M22759 based Speaker Cable

drlowmu

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I wonder if you have ever tried the wire I suggested on HFV this year? I feel it is worthy of a trial, a good listen.

It is m22759/11/12 which is copper multi stranded, with each strand silver plated, wrapped inside a teflon outer jacket. This is military-quality and specified wire.

The bare minimum for conductivity to a speaker is a single 12 AWG run ( ..... the " /12 " in the above designation ).

Double 12 AWG ( per polarity ) is guite a bit better as far as less transfer loss of energy, .............which would be 12AWG + 12 AWG ......per polarity.

Do you realize what this 12 plus 12 does ? Double 12 AWG gives excellent BASS ENERGY coupling -amp to speaker, but the individual SILVER plating of each copper strand, still maintains the HIGHS in a balanced to the music manner. ( A decent all around compromise. )

My favorite sounding amount of speaker lead wire to use is a trio of m22759/11, as in 12+12+14 AWG.

It provides the most coupling ( amp to speaker ) and the 14 AWG , gives the benefits of a " smaller AWG wire's " inherently better high end. This configuration thus becomes 12+12+14............ PER Speaker Polarity.

Lightly twist all three AWGs into a single polarity. I use copper spade lug terminations. I find banana plugs are too lossy, they play music somewhat non-linearly, and are a bit frequency selective.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BELOW is OPTIONAL :

Optionally, and only if your system approaches ultra-hi-fi in performance :

never allowing the two bundled polarities to touch each other ( even one time ),
in their journey from amp to speaker, will REDUCE capacitance, and your playback of music will exhibit a better, more natural and easy-to-hear - more OPEN SOUNDING high end.

Also very much optionally, my favorite amp-to-speaker wire length to use is 114 1/4 inches, with 57 1/8th inches being a second favorite length. This distance information was determined in the 1970s, confirmed in the 2020s.

My only request, if anyone makes up such leads and tries this out, tell us all on HFV your listening results on MUSIC.

I buy my m22759/11 wire from eBay, and very good is "Steve" at Apex Junior in price ....$0.50 a foot for 12 AWG !!!! This is very HIGH QUALITY MADE wire !!!! Listen to some.

Apex Jr Mil Spec Prices.jpg
 
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Gudebrod audio

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I wonder if you and Nikhil have ever tried the wire I suggested on HFV this year? I feel it is worthy of a trial, a good listen.

It is m22759/11/12 which is copper multi stranded, with each strand silver plated, wrapped inside a teflon outer jacket. This is military-quality and specified wire.

The bare minimum for conductivity to a speaker is a single 12 AWG run ( ..... the " /12 " in the above designation ).

Double 12 AWG ( per polarity ) is guite a bit better as far as less transfer loss of energy, .............which would be 12AWG + 12 AWG ......per polarity.

Do you realize what this 12 plus 12 does ? Double 12 AWG gives excellent BASS ENERGY coupling -amp to speaker, but the individual SILVER plating of each copper strand, still maintains the HIGHS in a balanced to the music manner. ( A decent all around compromise. )

My favorite sounding amount of speaker lead wire to use is a trio of m22759/11, as in 12+12+14 AWG.

It provides the most coupling ( amp to speaker ) and the 14 AWG , gives the benefits of a " smaller AWG wire's " inherently better high end. This configuration thus becomes 12+12+14............ PER Speaker Polarity.

Lightly twist all three AWGs into a single polarity. I use copper spade lug terminations. I find banana plugs are too lossy, they play music somewhat non-linearly, and are a bit frequency selective.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BELOW is OPTIONAL :

Optionally, and only if your system approaches ultra-hi-fi in performance :

never allowing the two bundled polarities to touch each other ( even one time ),
in their journey from amp to speaker, will REDUCE capacitance, and your playback of music will exhibit a better, more natural and easy-to-hear - more OPEN SOUNDING high end.

Also very much optionally, my favorite amp-to-speaker wire length to use is 114 1/4 inches, with 57 1/8th inches being a second favorite length. This distance information was determined in the 1970s, confirmed in the 2020s.

My only request, if anyone makes up such leads and tries this out, tell us all on HFV your listening results on MUSIC.

I buy my m22759/11 wire from eBay, and very good is "Steve" at Apex Junior in price ....$0.50 a foot for 12 AWG !!!! This is very HIGH QUALITY MADE wire !!!! Listen to some.

