Is anyone a member of team-bhp?? What car to buy?

[goyal.sanchit]

Does skoda superb figure in these comparisons

No. Becoz of 2 reasons mainly-

1.) It doesnt look to be in the same league.

2.) Skoda has a very peculiar problem. You cant take your car out in the RAINS!!! :indifferent14: Yes you read it right!! You buy a car for Rs 20 lakh which you take out in the rain and its gone!! now what the hell is that!!


My cousin has A skoda and he drove it during rains. Water went into the engine and repairs cost him around Rs 2 lakhs. I thought It might be a 1 off case. Then I told my friend about it (who also has a skoda). He said that yes thats true. Even his friend got his car damaged becoz of Rain water and my friend said that he doesnt take the car out during rains!!!!!

The 320i is grossly underpowered. You won't like to get smoked by a guy driving an Octy vRS would you? The straight six of the 325i is a beast though.

Hmm interesting. The BMW engine is 200cc more than MERC and AUDI. I dont have any idea about CC, torque and BHP!! Do you know whats the BHP of BMW and if you could describe in detail how underpowered it is??

both you and your father buy second-hand cars-
he buys a 3.0 litre v6 accord (the one with the led lights on the boot lip)
and you buy a s2000 honda (apparently a 3 year old s2000 could be yours for 14-16 lacs).

your dad might not get much snob value - but he gets a car better than audi and one which invites comparison with the other two-

BUT YOU!!!! - you will be king of the heap!!! there is no other car that has a redline at 8200, and the pit babes - they will not need your help when they ride shotgun with you!

and hey - both should cost your dad south of 30 lacs - hard cash though - no bank will finance these deals.

Interesting!! But 2nd hand car is not an option at all.

About Audi not having Idrive, as you said your car runs very less and is mostly self driven, then anyways you cant watch a dvd.
About runflats apart from making the ride harsh it does not take the bad roads well and get unusable for many. We still dont get runflats in the market and BMW charges approx 50k for the tyre.
Audi i feel is very under rated and i think its styling is not that dynamic as BMW. But still as a manufacturer i feel its right there with others like BMW and has a good brand value as well.
Thats all i have to say for now

Thats correct I wont be getting the time to watch DVD's. But being a cricket lover I would be much happy if I can watch the match on DD.



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Had a test drive of MERC today and from the outset it looks like it is out of the equation. Suspension was good but too less features for too much price and the final nail in the coffin seems to be the Reverse sensers which just beep and are practically useless wherear AUDI and BMW have graphical sensors to assist during Reverse.


======


A RF tyre is around 25,000 whereas a normal tubeless tyre would be around 5000. I would tomorrow ask the BMW salesman to take the RF tyres and deduct the price from car and I am planning to replace with normal tubeless tyre. Would make the car cheap, and also have heard that suspension and handling greatly improves!!

Do you think that would be a good move (if the person agrees)??

 

[rikhav]

If the dealer agrees i dont think it should be a problem using the tubeless tyres. Only thing is that you should opt for a tyre which is at par with RF's as far as performance is concerned

 

[shuv]

The 320i has 150 odd BHP. Peaks at around 6.1k IIRC.

 

[santhosh]

If the dealer agrees i dont think it should be a problem using the tubeless tyres. Only thing is that you should opt for a tyre which is at par with RF's as far as performance is concerned

Yes, change to 'comfort' tubeless tyres. Continental, being German is the brand that would suit the character of the car.

Another option is the Yokohama Decibel Series. These have been designed for Luxury Saloons. I can vouch for these tyres as I have fitted 17 inch Yokohama Decibel Series tyres on my Dad's Civic. These tyres look great, are super Silent and also grip very well. They also have a very strong rim protector which is a necessity in our Indian Roads. Here's a linky : Yokohama DNA dB decibel ES501 Tyre

Think of Yoko only if you can't source Continental as these are Japanese tyres. They are made in Japan and fantastic quality but one should maintain the "German" character of the car. Hence Continental should be your first choice.

 

[suri]

Another option is the Yokohama Decibel Series. These have been designed for Luxury Saloons. I can vouch for these tyres as I have fitted 17 inch Yokohama Decibel Series tyres on my Dad's Civic. These tyres look great, are super Silent and also grip very well. They also have a very strong rim protector which is a necessity in our Indian Roads. Here's a linky : Yokohama DNA dB decibel ES501 Tyre

superb tyres, these!:licklips: - must-have for all Senna wannabes!

