I seriously need help

[Vj@HiFi]

The honeymoon is over.

Over the past few weeks (in fact months) I have been trying to listen to music on my system and after a few tracks I just give up. The sound is just no more to my satisfaction. I don't know what has gone wrong, but my system just simply does not impress me any more! I haven't changed anything since I bought it about 3 years ago and am coming up stumps on what to do.

The equipment consists of a Denon 1909 AVR, Wharfdale 9.6 towers, Whardale SW150 sub and Wharfedale center. My primary source is the WDTV (v1.0) as I have converted my CDs into flacs and store them on the WD HDD. The ease of switching tracks on the WDTV makes me not bother with the Pioneer 410 player so it sits forlorn and neglected.

I am fully aware that all that equipment put together above will be considered by many as 'ordinary'. But I distinctly remember that the sound was not bad when it all started. And now, I feel it is as if its just been ordinarily amplified and being played over ordinary speakers. When the spaceship brakes away from mother ship carrying Jake Sully to Pandora in the beginning of Avatar, I could feel the rumble of those retro jets on my sofa. Or when Jake's Avatar is running for the first time the background score used to make me understand Jake's rediscovery of his legs! Its not just the movies, listening to music is worse. The sound doesn't seem involving anymore, I don't hear detail, just .... noise!

However I believe that there is nothing wrong with the speakers or the AVR, because the an occasional HD movie over the cable set top box, the soundtrack shines. 'The Mentalist' or a Kylie Kwong background score still comes good. All this makes me think that something is amiss with the WDTV being used as a source.

I read somewhere here that one should 'rewire' the whole setup every few months (meaning loosening and tightening all terminations), been doing that. What am I missing here. A new HDMI cable, a new source, a new set of ears?

Friends, please help!

(PS, I don't know where this thread belongs to, but since I suspect my media streaming player, I have put it here. Mods, do move it where it actually should be)

 

[gopib]

If you are suspecting WDTV I suggest you check the power. If it is a wallwart check the output for whatever is marked on the unit. Checking the other wiring would be the next step. If some of these were not properly connected or have loosened for whatever reasons.

 

[gobble]

The honeymoon is over.

You got it right! Get a divorce from your Hifey! hyeah: Sell the gear and consider the difference between the price you paid and the price you get as alimony.

It is normal in the journey of Hifi to find disappointment a year down the line. Thats why audiophiles keep upgrading - from $1000 gear to $2000 and on to $5000 .. for those who can afford it. So don't blame yourself for liking $500 gear yesterday and disliking it today. Its like the morning after ... full of regrets ... and the fear of catching something or being stuck with something thats for keeps ...

Its like that ugly gal you once slept with because some magical chemistry drew you together (maybe the dials and knobs were nice looking.. or the faceplate and rear connectors looked handy? ) but don't want the world to know ...

Cheer up .. don't hit the bottle ... or go near a railway track ... there is hope :cheers:

--G0bble

 

[musicbee]

Just to test... did you connect the Pioneer and see if it still sounds as it did before and better than the WDTV for the same movies and music?

At least that will help identify the fault is at the source and then you can have WDTV checked up for any malfunction unless as gobble states you are suffering from upgrade-itis.

 

[iaudio]

vijaihifi, were you using any kind of equaliser setting on your AVR?

 

[Shivam]

Is there a phase switch on the sub? That maybe the culprit if you can't feel the rumble that you used to feel earlier.

 

[Rupam]

Just a question, did you mess up your room acoustics? Added any new furniture or moved the sub too close to the wall? Is the set up of your room exactly as it is when your honeymoon started?

May be your should start experimenting with new position along with your wharfs... and find that sweet spot again.

 

[Nikhil]

The honeymoon is over.


The equipment consists of a Denon 1909 AVR, Wharfdale 9.6 towers, Whardale SW150 sub and Wharfedale center. My primary source is the WDTV (v1.0) as I have converted my CDs into flacs and store them on the WD HDD. The ease of switching tracks on the WDTV makes me not bother with the Pioneer 410 player so it sits forlorn and

....

However I believe that there is nothing wrong with the speakers or the AVR, because the an occasional HD movie over the cable set top box, the soundtrack shines. 'The Mentalist' or a Kylie Kwong background score still comes good. All this makes me think that something is amiss with the WDTV being used as

Your WD TV is where your trouble is. Put your Pioneer back into the chain and you wil be good.

