Indian and International Pricing

[srinisundar]

Venkat & Anil


Apart from this, we need to make sure that we put in the following rules :
1). No User Should be allowed to disclose the prices they got the particular product @, specially the exact amount. Yes they can say that we have got 5-10% or 8-12% off from MRP, or something like that. Every individual has there bargaining capacity and every reseller is there to earn, and it all depends on the comfort level between the reseller and the customer...So by placing the prices, you are just putting up the product price specific...This practice shud be stopped...Users are free to Post any offers, schemes going on with any reseller, but definitely not the discount...

2). People commenting on Overseas Purchase thru some website, etc, shud scan and place the bill of complete amount paid...Otherwise most of the members on the forum, start talking and favoring the half knowledged stuff, and blame the resellers...

Once this Forum is growing, somethings, needs to be strict...which favours each n evry one...

Good one by Mridul, well i can accept the intial points told by him... exactly like favoring members later you landing on your point.

Price posting is necessary here... It helps a lot, it is not like USA or other countries dealer and distributors are keeping margin in a low level... Each dealer/ different price is different and for some products are running in thousands. Our community is growing strongly because of the saving factor.

Posting of the bill for abroad is not necessary here, since everybody could access the abroad rate of sellers very easily and it is an open market with visible pricelist,,, eg.. we can take amazon as an landmark price for usa /uk / japan.

Hope everybody will agree for this.

 

[mridulgoel]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Good one by Mridul, well i can accept the intial points told by him... exactly like favoring members later you landing on your point.

Price posting is necessary here... It helps a lot, it is not like USA or other countries dealer and distributors are keeping margin in a low level... Each dealer/ different price is different and for some products are running in thousands. Our community is growing strongly because of the saving factor.

Posting of the bill for abroad is not necessary here, since everybody could access the abroad rate of sellers very easily and it is an open market with visible pricelist,,, eg.. we can take amazon as an landmark price for usa /uk / japan.

Hope everybody will agree for this.

My fight is not for US/UK price... Even i favour posting the overseas prices out here..What i am saying in here is the Exchange Price and Customs, and Bla Bla Bla.. all put together the price...

 

[srinisundar]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Yes, I agree what you are telling here, but members at the time of aruging for tax structure before writing should validate with proofs if they have purchased... I have seen tax structure is totaly different if we bring by courier / cargo/ EMS.

My fight is not for US/UK price... Even i favour posting the overseas prices out here..What i am saying in here is the Exchange Price and Customs, and Bla Bla Bla.. all put together the price...

 

[gobble]

Good one by Mridul, well i can accept the intial points told by him... exactly like favoring members later you landing on your point.

Price posting is necessary here... It helps a lot, it is not like USA or other countries dealer and distributors are keeping margin in a low level... Each dealer/ different price is different and for some products are running in thousands. Our community is growing strongly because of the saving factor.

Posting of the bill for abroad is not necessary here, since everybody could access the abroad rate of sellers very easily and it is an open market with visible pricelist,,, eg.. we can take amazon as an landmark price for usa /uk / japan.

Hope everybody will agree for this.

Absolutely. This forum needs to be a consumer oriented one not a dealer oriented one. We have a right to be informed. The problem needs to be solved for India as a whole - there is complete absence of rationalistic pricing model. Everything is totally opportunistic. Agreed volume of sale is one factor that makes this a challenge. But hey volume will increase automatically if say for example Indian users get a chance to buy gear like a CD6003 at 14K instead of 27K or the Tannoy F1s at 10000/- instead of 18K!!

The challenge is for dealers/disties to devise a distribution and pricing model that is high volume/low cost. Thats what MBA degrees are for.

Until then we need to protect consumer interest through free information sharing.


Regards

 

[gobble]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

My fight is not for US/UK price... Even i favour posting the overseas prices out here..What i am saying in here is the Exchange Price and Customs, and Bla Bla Bla.. all put together the price...

I agree. I dont want to derail this thread, but will point out an anomaly all the same - I have always wondered why Indian pricing takes the USA/UK MRP as base price and adds customs/Excise/VAT etc, when the US/UK price includes shipping from HK or China to USA and their local taxes and duties + local dealer margin!!!

Does not a manufacturer have a uniform global base price, that excludes the markup in retail price in USA/UK (that includes the dealer margin etc) and based on which Indian customs, shipping and local excise can be fairly computed ?

Regards

 

[spirovious]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

To add Gobble, I found Tannoy FR in UK for Rs.4075(60 Pd) & here 14k.
10k ?

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

I agree. I dont want to derail this thread, but will point out an anomaly all the same - I have always wondered why Indian pricing takes the USA/UK MRP as base price and adds customs/Excise/VAT etc, when the US/UK price includes shipping from HK or China to USA and their local taxes and duties + local dealer margin!!!

