
That's because they made that metal clip like a step. Bass gets a free pass while poor treble has to climb two floors to reach 😝😝

On my ATCs these metal clips sound horrible. I'm using a pair of high quality jumpers from JPS labs.
But on a serious note, I felt a discernable difference when I replaced the metal joining bar with a jumper cable I made from some cheap supra cable I had on hand. I in fact think that the improvements claimed with biwirable cables is actually a result of removing the cheap metal jumper bar between the binding posts.
 
But on a serious note, I felt a discernable difference when I replaced the metal joining bar with a jumper cable I made from some cheap supra cable I had on hand. I in fact think that the improvements claimed with biwirable cables is actually a result of removing the cheap metal jumper bar between the binding posts.
Yep the improvements that people claim due to biwiring are actually due to removal of this lousy metal clip.
 
Qacoustics recommends this type of wiring. But Iam glad I couldn't hear a difference trying this implementation. Imagine the number of combinations possible with 3 pairs of binding posts and 2 polarities 😝😝😝. Enough to drive one crazy with the experiments 🤣🤣
The only reason Q acoustic could be recommending this could be to increase the space between the positive and negative making it much safer against a short.

I Always Find this simple hack of Cross Connection of Speaker Cables along the binding posts, gets me better Depth in stereo, along with better instrumental separation.

Could be mostly a Subjective Opinion but I'd love to hear other FMs experience with this kind of connection. This is quite simple, attaching pics for reference...

View attachment 75360View attachment 75361
That's interesting.This shouldn't make any sound difference( in Theory) ,other than the practical benefit of more spacing between positive and negative making it safe against a short .
But if you have heard a sound difference , who am I to comment.
 
On my ATCs these metal clips sound horrible. I'm using a pair of high quality jumpers from JPS labs.
Can you share the Pictures, Model etc? Also Can you check with Cross Connection of Speaker Cables along the binding posts and see if you hear any difference?

But if you have heard a sound difference , who am I to comment.
Not Only me, 2 other Audiophiles did hear the difference, it was blind for them (cause I didn't tell them which one is which). But they clearly preferred the Regular side by side connection, vs Cross. I have done this experiment umpteen number of times in last 2 years over 3 different set of speakers (Namely B&W 804 D3 floorstanders, 802D Floorstander and JBL 4429 Monitor speakers) and I Clearly prefer the Cross Connection, but only in certain songs the difference is easily evident btw.
That's why I'm asking other FMs to try it out, if you haven't already, even if the inference is Negative it doesn't matter, you've proved that there's no sonic difference.
 
Can you share the Pictures, Model etc? Also Can you check with Cross Connection of Speaker Cables along the binding posts and see if you hear any difference?


Mine has spades instead of bananas. Ignore the price - I bought them used and paid the equivalent of 150$.
 
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