View attachment 73262
So, I thought I’d chime in here and share what I’ve learned. I’ve tried a few different manufactures for speaker wire. A friend brought over a pair of Reality cables top of the line. They sounded amazing so accurate and extremely balanced tone.
Then I was introduced to drlowmu, he shared info on this different way to wire your speakers. Intrigued, I asked for more info and what he shared was odd to me but interesting. As one who designs circuits and pays close attention to how I run my wiring this new way of building a speaker cable was one I had to try! 2 - 12ga., 1 - 14ga. 114 1/4” only using the military m22759/11.
Ok now it’s time to A/B the 2 different cables. I listen to mine for 1/2hr then swap out to the military grade.
Instantly I realized they need to break in, so 50hrs of break in happens and once done I reinstall my 2- 12ga solid core copper wires and listen for 30 mins. Now swap back to the military wires. Wow! My room was completely transformed! Same great super accurate frequency balance. (I have no tone controls) but smoother and the detail, the notes just hung in the air with ease clearer, cleaner I completely shocked! Those nice cables I bought from a retailer are now hanging in a closet in the dark. Lol!
These were a small investment and a huge gain in my system. I encourage everyone who can spend the extra money to invest it in this DIY well worth it!
 
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Nikhil

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It is m22759/11/12 which is copper multi stranded, with each strand silver plated, wrapped inside a teflon outer jacket. This is military-quality and specified wire.

Thanks for the info Jeff. Silver coated Copper is an interesting design.
Looked up M22759/11/12 online and found that it is an aerospace wire (SAE AS22759).

One manufacturer is Harbour Industries out of Shelburne, VT
Data Sheet: https://www.harbourind.com/images/stories/datasheets/M22759_Extruded_PTFE.pdf#zoom=100

Your cable recipe (12+12+14 per pole at 114 1/4 inch) reminds me of Arthur Salvatore's "Cobra" cable.
Not sure if I would be able to take on building a cable right now but it's an interesting concept.
I might just try out the standard12 AWG version when I get the chance.


.
 

drlowmu

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Thanks for the info Jeff. Silver coated Copper is an interesting design.
Looked up M22759/11/12 online and found that it is an aerospace wire (SAE AS22759).

One manufacturer is Harbour Industries out of Shelburne, VT
Data Sheet: https://www.harbourind.com/images/stories/datasheets/M22759_Extruded_PTFE.pdf#zoom=100

Your cable recipe (12+12+14 per pole at 114 1/4 inch) reminds me of Arthur Salvatore's "Cobra" cable.
Not sure if I would be able to take on building a cable right now but it's an interesting concept.
I might just try out the standard12 AWG version when I get the chance.


.

THANKS, for researching the wire's history.

Yes, this high quality wire is used sometimes in constructing space craft !!! Getting partial rolls from eBay is a decent way to do this as Steve gets low in inventory. Coordinate with me and I will help suggest good eBay auctions, .... under a dollar a foot please !

Honestly Nikhil, a single run is not meant as a "standard" approach, in my way of thought. A single run of 12 AWG is for someone on a budget, who is just starting out in audio, to hook up speakers. This does not strike me as you, from viewing your HFV photos and posts. :)

BUT, a single 12 AWG MAY be better sounding than any brand of 12 AWG wire audio people have been playing with, up until now.

Possibly so....as a very high quality design / construction is evident !!

For your home system, from photos posted, I would suggest trying two runs of 12 AWG per polarity. It will likely not be a waste of either your time or money. I initially ran two per polarity for over a year on my VOTT ALTEC A7-8 speakers. Not bad at all !!!

This 12+12+14 trio gets people to better couple their amp's output to their speaker's input. This provides an aural boost to the music's playback as a system in total. Single wires of 12 AWG are OK but not ideal. Larger amounts of wire than a single 12 improve bass and can normally overwhelm or lose the highs. With 12 + 12 or maybe 12+12+14, this spacecraft-quality copper wire is highly stranded - and is individually high-quality silver plated. The silver.............. helps the highs.

Yes. The wire's partial silver content is a better design compromise for audio , to maintain a balance IMHO / IME.

I am appealing to your brain in this post's wording, but the wire itself when heard, will appeal to your ears !! One has to build - and listen, to understand !!

For example, read post 64's testimony above, someone who built it and listened. From my count, the wire formula I presented herein is seven for seven as far as crushing what ever it replaced, in different people's audio systems. That is 100%. Most installations to-date were in tube amplified audio systems.

Who will hear it , and report back to all ?

