LCD vs Plasma - Fact vs Myth

Since this is turning into a fun thread let me add to the chaos. :)

I was looking at some TV reviews and found this piece of info -

120Hz full HD LCD/LEDs have moving picture resolution of 600 lines max.

Even 240Hz/200Hz LCD/LEDs have moving picture resolution of 900-1000 lines. And for the top-of-the-line LG LH90 LED, moving picture resolution is just 300 lines when blur reduction is turned off.

For plasmas, the moving picture resolution is 900 lines for cheaper full HDs like Pana S1 and 1080 lines for more expensive ones like Pana G1.

I never knew this stuff before and I don't know how it affects the picture quality. Anyone who has researched more about moving resolution would be in a better position to explain whether it degrades picture quality.
Finally, someone has the sense to look at 'resolution' specifications for what they really are, just figures. The true resolution is measured with moving pictures and the fact is, penny for penny, a Plasma will beat the pants off of a LCD, even in the one supposed strength of LCDs, ie. 'resolution'. It is due to this very reason that I recommend, that people stay away from the Panasonic S10 series plasmas, since they have only 900+ lines of 'moving picture' resolution. Basically, most cheaper, although still more expensive than a plasma, LCDs produce true 1920x1080 lines of resolution while showing a still picture, but the moment you play video, it's an entirely different story.
 
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Adder - I am not sure what you are trying to prove. That LCD > Plasma?

I am not sure that that is something that can be conclusively proven. So why try? If you prefer LCDs over Plasmas, then that is good for you. Others apparently prefer Plasmas. Good for them as well. And the best thing is we need not try and convince the other about anything. No offense meant, of course.
 
Agree the samsung plasma panels are better then the panasonic atleast compared to 09 models,(no idea whether panasonic have improved for 2010).
but it still doesn't match the lcd ,in perceived black levels due to glare.
in the below image kuro on the top ,samsung 8 series plasma bottom left,samsung series 8 lcd on the bottom right,
4468731721_2f30fea48b_b.jpg

Why are we looking at these switched off photos?
Isn't black level the difference between extremes of the two pixels when the set is running?
LCD with no backlight is going to black. Is it not known?
 
Finally, someone has the sense to look at 'resolution' specifications for what they really are, just figures. The true resolution is measured with moving pictures and the fact is, penny for penny, a Plasma will beat the pants off of a LCD, even in the one supposed strength of LCDs, ie. 'resolution'. It is due to this very reason that I recommend, that people stay away from the Panasonic S10 series plasmas, since they have only 900+ lines of 'moving picture' resolution. Basically, most cheaper, although still more expensive than a plasma, LCDs produce true 1920x1080 lines of resolution while showing a still picture, but the moment you play video, it's an entirely different story.

Did you pick these from my posts? ;)
I don't know why S10 with 900 lines of resolution is looked down when sonys with 650 lines of resolution are praised. I posted the exact same thing somewhere else.

Panasonic is honest enough to release theie motion picture resolution while LCD manufacturers will go out of business if they disclose this info.

But practically it does not affect our DTH viewers. S10 is a capable TV in its own. Just shadowed by G10.
 
Adder - I am not sure what you are trying to prove. That LCD > Plasma?

I am not sure that that is something that can be conclusively proven. So why try? If you prefer LCDs over Plasmas, then that is good for you. Others apparently prefer Plasmas. Good for them as well. And the best thing is we need not try and convince the other about anything. No offense meant, of course.

Well, Iam saying the same thing for ages.
If few people say LCD > Plasma and few others say that there is no clear winner, It means to an observer that LCD > Plasma on an average. Thats how it works.
 
Well, Iam saying the same thing for ages.
If few people say LCD > Plasma and few others say that there is no clear winner, It means to an observer that LCD > Plasma on an average. Thats how it works.
Actually, if you were to take a vote of most experts, PLasma overall is a hands down winner, specially if price is taken into account. The argument I find the most irritating, is that because LCDs sell more than Plasmas, they are better. I suppose Maruti makes the best cars in India since they have the maximum market share. Oh and why not look at tv sales in India, Videocon has the highest market share in TV sales, I suppose that means that Videocon makes the best TVs. :) In fact, due to the way the real world works, sales generally have very little to do with actual quality and time and time again, inferior technologies have won over much superior technologies due to the politics in the economic world. A perfect example is Betamax losing out to the vastly inferior VHS format.
 
Agree the samsung plasma panels are better then the panasonic atleast compared to 09 models,(no idea whether panasonic have improved for 2010).
but it still doesn't match the lcd ,in perceived black levels due to glare.
in the below image kuro on the top ,samsung 8 series plasma bottom left,samsung series 8 lcd on the bottom right,
4468731721_2f30fea48b_b.jpg

Comparing this way, the display with the poorest black levels has to be this, undoubtedly -

Cinemascreen3forweb.jpg


:p
 
One silly question: "Can Electronics Giants not develop CRTs with aspect ratio of 16:9 and in larger sizes?":licklips:
@To all HFV greats: Please excuse me if I sound noob, I cannot help it.:eek:
 
Adder - I am not sure what you are trying to prove. That LCD > Plasma?