 

[NetFreak]

All this makes me think that something is amiss with the WDTV being used as a source.

Given that:

1. You are using FLAC
2. WDTV is connected to AVR digitally (HDMI)

Source should not matter at all. Just to be sure, you can connect a CP player and do a comparison.

 

[Vj@HiFi]

If you are suspecting WDTV I suggest you check the power. If it is a wallwart check the output for whatever is marked on the unit. Checking the other wiring would be the next step. If some of these were not properly connected or have loosened for whatever reasons.

No problem with the power supply, for sure..

 

[Vj@HiFi]

Dang, I forgot the multi-quote!

vijaihifi, were you using any kind of equaliser setting on your AVR?

Turns out I wasn't, but now I am! I just wanted to boost the mids ranges up a bit, though that has not made any major change!

Is there a phase switch on the sub? That maybe the culprit if you can't feel the rumble that you used to feel earlier.

I have tried the phase switch, but I think its at the right setting. Actually the LFE is the least of my worries, there is something missing in mid range, or so I feel.

Just a question, did you mess up your room acoustics? Added any new furniture or moved the sub too close to the wall? Is the set up of your room exactly as it is when your honeymoon started?

May be your should start experimenting with new position along with your wharfs... and find that sweet spot again.

No, the arrangement hasn't changed at all in the last 2-3 years.

My Towers are about 2' from the rear wall and about a foot away from the side, the woofer sits pretty close to the wall, but there are limits to how much the speakers can be brought forward. You are right, I need to experiment a little more.

Your WD TV is where your trouble is. Put your Pioneer back into the chain and you wil be good.

I need to make a A or B comparison between the WDTV and Pioneer. I'll get back to you on this. The Pio HDMI link socket is out, unfortunately.

Given that:

1. You are using FLAC
2. WDTV is connected to AVR digitally (HDMI)

Source should not matter at all. Just to be sure, you can connect a CP player and do a comparison.

That is exactly what I thought, however there are going to be limits to what the WDTV itself does to the digital content, meaning the decoding may (or can) not be as good as a dedicated player. Will putting a DAC in between make a difference?

There is another potential problem: What if the very source of my flacs is not good. I have a Ustad Vilayat Khans CD which I made flacs out of, I cannot hear the bass of the Tabla (dagga) at all! At the same time Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' is still fun, but not breathtakingly so, anymore. So something is off for sure!

 

[corElement]

This story reminds me of me starting my hifi journey in 2005, went from 7.1 to 6.1 to 5.1 to 4.0 to 2.1 to now 2.0.

I came to the same realization as you, the sound started sounding ordinary, not involving, turned into noise.

So I sold off my home theatre stuff and invested the same amount of money into a dedicated stereo setup with high end components vs multiple low/medium components. Now I'm completely happy with it even though the sound isnt as "in your face" as a home theatre can be.

If my story sounds anything like whats on your mind, just save yourself the pain and sell off everything and invest in a good stereo setup. Sure you'll have to put in a bit more cash and more effort but it's worth the effort.

However if you have no interest in changing your setup, Do this..

Use the pure stereo mode and disable any and all fancy settings and just use pure stereo to feed the 9.6's whenever you want to listen to just music.
When it's not in pure stereo mode, the sound is basically getting raped to get divided between multiple speakers and a subwoofer.

 

[NetFreak]

What if the very source of my flacs is not good. I have a Ustad Vilayat Khans CD which I made flacs out of, I cannot hear the bass of the Tabla (dagga) at all! At the same time Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' is still fun, but not breathtakingly so, anymore. So something is off for sure!

Fortunately, that is an easy problem to diagnose. Download / Generate WAV files for specific frequencies and see the response on SubWoofer / Fronts.

You can use a tool like : "The Audio Test File Generator"

 

[Vj@HiFi]

I finally managed an A with B comparison with the WDTV and Pioneer 410V.

Well for one, it seems that the HDMI port is working when I changed the cable but that was because the component ports were giving me only one channel. Anyway there is a difference in the sound all right. It does sound better on the CD player (actually DVD player, isn't it?)

BUT, its still boomy. I tried first to switch off the sub completely, then tweaked the AVR manual equaliser settings... In comparison WDTV sounds very un-involving (is that a real word, but you get me).