Jeff
 
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Nikhil

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Jeff, thanks again for the recommendation.

But I think you have got me confused with some of the other guys. I am one of the slow pokes on here when it comes to making changes in my setup. I generally prefer to let things settle for a while before making any changes. I will be getting my amps back from the manufacturer soon. I would prefer to leave my cables unchanged until the amps settle down just to have an idea of what's going on with the changes (if any) in the amps.

You never know though. The cables are are very reasonably priced and I might just try them out when I get the time.



.
 

Dr.Gary

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So, I thought I’d chime in here and share what I’ve learned. I’ve tried a few different manufactures for speaker wire. A friend brought over a pair of Reality cables top of the line. They sounded amazing so accurate and extremely balanced tone.
Then I was introduced to drlowmu, he shared info on this different way to wire your speakers. Intrigued, I asked for more info and what he shared was odd to me but interesting. As one who designs circuits and pays close attention to how I run my wiring this new way of building a speaker cable was one I had to try! 2 - 12ga., 1 - 14ga. 114 1/4” only using the military m22759/11.
Ok now it’s time to A/B the 2 different cables. I listen to mine for 1/2hr then swap out to the military grade.
Instantly I realized they need to break in, so 50hrs of break in happens and once done I reinstall my 2- 12ga solid core copper wires and listen for 30 mins. Now swap back to the military wires. Wow! My room was completely transformed! Same great super accurate frequency balance. (I have no tone controls) but smoother and the detail, the notes just hung in the air with ease clearer, cleaner I completely shocked! Those nice cables I bought from a retailer are now hanging in a closet in the dark. Lol!
These were a small investment and a huge gain in my system. I encourage everyone who can spend the extra money to invest it in this DIY well worth it!
I"m quite fascinated by the need for the cables that you fabricated to require a "break in" period, and that leads me to wonder if the break in is permanent, or if the cables will need another break-in period if they are used with a different amplifier, different speaker or different amp/speaker combination. Also, if the cables that you have discarded are are still hanging in the closet, I'd be interested in trying them out in my system. So, if you would be willing to send them to me, I'd gladly pay the freight.
 

drlowmu

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As has been FM requested :

" Tips on BUYING M22759/11 WIRE "


First, determine the correct amounts of wire you will need to use.

All below is, length-wise speaking, for a two Fulton Length ( 114 ¼ inch / 9.52 feet ) amplifier-to-speaker wire set.

Wire bundles are made as 12+12+14 AWG m22759/11 runs, each length is 114 ¼ inches or 9.52 feet.

A trio of wire is for ONE speaker polarity. For stereo speakers we need a set of four polarity bundles ( of trios ) total, a positive and negative polarity, for each stereo speaker.

Four polarity bundles, times 3 in a bundle, is 12 individual lead lengths total.

Eight leads are of 12 AWG, four leads are 14 AWG. Each lead's length is 9.52 feet.

You realize, we need 12 leads times 9.52 feet lengths of wire, or 114.24 feet TOTAL.

8 leads @12 AWG is 76.16 feet of 12 AWG. 4 leads of 14 AWG is 38.08 feet of 14 AWG.


NEXT :

Contemplate and decide upon outer sheathing teflon jacket COLORS that you will accept.


The Purchase.

Two cost-effective sources. “ Steve” the owner of “ Apex Jr. ” in Torrance, California , has the best surplus-priced inventory selection at about the lowest of prices. Selected sellers on eBay auctions, is the second best source, when skillfully selected.

The only problem with Steve is he has gotten popular for supplying this wire, and he runs out of cost effective ( to him ) inventories specifically labeled m22759/11. Steve has researched m22759/11 and in many more instances, he may substitute another Mil Spec number, where the wire supposedly has the same technical characteristics. He will disclose this - if you ask him. Steve is honest !! Best prices typically.

If you prefer no substitutes ( with the m22759/11 being written on the outside teflon jacket of such Mil Spec wire ), buy it “ surplus ” yourself, direct on eBay. It can be auction priced, wildly..... high, retail, or discounted surplus, depending upon the Seller.


Ebay TIPS :

You start with 12 AWG. Seek to spend under a dollar a foot, including shipping. Only consider and eBay search for those auctions, in your color/s. Need 76.16 feet of 12 AWG. Sellers will auction entire reels ( too much ) , sometimes 150 or 100 feet, still on the reel, or sometimes a bit less, still on the reel. Other times, Sellers will list same wire in different lengths and costs.......eg: 50 feet bundles, 25 feet bundles and ten feet bundles.