I am not sure that that is something that can be conclusively proven. So why try? If you prefer LCDs over Plasmas, then that is good for you. Others apparently prefer Plasmas. Good for them as well. And the best thing is we need not try and convince the other about anything. No offense meant, of course.
the thread title should answer your question.

Why are we looking at these switched off photos?
Isn't black level the difference between extremes of the two pixels when the set is running?
LCD with no backlight is going to black. Is it not known?
Many tv can show deep blacks, but how usefull is it in the real world ,those deep black readings you see in reviews are measured in completely dark room,since the any light falling on the tv will cause the tv to loose its black levels.

here is quote that i have posted many times from HT mag
ere is a quote from HT mag panasonic G10 plasma vs sony V5100(equal to V550A but has the inferior BE2)
While the plasma still had a better pic- ture off axis, the Sonys color fidelity was far more natural and consistent, which is entirely inconsistent with my overall experience with LCDs. To top it off, turning on even a little room light killed the plasma, while the Sony still looked awesome.Im a kook who prioritizes nighttime movie watching, but the Sony had the better blacks with the lights out, too. So my little world was really turned upside down. Im a plasma guy. I own a plasma. I love my plasma! But this Sony was the best of the bunch.

from another panelist
Overall, the Panasonic plasma came in at a very close second on my scorecard, earning just three points less than the Sony. The Panasonic handled motion admirably and had very acceptable color and shadow detail. But its black level dropped substantially when the room lights were on, and that alone was enough to lose it my first-place vote

From the silent observor who wrote the panelist comments and who tested the objective measurements
I cant say how I might have voted had I been participating blind, but I like to think I would have placed it on top(sony lcd), given my partiality to serious viewing in a darkened room and the resulting need for great black levels. As I noted earlier, the Sony also won raves for its performance with the lights onalthough that was a very short part of the test and not included in the scoring.


Comparing this way, the display with the poorest black levels has to be this, undoubtedly -

:p
Good that u brought it up,get the best projector and lets see whether one can see those deep blacks in those lighting conditions:rolleyes:
 
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One silly question: "Can Electronics Giants not develop CRTs with aspect ratio of 16:9 and in larger sizes?":licklips:
@To all HFV greats: Please excuse me if I sound noob, I cannot help it.:eek:

Who will buy them??
Earlier there weere 36 and 40 inch premium crt's with 16:9 ratio...

once they were winner ,later plasmas and lcds killed them?
 
Comparing this way, the display with the poorest black levels has to be this, undoubtedly -

Cinemascreen3forweb.jpg


:p

I don't know why you placed a :p at the end of the post.
This IS the display with poorest black levels in the lighting conditions of the photograph.

Thats why they switch off all the light before the movie. The same screen turns pitch black then!
 
Who will buy them??
Earlier there weere 36 and 40 inch premium crt's with 16:9 ratio...

once they were winner ,later plasmas and lcds killed them?
OK I never knew this fact. Could you please throw some more light on this and their prices when they got extinct. Also the companies that came up with these.
 
Hehe! Thanks dudes! :p

No offence, adder. Posted that pic just to make a point that bright daylight conditions is not the right ambiance for watching movies. And no one would care about black levels and picture quality when watching Tata Sky. (Which I think is best watched on CRT.)

Also, in the pic, the photographer is cheating because he has aimed the camera flash at the Kuro display and has made it look much lighter than it is.
 