 

[shuv]

If Yokos, why not Neovas?

PP2s would be another option.

 

[santhosh]

superb tyres, these!:licklips: - must-have for all Senna wannabes!

If Yokos, why not Neovas?

PP2s would be another option.

Did not recommend the Advan Neovas only because his dad also will be using the car. Michelins are good on comfort too but at the same pricepoint, the Db series are just fantastic.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
Have driven the Merc & the BMW but not the Audi.
The Merc C230 is good & to a lesser degree so is the C200 KOM. IMO great styling, far better than the previous generation C, not as plane jane as made out to be. I dont know why u felt the engine was noisy? Almost no road noise filters in. None of these engines will be as silent as say a Honda engine but then this 'purring' is also addictive.
The BMW 320i I would not consider, the 325 yes. Apart from the run flats which are a problem on our roads the car is good for sure. As a toss up on the interiors I would actually pick the Merc though i have always been a fan of the 3 series look.
Either car is great with both having that oomph factor & more than adequate snob value but neither are roomy & comfortable. Both are cramped if u have a 'normal' Indian family.
Regarding changing the tyres on the BMW, THINK AND RECHECK with the dealer. Was told this is absolutely not recommended as it will affect the syspension settings which are tuned keeping the stiff Run flat in mind. Dont want hassles on the warranty later.

The pricings that u mention are perplexing too. Problem with most of us is that we go with pre conceived notions. A Merc is Boring, grandfather interiors, bland blah blah and the BMW is a drivers car, great handling etc etc. Neither statement is actually a 100 % accurate. How can a car (c230 ie) with over 200 horses and huge torque all thru the power band be dull? What is dull is actually the 320i IMO
I thought my older generation V6 accord with few mods was a brilliant drivers car, with more room than either of the cars u mention and brilliantly reliable. Truly a 'free revving' engine in every sense!!
I too am a car freak and have had the pleasure of driving most cars that I want to in bbay & abroad but am not as enamoured by these German icons as I once was. For me a Honda does the trick:yahoo:
Rgds

 

[longshanks]

No. Becoz of 2 reasons mainly-

1.) It doesnt look to be in the same league.

2.) Skoda has a very peculiar problem. You cant take your car out in the RAINS!!! :indifferent14: Yes you read it right!! You buy a car for Rs 20 lakh which you take out in the rain and its gone!! now what the hell is that!!

It does look and feel in the same league and the v6 engine is very good as well, but thats for me and everyone has their own taste and experiences with any car brand.


The second point you mentioned may be true for a good degree in case of the old Octavia and the old superb, but i don't think it exists with the new laura and superb. Once a Honda accord gave up on me while driving in rain water so this RAINS problem pretty much exists with many Sedans IMO.

 

[mahiruha]

It does look and feel in the same league and the v6 engine is very good as well, but thats for me and everyone has their own taste and experiences with any car brand.


The second point you mentioned may be true for a good degree in case of the old Octavia and the old superb, but i don't think it exists with the new laura and superb. Once a Honda accord gave up on me while driving in rain water so this RAINS problem pretty much exists with many Sedans IMO.

Hello,
well I don't understand anything about cars. But I am worried about this rain problem in scoda. When you say rain problem do you mean they cannot be driven in torrential rain or they just give in if there is 2.5ft water in the street. Does this kind of problem still exist in modern day cars?
Thanks.

 

[longshanks]

Hello,
they just give in if there is 2.5ft water in the street. Does this kind of problem still exist in modern day cars?
Thanks.

Yes, this is the problem and it does exists in many modern day cars.Mine has not given up on me although ive driven it a few times in 2ft of water(The road where we have this mouthful restaurant in t.nagar chennai during rainy season)

 

[mahiruha]

Well it can happen to any car then. The street in which my office is located is reknowned for water logging in monsoon. I can remeber atleast 6 occasion over last 12 year when I was sititng in the rear seat with my legs folded because there was water inside the car but no car ever gave in. They were still going strong.The problem is you can't really take a test drive in such a scenario. Lets see how the scoda fares in the upcoming monsoon.