For your 76.16 feet need, please DO open up auctions of these 25 feet and over bundles, and observe HOW MANY multiple bundles the seller has. Then, write to seller and ask if these multiple ( eg , 25 foot ) bundles are already CUT, or if he still has a longer amount UNCUT. If his price per foot is good, right AWG, right color, consider committing … to his one long length, eg : four multiples of his uncut 25 foot bundles.


Same procedure as above, applies for your needed 38.08 feet of 14 AWG Mil Spec wire. Not quite as costly per foot as 12 AWG.


You have to juggle shipping cost, at all times, and shipping cost in total to you. It is dynamic !!


You will often have to look at several auctions, so take notes, and it is best to commit once (after )ALL your needs are possible to fulfill. Maybe even combine with Steve at Apex Jr. on the telephone, and / or eBay sellers, to make your actual commitment, financially.

You lightly twist neatly each trio / polarity of 12+12+14 together. But you should never let your finished positive and negative polarity lead bundles touch each other, one time in the installation, from the amplifier to your speaker's binding posts. It loses highs - on one touch. I strip 5/8ths of an inch of teflon off each wire end, and solder the stripped ends and neatly twisted trio into a copper spade lug. Eg: eBay auction search words “ 4 gauge copper lug. ”

Consider ordering some extra 12 AWG perhaps, and a little 14 AWG to wire inside components, and to make up 9.52 feet 12 AWG AC cables, hook up woofers, etc. Report back please.`


Have fun, this is something for the m22759/11 buyer alone, to do - for himself. This wire is very good sounding on my system, and also on the others we have applied it to so far. No guarantee comes.

Jeff
 
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sachinchavan 15865

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As has been FM requested :

" Tips on BUYING M22759/11 WIRE "


First, determine the correct amounts of wire you will need to use.

All below is, length-wise speaking, for a two Fulton Length ( 114 ¼ inch / 9.52 feet ) amplifier-to-speaker wire set.

Wire bundles are made as 12+12+14 AWG m22759/11 runs, each length is 114 ¼ inches or 9.52 feet.

A trio of wire is for ONE speaker polarity. For stereo speakers we need a set of four polarity bundles ( of trios ) total, a positive and negative polarity, for each stereo speaker.

Four polarity bundles, times 3 in a bundle, is 12 individual lead lengths total.

Eight leads are of 12 AWG, four leads are 14 AWG. Each lead's length is 9.52 feet.

You realize, we need 12 leads times 9.52 feet lengths of wire, or 114.24 feet TOTAL.

8 leads @12 AWG is 76.16 feet of 12 AWG. 4 leads of 14 AWG is 38.08 feet of 14 AWG.


NEXT :

Contemplate and decide upon outer sheathing teflon jacket COLORS that you will accept.


The Purchase.

Two cost-effective sources. “ Steve” the owner of “ Apex Jr. ” in Torrance, California , has the best surplus-priced inventory selection at about the lowest of prices. Selected sellers on eBay auctions, is the second best source, when skillfully selected.

The only problem with Steve is he has gotten popular for supplying this wire, and he runs out of cost effective ( to him ) inventories specifically labeled m22759/11. Steve has researched m22759/11 and in many more instances, he may substitute another Mil Spec number, where the wire supposedly has the same technical characteristics. He will disclose this - if you ask him. Steve is honest !! Best prices typically.

If you prefer no substitutes ( with the m22759/11 being written on the outside teflon jacket of such Mil Spec wire ), buy it “ surplus ” yourself, direct on eBay. It can be auction priced, wildly..... high, retail, or discounted surplus, depending upon the Seller.


Ebay TIPS :

You start with 12 AWG. Seek to spend under a dollar a foot, including shipping. Only consider and eBay search for those auctions, in your color/s. Need 76.16 feet of 12 AWG. Sellers will auction entire reels ( too much ) , sometimes 150 or 100 feet, still on the reel, or sometimes a bit less, still on the reel. Other times, Sellers will list same wire in different lengths and costs.......eg: 50 feet bundles, 25 feet bundles and ten feet bundles.

For your 76.16 feet need, please DO open up auctions of these 25 feet and over bundles, and observe HOW MANY multiple bundles the seller has. Then, write to seller and ask if these multiple ( eg , 25 foot ) bundles are already CUT, or if he still has a longer amount UNCUT. If his price per foot is good, right AWG, right color, consider committing … to his one long length, eg : four multiples of his uncut 25 foot bundles.