Does not a manufacturer have a uniform global base price, that excludes the markup in retail price in USA/UK (that includes the dealer margin etc) and based on which Indian customs, shipping and local excise can be fairly computed ?

Regards

Hi,

I almost typed it on a full page with examples and deleted the entire post regarding this, but Gobble you did that Yeah, that is the reality and as mentioned by you, we will have this discussion outside on a separate thread!

Cheers!

 

[odyssey]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

I agree. I dont want to derail this thread, but will point out an anomaly all the same - I have always wondered why Indian pricing takes the USA/UK MRP as base price and adds customs/Excise/VAT etc, when the US/UK price includes shipping from HK or China to USA and their local taxes and duties + local dealer margin!!!

Does not a manufacturer have a uniform global base price, that excludes the markup in retail price in USA/UK (that includes the dealer margin etc) and based on which Indian customs, shipping and local excise can be fairly computed ?

Regards

Hi Gobble, good point. Actually the practice of adding shipping and duty to the local price in the US is only an guideline as to what that product will cost say if its imported by an end user, it could be a bit less or a bit more (e.g. if someone brings it in carry on baggage, etc). I am not sure why or who is following this model, can you post more info on this?
As to your second question - the answer is not necessarily. The reason ranges from volume of shipment, warranty terms (can be different in different parts of the world), brand/marketing exposure, support needed, even material used (ROHS or lead, etc). These are the ones I know, you can multiply those factors by another 10 to come up with the ones I dont know. In some cases, I believe it will be the same across all markets. Its very hard to draw any conclusion really
cheers

 

[sqvare]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Does not a manufacturer have a uniform global base price, that excludes the markup in retail price in USA/UK (that includes the dealer margin etc) and based on which Indian customs, shipping and local excise can be fairly computed ?

Regards

I agree! Isn't it rational for manufacturers to publish prices based on dispatching distribution point for a continent/group of countries? Then computing freight & local duties for a destination country would be straightforward, and funny business would be minimised.

So for a given manufacturer:

If India is being supplied from e.g. China, then our end-user price would be the Chinese-origin Base Price + Freight China>India + Indian customs duty etc.

If Canada is being supplied from Mexico, then their end-user price would be Mexico-origin Base Price + Freight Mexico>Canada + Local Canadian levies

Ah, pipe-dreams...

 

[gobble]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

To add Gobble, I found Tannoy FR in UK for Rs.4075(60 Pd) & here 14k.
10k ?

Sorry, I thought it was 7 to 8K in UK so I was also a little generous with local dealer margin

Did you get a deal or is this regular pricing?

FYI I was quoted 17K for Tannoys by a local dealer last year.

Regards

 

[mridulgoel]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

I agree. I dont want to derail this thread, but will point out an anomaly all the same - I have always wondered why Indian pricing takes the USA/UK MRP as base price and adds customs/Excise/VAT etc, when the US/UK price includes shipping from HK or China to USA and their local taxes and duties + local dealer margin!!!

Does not a manufacturer have a uniform global base price, that excludes the markup in retail price in USA/UK (that includes the dealer margin etc) and based on which Indian customs, shipping and local excise can be fairly computed ?

Regards

Buddy

My last point regarding this in this thread, rest we can discuss in another thread..specially for this...infact i will create one...

But, as i have explained earlier, so m i doing again...with proof this time...

1). Q Acoustics 2010 is Priced @ GBP 150 that is Rs.11,125 and in India it is priced @ Rs.11,500 + VAT...
Now, the calculations...(These are the actuals what we get)
GBP 150 Less 20%VAT is GBP 125...VAT is calculated from base amount... so add 20% to 125 you will get 150...
Then, we get 40% off as distributor Margin...
Now, in one term, for countries like US, Europe, Singapore, Malaysia, China, Australia, etc, where the Customs Duty varies from 4% to 15% Max.(All Together, without VAT), its fine.. But in India the calculations goes like this...
125 less 40% Dist Discount = GBP 75...
75 convert to Rs.75each Pound avg rate round the yr = Rs.5625
75 add 10% Freight = Rs.6187.5
Now Add 35% Customs, duties and Import Taxes and Charges = Rs.8,353
Now add 15% Margin for Us (including Shipping, Adv, Stock, Warranty, etc.) = Rs.9,606
Now add 20% Dealer Margin (His showroom, installation cost and discount to customers upto 10%) = Rs.11,527
Now Add VAT @ 13.5% = Rs.13,083 MRP....

Now, on what basis you guyz can talk something, which you are not aware of... If you need to challenge do it, i can proove it.. and if you still say that we keep woping margins, then first get into business, then talk about this...

And guyz who claim about getting products from Overseas or the Websites... Please get the products first payin the proper custom duties and taxes... your landing will be more than this without warranty, what you will save is the VAT.. thts it...