 

[santhosh]

Hello,
well I don't understand anything about cars. But I am worried about this rain problem in scoda. When you say rain problem do you mean they cannot be driven in torrential rain or they just give in if there is 2.5ft water in the street. Does this kind of problem still exist in modern day cars?
Thanks.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no car engine which is rain friendly.
Rains are a problem only if one does not follow some basic rules:
a) Measure the amount of water in the water logged area. No need to get down and check. You can get a fair idea by looking at another vehicle that is crossing. Make a mental note of how much of the tyres were submerged when that car was crossing, then compare after it has crossed.
b) While crossing a water logged area, maintain a steady accelerator. Never remove your foot from the accelerator especially if you think the level of water is higher than the exhaust pipe. Try not to stall your engine.
c) Make sure you get a clear run, you don't want to stall your engine because the chap in front got stuck.
d) Never get into the "I saw a 4Lakh Indica cross, my 6Lakh car has to be better engineered" syndrome. Diesel engines are not as averse to water as Petrol engines are.
e) If you have an option, take the most shallow path
f) If you have an aftermarket K&N air filter, do not go fast during rains as water splashing on the open filter can enter your engine

There are more tips available online. Just posted few that I could think of.

About Skoda, there is a problem with the company's attitude itself. Especially the way their After Markets Service works. I speak from having witnessed bad experience of my friends and neighbours. Mostly to do with very high service bills in the name of "preventive maintenance" and shabby service jobs. After reading the Skoda bashing thread on team-bhp, I realised the low service standards are the same across India. Skoda India just does not seem to care about the numerous escalations/complaints.

Well it can happen to any car then. The street in which my office is located is reknowned for water logging in monsoon. I can remeber atleast 6 occasion over last 12 year when I was sititng in the rear seat with my legs folded because there was water inside the car but no car ever gave in. They were still going strong.The problem is you can't really take a test drive in such a scenario. Lets see how the scoda fares in the upcoming monsoon.

Yes, it can happen in any car. Cars are not water tight. If water level is higher than the lowest entry point (roughly 2 inches higher than the bottom of your door line), water will enter.

 

[longshanks]

About Skoda, there is a problem with the company's attitude itself. Especially the way their After Markets Service works. I speak from having witnessed bad experience of my friends and neighbours. Mostly to do with very high service bills in the name of "preventive maintenance" and shabby service jobs. After reading the Skoda bashing thread on team-bhp, I realised the low service standards are the same across India. Skoda India just does not seem to care about the numerous escalations/complaints.

The Soda service problem does exist and as ive heard from many people, but for our family we have had zero problems with Skoda and we own 4 of them. My brother recently bought a jetta and even vw service here in chennai is good according to him.Abt Team-Bhp thread bashing soda i feel its over cooked to the highest degree and i highly doubt if who ever posting there against skoda are even owing a car honestly.

 

[shuv]

If water enters the engine ANY car will die. If the engine shuts down, NEVER EVER crank it. Get the car towed to the service center. I have driven Skodas in moderately waterlogged Calcutta without any problem, touch wood.

@ Sanchit - Whichever car you get, please buy the extended warranty package. The BSI is very good and Merc's Star Care should be up there too. No idea about Audi's though.

 

[anm]

I haven't driver in mumbai/ kolkata kind of places where u get lots of rain, only in delhi ncr, but my octavia didn't have any problems. I have once driven, when it was just 3-4 months old, through a water logged stretch where my santro died earlier, but octavia sailed smooth, and there were few other cars that died due to water on that stretch. It is a petrol version.

Though I agree with atrocious service and spares cost.

regards

No. Becoz of 2 reasons mainly-

1.) It doesnt look to be in the same league.

2.) Skoda has a very peculiar problem. You cant take your car out in the RAINS!!! :indifferent14: Yes you read it right!! You buy a car for Rs 20 lakh which you take out in the rain and its gone!! now what the hell is that!!


My cousin has A skoda and he drove it during rains. Water went into the engine and repairs cost him around Rs 2 lakhs. I thought It might be a 1 off case. Then I told my friend about it (who also has a skoda). He said that yes thats true. Even his friend got his car damaged becoz of Rain water and my friend said that he doesnt take the car out during rains!!!!!





Hmm interesting. The BMW engine is 200cc more than MERC and AUDI. I dont have any idea about CC, torque and BHP!! Do you know whats the BHP of BMW and if you could describe in detail how underpowered it is??