Same procedure as above, applies for your needed 38.08 feet of 14 AWG Mil Spec wire. Not quite as costly per foot as 12 AWG.


You have to juggle shipping cost, at all times, and shipping cost in total to you. It is dynamic !!


You will often have to look at several auctions, so take notes, and it is best to commit once (after )ALL your needs are possible to fulfill. Maybe even combine with Steve at Apex Jr. on the telephone, and / or eBay sellers, to make your actual commitment, financially.

You lightly twist neatly each trio / polarity of 12+12+14 together. But you should never let your finished positive and negative polarity lead bundles touch each other, one time in the installation, from the amplifier to your speaker's binding posts. It loses highs - on one touch. I strip 5/8ths of an inch of teflon off each wire end, and solder the stripped ends and neatly twisted trio into a copper spade lug. Eg: eBay auction search words “ 4 gauge copper lug. ”

Consider ordering some extra 12 AWG perhaps, and a little 14 AWG to wire inside components, and to make up 9.52 feet 12 AWG AC cables, hook up woofers, etc. Report back please.`


Have fun, this is something for the m22759/11 buyer alone, to do - for himself. This wire is very good sounding on my system, and also on the others we have applied it to so far. No guarantee comes.

Jeff
Your passion to share your learnings/experience and the painstaking effort to do so in utmost detail is quite admirable! Hope there are some DIY members who’d try that elaborate recipe you’ve provided.
 

arj

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----
Consider ordering some extra 12 AWG perhaps, and a little 14 AWG to wire inside components, and to make up 9.52 feet 12 AWG AC cables, hook up woofers, etc. Report back please.`
-----
Hi Jeff, is this 9.52 feet the length of wire from Amp terminal to Speaker terminal OR the length of the wire including the 1/2 inch which goes into the terminal ?
 

drlowmu

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Hi Jeff, is this 9.52 feet the length of wire from Amp terminal to Speaker terminal OR the length of the wire including the 1/2 inch which goes into the terminal ?

Hi again arj,

I have never known the answer Mr. Fulton would have given to me on that. ( He lived 1925 to 1988. )

However, you are asking about under 1%, either way. So much else in our audio system, is less exact !!!

I just arbitrarily but uniformly will cut the wire itself two Fulton lengths ( 57 1/8th Xs 2 or 114 1/4 inches, or 9.52 feet ), on builds.

I don't include terminals' lengths.

I think it is "wild" that in 2020, my current audio Mentor audibly preferred the basic Fulton length, and then, liked two in series best. This was for speaker leads on his good SOTA performing audio system. Same applied length-wise, to his USA 120 VAC component power feed cable lengths, two lengths he preferred, using m22759/11/12. ( /11 denotes silver and /12 denotes 12 AWG. )


Only the speaker lead bundles get this 12+12+14 trio treatment. Realize a trio has improved transfer efficiency - amp to speaker-wise, versus a single 12 AWG connection. The silver plating ( /11 ) and smaller /14 AWG single run ALLOWS for our use of a trio, and still maintain a balanced -solid bottom to top end. Several design factors are " coming together " simultaneously in this construct I've proposed to everyone !!

Jeff
 
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drlowmu

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TRIO terminals :

eBay search term words : " Bare copper 4 Gauge 5/16 "

My favored auction choice / suggestion, in that set of results : Ebay Auction 191352362946

Ten terminals, for eight ends. The 4 AWG size is something that fits ( stripped 12+12+14 ) - and it is usable, in many situations. If anyone finds something better suited, kindly let us all know !!!
 
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Dr.Gary

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Hi again arj,

I have never known the answer Mr. Fulton would have given to me on that. ( He lived 1925 to 1988. )

However, you are asking about under 1%, either way. So much else in our audio system, is less exact !!!

I just arbitrarily but uniformly will cut the wire itself two Fulton lengths ( 57 1/8th Xs 2 or 114 1/4 inches, or 9.52 feet ), on builds.

I don't include terminals' lengths.

I think it is "wild" that in 2020, my current audio Mentor audibly preferred the basic Fulton length, and then, liked two in series best. This was for speaker leads on his good SOTA performing audio system. Same applied length-wise, to his USA 120 VAC component power feed cable lengths, two lengths he preferred, using m22759/11/12. ( /11 denotes silver and /12 denotes 12 AWG. )


Only the speaker lead bundles get this 12+12+14 trio treatment. Realize a trio has improved transfer efficiency - amp to speaker-wise, versus a single 12 AWG connection. The silver plating ( /11 ) and smaller /14 AWG single run ALLOWS for our use of a trio, and still maintain a balanced -solid bottom to top end. Several design factors are " coming together " simultaneously in this construct I've proposed to everyone !!