Talking and Commenting is a simple business, putting it up in actuals is not...
And after you guyz (Not only Gobble, but all those who talk about this) say that this product is overpriced...
I never deny that all the companies are pricing the goods the same way, we do... But, we are keeping the least margins, and providing a quality product... so please...

And this is the reason i am insisting members on placing there actual bills with duties etc...else 95% people just talk and only 5% gets actual experience...

There is nothing in for personal...Gobble replied on my point, so i just reverted back, but thats the truth...

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

And guyz who claim about getting products from Overseas or the Websites... Please get the products first payin the proper custom duties and taxes... your landing will be more than this without warranty, what you will save is the VAT.. thts it...

Hi,

I respectfully disagree that people here are just posting without any base. I myself have bought blu-ray players and AVRs after paying all the necessary taxes and saved a huge amount. The items were bought from ebay global easbuy and the other bought from direct amazon, so there was a slim chance I could get some tax benefits, as both the vendors included original invoices.

Warranty is of course void, but for example, my LCD TV bought 2 months ago here has been with the service centre for the past 3 weeks and I am yet to get a proper response from them. So, I can buy another one for the same and keep it as a spare.

We are not against all the local dealers, as we often have to rely on local dealers and distributors.

Cheers!

 

[gobble]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Buddy

My last point regarding this in this thread, rest we can discuss in another thread..specially for this...infact i will create one...

But, as i have explained earlier, so m i doing again...with proof this time...

1). Q Acoustics 2010 is Priced @ GBP 150 that is Rs.11,125 and in India it is priced @ Rs.11,500 + VAT...
Now, the calculations...(These are the actuals what we get)
GBP 150 Less 20%VAT is GBP 125...VAT is calculated from base amount... so add 20% to 125 you will get 150...
Then, we get 40% off as distributor Margin...
Now, in one term, for countries like US, Europe, Singapore, Malaysia, China, Australia, etc, where the Customs Duty varies from 4% to 15% Max.(All Together, without VAT), its fine.. But in India the calculations goes like this...
125 less 40% Dist Discount = GBP 75...
75 convert to Rs.75each Pound avg rate round the yr = Rs.5625
75 add 10% Freight = Rs.6187.5
Now Add 35% Customs, duties and Import Taxes and Charges = Rs.8,353
Now add 15% Margin for Us (including Shipping, Adv, Stock, Warranty, etc.) = Rs.9,606
Now add 20% Dealer Margin (His showroom, installation cost and discount to customers upto 10%) = Rs.11,527
Now Add VAT @ 13.5% = Rs.13,083 MRP....

Now, on what basis you guyz can talk something, which you are not aware of... If you need to challenge do it, i can proove it.. and if you still say that we keep woping margins, then first get into business, then talk about this...

And guyz who claim about getting products from Overseas or the Websites... Please get the products first payin the proper custom duties and taxes... your landing will be more than this without warranty, what you will save is the VAT.. thts it...

Talking and Commenting is a simple business, putting it up in actuals is not...
And after you guyz (Not only Gobble, but all those who talk about this) say that this product is overpriced...
I never deny that all the companies are pricing the goods the same way, we do... But, we are keeping the least margins, and providing a quality product... so please...

And this is the reason i am insisting members on placing there actual bills with duties etc...else 95% people just talk and only 5% gets actual experience...

There is nothing in for personal...Gobble replied on my point, so i just reverted back, but thats the truth...

Hey thanks for posting the data. But did I mention or imply that YOU are overcharging for QAcoustics 1010 product? I am talking about trends unfavorable to consumers that have been proven again and again to the extent that it is commonly accepted general knowledge. The Tannoy was an example.

I think you are taking my statements as an allegation against you and your business practices. For the record, I have never even asked for a quote from you for any product.

I will be happy to purchase the 1010i package from you when I want it

Cheers

Edit: lets move this to another thread and stop spamming the original thread here.

 

[mridulgoel]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Hey thanks for posting the data. But did I mention or imply that YOU are overcharging for QAcoustics 1010 product? I am talking about trends unfavorable to consumers that have been proven again and again to the extent that it is commonly accepted general knowledge. The Tannoy was an example.

I think you are taking my statements as an allegation against you and your business practices. For the record, I have never even asked for a quote from you for any product.

I will be happy to purchase the 1010i package from you when I want it

Cheers

No Buddy, no one has ever questioned regardin Q Acoustics...
But, in order to give a live example, i used Q Acoustics, as i know, my distributor prices for my brands only...right..??

And, as i mentioned at last, that i dont have any issues with you or anyone in personal, and as you replied to my post, so as a part of discussion i continued using your point...

So, as i always say.. No Hard feelings...
We are in this industry to do business not make enemies..
so I am SORRY, if you felt things directly being said against you...

 

[jai1611]

@Mridul, not all dealers are equally reasonable in pricing.