I know you guys are going to point me to the simple truth: "CHANGE YOUR SOURCE".. But here is a stupid question: What can be a good replacement for WDTV as a source instead of buying a regular CA, Denon or an OPPO(?) player? Actually, as I have said earlier, I like the ease of switching tracks on the fly, instead flipping CDs.

Am I asking for too much?

But wait, did I also hear somebody muttering that I need to also chuck that AVR and the Wharfies... Oh no, here we go again.. Gobbles, am I up for more slaughter?

 

[Shivam]

.

I know you guys are going to point me to the simple truth: "CHANGE YOUR SOURCE".. But here is a stupid question: What can be a good replacement for WDTV as a source instead of buying a regular CA, Denon or an OPPO(?) player? Actually, as I have said earlier, I like the ease of switching tracks on the fly, instead flipping CDs.

Am I asking for too much?

I use a Musical Fidelity M1 Clic as source.
Audio files from a NAS over wifi.
iPad as a controller.

Another inexpensive option is the Logitech squeezebox touchscreen player.

 

[Vj@HiFi]

This story reminds me of me starting my hifi journey in 2005, went from 7.1 to 6.1 to 5.1 to 4.0 to 2.1 to now 2.0.

I came to the same realization as you, the sound started sounding ordinary, not involving, turned into noise.

So I sold off my home theatre stuff and invested the same amount of money into a dedicated stereo setup with high end components vs multiple low/medium components. Now I'm completely happy with it even though the sound isnt as "in your face" as a home theatre can be.

If my story sounds anything like whats on your mind, just save yourself the pain and sell off everything and invest in a good stereo setup. Sure you'll have to put in a bit more cash and more effort but it's worth the effort.

However if you have no interest in changing your setup, Do this..

Use the pure stereo mode and disable any and all fancy settings and just use pure stereo to feed the 9.6's whenever you want to listen to just music.
When it's not in pure stereo mode, the sound is basically getting raped to get divided between multiple speakers and a subwoofer.

corElement,

I have done what you have suggested several times but the experience is uneven. I probably do not have quality rips. Since the system is used primarily for TV, the music listening time is rather limited. I know I could always use a good 2.0 system while watching TV too but the whole exercise of auditioning, choosing, buying and also selling the existing set up seems too daunting as of now, which is why I am looking for a simpler option of just buying a good source. The premise being that the gear that I have is not so bad that it needs to be chucked! It needs to be optimised. I wish someone could come over!

Will an HTPC with a good audio card, (ASUS Xonar?), an optical drive to read the CDs when quality calls and the hard drive for everyday run of the mill watching White Collar or the umpteenth rerun of Avatar, do the trick?

 

[marsilians]

If you have suddenly started to not enjoy your system, then your ears have gotten used to it basically and picking up the deficiencies. Before going on a wild goose chase, you may want to try from the cheapest to the more expensive options - adjust room treatments (rearrange furniture and/or system placement if possible), also carpeting, drapes make a big difference. You may also want to check with your music files. How did you rip them to flac? WD TV is not necessarily the best resolving transport, thats the reason the DVDP may be sounding better though I dont have first hand experience with it.

Observe and post what changes you can perceive then we can go on to more expensive options

 

[NetFreak]

Anyway there is a difference in the sound all right. It does sound better on the CD player (actually DVD player, isn't it?)

BUT, its still boomy. I tried first to switch off the sub completely, then tweaked the AVR manual equaliser settings... In comparison WDTV sounds very un-involving (is that a real word, but you get me).

Did you play the same song on WDTV and CDP? And was the song ripped from the same CD?

Reason for asking this is, if song was sourced from elsewhere, it might have been a poor rip.

 

[echo77]

Your ears have got used to it, so the extra that you used to hear is now considered by your ears to be normal. Go and listen to some crap system for some days, then your stuff will start sounding good again

Since I can't play music aloud, I have a number of earphones/headphones over the years. Each one progressively of better quality. The better one sounds good for a couple of months of buying but then my ears get used to it. To know how good it really is, I switch back to one of the old lower quality ones and the difference is so obvious.

If you have no limit on how much you can spend, go ahead and buy higher quality stuff, but you'll end up with the same result down the line.

 

[aakashr]

how about running audyssey setup again.............that works like a charm every time for me.