Interesting!! But 2nd hand car is not an option at all.





Thats correct I wont be getting the time to watch DVD's. But being a cricket lover I would be much happy if I can watch the match on DD.



=======

Had a test drive of MERC today and from the outset it looks like it is out of the equation. Suspension was good but too less features for too much price and the final nail in the coffin seems to be the Reverse sensers which just beep and are practically useless wherear AUDI and BMW have graphical sensors to assist during Reverse.


======


A RF tyre is around 25,000 whereas a normal tubeless tyre would be around 5000. I would tomorrow ask the BMW salesman to take the RF tyres and deduct the price from car and I am planning to replace with normal tubeless tyre. Would make the car cheap, and also have heard that suspension and handling greatly improves!!

Do you think that would be a good move (if the person agrees)??

 

[neo]

Glad see a few petrol heads on this forum.

@ Sanchit. I've not driven any of the petrol models of the cars in contention except of the Audi 3.2 & the M3 But then it won't be a fair compare.

As dinyaar said there is very little separating the car's spec & equipment wise.
IMO You should decide your car after taking in account your usage, service & maintenance costs, finance deals if any. One more important aspect with these brands is you have to check with the dealers about the availability of the cars, colours & with the equipment options. The price of car will be diff after you select the options. Pl ask the sales guys to mail you the configuration available.

The BMW 320i makes about 150BHP & 200NM of torque, The A4 1.8TFSI makes about 160bhp & 240nm/ A4 2.0 is at about 180 bhp & 320nm where as the merc is at 170 bhp with 240NM.


The mileage on most of these cars is almost the same & so is the performance.
I don't think a few KPL or 1 sec diff to 0-100 matters in day-to-day usage. Esp since you mention your car's are used sporadically.

IMO the merc has the most comfortable ride, a very refined engine, seems to be the safest of the lot, interior space is better than the 3 but seems to be a bit less than the A4. It has one of the best rear seats.

The A4 seems to have a very good balance of comfort & sportiness. Does seem to have more room. The rear seat seems to have a bit more legroom but the back is a bit more upright. The ride is stiff a lower speeds esp if you maintain tyre pressure as recommended by Audi. There is very little price & performance diff between the 1.8 & the 2.0. I would still recco the 2.0 as it's the same engine as on the Q5 & hence availability of spares would be easier, plus very few people opt for the 1.8 as it's the same in the Laura/Superb may be except the auto box.

IMO the 320i does not feel special as the other 2. The 150 bhp is adequate but does not feel exciting. It strong point is handling but it does not have stability on a straight line at high speeds. I feel it is the best-looking car interior or exterior.

BMW & AFAIK Audi have comprehensive 3 & 5 yr maintenance plans. The merc may also have it's own version so pl check. I guess the merc could be the most expensive to maintain, but i could be wrong. So Pl check as to what the service costs are.

I look at the car's cost of ownership over 5-7yrs & also take the resale value in consideration. But in such cars ease of offloading is more imp as its tough to make a call on the resale value at the moment.

All in all my recco would be the Audi 2.0 TFSI.

All the best
Cheers

 

[neo]

All modern cars are loaded with sensors, which get damaged if in contact with moisture.

I've seen a friend suffer with his swift vdi. He had got V-cool sun film installed on his windscreen. While the application the soap water must have percolated from the dash, which failed one of the sensors. The sensor was not replaced under warranty.

My wife drives a spark. We've have been warned not to wash the car with pressured water from the front as the water might go through the air filter & damage the sensor.

I fully agree with Skoda having one the most horrible after sales service, but i've been luck to find very good non-authorized workshops that do a splendid job on maintaining my Octavia.
Cheers

 

[mahiruha]

Thanks guys,
for giving your views visavis Skoda Vs rain. Well we have to take that chance in our life. But against extreme natural calamity we can't do much. I am planning to get a Fiat linea car. Does it have any big issues? I mean regarding service and all other stuff.
Thanks.

 

[anm]

do rain sensors develop faults during rains? hyeah:

Thanks guys,
for giving your views visavis Skoda Vs rain. Well we have to take that chance in our life. But against extreme natural calamity we can't do much. I am planning to get a Fiat linea car. Does it have any big issues? I mean regarding service and all other stuff.
Thanks.