I was briefly interested in a Rotel RA-04 last year. Was quoted a price of Rs.36000 + VAT for the amplifier by the dealer. This amp at the time had a UK retail price (including VAT) of 250 - Rs.20,000 at the exchange rate at that time. If I had decided to carry the amp back from the UK, it would have cost me substantially less than the Indian price even with full customs duty paid (which would be partly offset by the VAT refund that the UK gives when you export a VAT paid product - its a straightforward process that I've used before). The only way to justify the Indian price is either to assume that the dealer/distri margin in India for Rotel is atrociously high or to assume that the importer is buying at UK retail price and paying VAT there. Your own example of Q Acoustics proves that reasonable pricing is possible.

Things may be different for dealers who import products that are sold factory direct in their home market - here the dealer actually does buy at or close to the overseas retail price as the manufacturer doesnt really give big dealer discounts.

 

[spirovious]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Sorry, I thought it was 7 to 8K in UK so I was also a little generous with local dealer margin

Did you get a deal or is this regular pricing?

FYI I was quoted 17K for Tannoys by a local dealer last year.

Regards

I asked hyperword,Barkin. There web showing 70pd & I bargained for 60.
My uncle is on UK tour & he may get it for me to complete my setup.
Tannoy Mercury Bookshelf Speakers - Apple Finish

 

[mridulgoel]

@Mridul, not all dealers are equally reasonable in pricing.

I was briefly interested in a Rotel RA-04 last year. Was quoted a price of Rs.36000 + VAT for the amplifier by the dealer. This amp at the time had a UK retail price (including VAT) of 250 - Rs.20,000 at the exchange rate at that time. If I had decided to carry the amp back from the UK, it would have cost me substantially less than the Indian price even with full customs duty paid (which would be partly offset by the VAT refund that the UK gives when you export a VAT paid product - its a straightforward process that I've used before). The only way to justify the Indian price is either to assume that the dealer/distri margin in India for Rotel is atrociously high or to assume that the importer is buying at UK retail price and paying VAT there. Your own example of Q Acoustics proves that reasonable pricing is possible.

Things may be different for dealers who import products that are sold factory direct in their home market - here the dealer actually does buy at or close to the overseas retail price as the manufacturer doesnt really give big dealer discounts.

Sorry Jai

I dont agree with you...

If you are buying a product from UK then you are paying the 20% VAT...
Apart from that the price you are being quoted was a discounted exchange price...so the price comparison @ indian rupees is different.. compare from the Indian MRPs, the difference will be not much...

 

[gobble]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

Hi Gobble, good point. Actually the practice of adding shipping and duty to the local price in the US is only an guideline as to what that product will cost say if its imported by an end user, it could be a bit less or a bit more (e.g. if someone brings it in carry on baggage, etc). I am not sure why or who is following this model, can you post more info on this?
As to your second question - the answer is not necessarily. The reason ranges from volume of shipment, warranty terms (can be different in different parts of the world), brand/marketing exposure, support needed, even material used (ROHS or lead, etc). These are the ones I know, you can multiply those factors by another 10 to come up with the ones I dont know. In some cases, I believe it will be the same across all markets. Its very hard to draw any conclusion really
cheers

Odyssey
I agree it is complicated. Your point is well taken. In fact I will also remind everyone that to strive to be more efficient is intrinsic human nature, and it naturally follows that people will want to maximize returns with minimum sales effort (be it quantity of goods sold or any other means) or headache of dealing with too many people with empty pockets but plenty of queries (of which we have many in India ). So I am not branding all dealers as greedy in a negativistic fashion. I am just asking for more sense in pricing that feels acceptable to the Indian consumer vis a vis his foreign counterparts.

Regards

 

[gobble]

Re: Clarification and Explanation

I asked hyperword,Barkin. There web showing 70pd & I bargained for 60.
My uncle is on UK tour & he may get it for me to complete my setup.
Tannoy Mercury Bookshelf Speakers - Apple Finish

How did you bargain on a website? Called them?

curious

cheers

 

[jai1611]

Sorry Jai

I dont agree with you...

If you are buying a product from UK then you are paying the 20% VAT...
Apart from that the price you are being quoted was a discounted exchange price...so the price comparison @ indian rupees is different.. compare from the Indian MRPs, the difference will be not much...

The UK price was the MSRP including VAT - the WhatHiFi review price (not a 'discounted exchange price'). The VAT refund process in the UK is well established - anyone who has travelled there frequently would know how to use it. You dont get the full VAT amount but for large purchases (200+), you get a substantial chunk. There is a special desk at the passenger departure lounge for this. All you need to do is get a VAT refund receipt from the retailers when purchasing the product.

Whether you chose to believe me or not is your choice. Just because you price your products reasonably doesnt mean that other dealers will too.