I am sorry but have you played planet earth blu ray,go play them in a plasma and compare it to say the samsung lcds with AMP,let me know which is good the stutter/jitter free or less samsung or the jittery plasmas.
First of all, you need to understand what 24p judder is. It is not a problem of Plasmas or LCDs, rather it is an inherent problem with all film sourced material shot in 24 frames per second. Thus to make a blanket statement that either Plasmas, or LCDs for that matter, have judder problems, is totally wrong. So basically the judder caused by the slow 24p frame rate is a problem that both Plasmas and LCDs have to deal with.
Infact why do you think plasma makers are coming up with their own versions to tackle this problem,if its wasn't a problem in plasmas.Their version is different approach.
Yes, and their approach is superior to that of LCD. Like I said, 'judder' is a problem that both Plasma & LCD have to deal with. In fact Plasmas or more specifically Pioneer was the first one to deal with this issue by using 72hz (24 x 3) in their Plasmas. Ever since then, LCDs have simply been trying to play catch up with plasmas in this aspect. Even today with all the new 120hz & 240hz LCDs, the Panasonic plasmas with 600Hz (24 x 25) are able to handle 'judder' the best. In fact Samasung too now employs the same 600hz sub drive technology in their plasmas. Bottom line, penny for penny, a plasma will deal with judder, far better than any LCD in the same price range.
lets get one thing straight ,think about it i mean plasma are cheaper to buy if the plasma was so much better .why do you think plasma have roughly around 10% of the tv marker world over.
Wow! That is the weakest argument, I have ever heard on either side of the debate. So let me understand this, you are sugesting that because LCDs sell more than Plasmas, they are better. I suppose Maruti makes the best cars in India, since they have the maximum market share. Oh and why not look at TV sales in India, Videocon has the highest market share in TV sales, I suppose that means that Videocon makes the best TVs. In fact, due to the way the real world works, sales generally have very little to do with actual quality and time and time again, inferior technologies have won over much superior technologies due to the politics in the economic world. A perfect example is Betamax losing out to the vastly inferior VHS format. As a matter of fact, a far superior technology to both Plasma & LCD, SED TV developed by Canon & Toshiba in partnership never even made it to the stores, simply because of corporate politics. By the way, SED is a technology that incorporates the best of the CRT technology, without the CRT drawbacks such as size, weight, geometry problems due to magnetic interference, or the poor response time of LCDs or image retention problems of Plasmas etc. Basically, imagine a TV with a much brighter and evenly distributed brightness, higher contrast ratio CRT and also deeper blacks than a CRT/Kuro. Add to that, FULL HD resolution with a response time as fast or faster than CRTs, in a slim as a Plasma/LCD frame and without any geometric abberations. That is SED for you. A technology that was demoed for several years and had every single expert gasping and panting with lust, and which was ready for commercial launch in 2007, but one, that was not allowed to make it out of the gates due to corporate politics. Also, lets not forget the Sony technology called SXRD, which was unanimously considered the best TVs to buy before Sony in a surprising decision all of a sudden decided to stop manufacturing it to give more attention to their LCD business, read as, higher margin and more profitable LCD business. The most important reason for LCDs selling more than Plasmas, is that, LCDs are cheaper to manufacture, specially due to economies of scale achieved due to the much larger PC monitor market, than plasma. Which translates into much larger profits for consumer electronic companies, so ignorant customers are misled, by all sorts of lies and marketing gimmicks, not to mention incentive schemes for TV salesmen and dealers, to buy into the inferior LCD technology.
Many people in other forums have even switched over from plasmas to lcds and some even from kuro.

Even one of moderator in avsforums who was pro plasma,closing any thread of plasma vs lcd that had some hint of lcds in winning state with tempers flying,now has become neutral why because he now has a samsung LED lcd apart from the kuro or was it a panasonic plasma.
Wow! This one even beats, the 'higher sales' argument in being not just feeble at best, but actually in being downright ridiculous. Sorry, but it is impossible for me to debate against such inane arguments.

PS: I too have two LCD TVs other than PC monitors in my house. But how or what that proves, is beyond me.
 
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Hehe! Thanks dudes! :p

No offence, adder. Posted that pic just to make a point that bright daylight conditions is not the right ambiance for watching movies.
I am sorry very few people watch a movie in dark conditions,what about people who watch them at daytime.

And no one would care about black levels and picture quality when watching Tata Sky. (Which I think is best watched on CRT.)
I am sorry quite a large number of people care about PQ and black levels.

Also, in the pic, the photographer is cheating because he has aimed the camera flash at the Kuro display and has made it look much lighter than it is.
The photographer himself said he prefers the samsung lcd in day time,BTW thats a 8500 local dimming LED lcd.

if you think just because of the camera aim it made a difference have a look at below picture
the laptop preserves the blacks better then the plasma.
oa4sw7.jpg


the samsung A650 glossy lcd
2u58gab.jpg
 
Good that u brought it up,get the best projector and lets see whether one can see those deep blacks in those lighting conditions:rolleyes:
Are we now seriously going to consider comparing direct view televisions with front projection? Well, the day you can buy a TV, be it a LCD or Plasma or any other kind, in a 120" 16:9 diagonal size and that costs approximately Rs. 100,000/-, we can have this debate, but until then lets all spend our time and energy on other more pressing matters.

I don't know why you placed a :p at the end of the post.
This IS the display with poorest black levels in the lighting conditions of the photograph.
I don't think this was posted to make a comment about contrast ratios, but rather it was posted to show the silliness of comparing contrast ratios of TVs with a still picture of the TVs with blank screens.
 
I am sorry very few people watch a movie in dark conditions,what about people who watch them at daytime.


I am sorry quite a large number of people care about PQ and black levels.


The photographer himself said he prefers the samsung lcd in day time,BTW thats a 8500 local dimming LED lcd.

if you think just because of the camera aim it made a difference have a look at below picture
the laptop preserves the blacks better then the plasma.
oa4sw7.jpg


the samsung A650 glossy lcd
2u58gab.jpg


It is only general knowledge that if the TV were like this, Not a single person would buy it.

The flash contibutes a momentary flood of light which is equavalent to putting the TV in the open sunlight on a summer afternoon (or more).

These kind of pictures may help prove a point that LCDs hold black level in brightly lit rooms.

But the picture showing normally lit room and a poor black plasma is HEAVILY misleading.

Suffice to say, if there exists a room with ambient light equal to the flash light of the camera, No one can live there. You will become blind in a matter of minutes.

BTW, You really thought we plasma TV owners are viewing our TVs with PQ shown in the picture? You should know more.
 
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