Jeff
Presumably and hopefully, the answer that Fulton would have given you is the same as what can be easily determined by anyone who currently has any of his original-length brown or gold speaker cables. In other words, there is an abundance of direct evidence that Fulton left behind.
 

Nikhil

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Jeff,

Do you have picture you can share of what your cable looks like when terminated at the speaker and amp binding posts?
That sounds like it's going to be a bunch of lugs (6 left + 6 right = 12 lugs). Would like to see what it looks like.

With that many wires, is there a risk of the amps going into oscillation? Just asking.
Although tube gear may not have the issue, I suspect some SS amp users would have to be careful.
Either way this is a huge mass of cable hanging of your amp/speaker binding posts!

Regards


.
 
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drlowmu

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Jeff,

Do you have picture you can share of what your cable looks like when terminated at the speaker and amp binding posts?
That sounds like it's going to be a bunch of lugs (6 left + 6 right = 12 lugs). Would like to see what it looks like.

With that many wires, is there a risk of the amps going into oscillation? Just asking.
Although tube gear may not have the issue, I suspect some SS amp users would have to be careful.
Either way this is a huge mass of cable hanging of your amp/speaker binding posts!

Regards


.

No Nikhil, it is not exactly as you have envisioned and wrote above.


All three lead ends ( 12 +12+14 AWG ) nicely fit inside one 4 Gauge Copper terminal, where the three wires get crimped and soldered.

A " Trioed Terminal " represent's either a positive or a negative Polarity, of a single speaker's lead , going to your left or right hi fi speaker.

At the amplifier's end, we are talking of only four 4 Gauge terminal locations - total,.......to connect both of your stereo speakers. At each speaker's end, we use just two 4 Gauge terminals, one for feeding the positive and one for feeding the negative music signal.

Thus for a stereo system we need eight ( total ) 4 gauge copper terminals, and I am guessing choosing a 5/16ths inch hole.

The auction I referred everyone to is for ten terminals, so that is enough. You should study the 4 Gauge terminal's design, by looking carefully at that auction's several photos. eBay search is 191352362946. Also, look at the many eBay auction wire photos, searched as " m22759/11/12 ", their close ups and sometimes bundled photos, to get a good idea of what the Mil Spec wire looks like, in 12 AWG.

I am not set up to take photos at this moment. Also, my leads are the first prototypes, quickly constructed, not so neatly twisted, Little thought employed as to wire color and to in-the-air routing !! I wanted to HEAR it, see if it worked as described to me ....... and it subsequently just stayed - several years ago.

Also note please, this " m22759/11 TRIO " really is not a casual audio means of connection. It truly IMHO becomes a separate audio component in your system.

You do not hide it, you pick wire colors you can live with, and twist the Trio as nicely as you wish. It stays separated, one Trio Polarity from another NOT resting on a rug, but in mid air. So yes, pick colors, twist it neatly, and form it's path to your speakers so you are pleased. I have no wife !! See.


Best wishes to all.
 

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drlowmu

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To go along with this above wire thread of mine, I would like to refer everyone to USA audio Manufacturer, Steve Deckert's web site, on speaker cable :


Guess what he uses, and sells to clients. Yes, .................. m22759/11.

He likes them magnetically " spread apart", precisely like I advised you all herein - " do not to allow polarities to touch. " Good for Steve. Actually, he likes, sells and uses 8 AWG, , a single wire per polarity, to have a really high Transfer Function.

I have not bothered to listen to single 8 AWG. I have listened to single 10 AWG. IMHO, 10 AWG is not as balanced nor as good as the 12 AWG wires . 10 AWG has that " big wire" sound, where the highs are compromised while displaying good bass. For an ALTEC 15 inch woofer, two times 12 AWG outperforms a single Mil Spec 10 AWG run.

Realize how smart the use of 12 + 12 ( equals 9 AWG ) + 14 AWG ....... is ????????

The addition of the 14 AWG reduces the 12+12 ( equals 9 AWG ) to - guessing ...about 7 AWG .

The addition of the smaller 14 AWG assures we couple even better yet, than 12+12 alone, and with 14 AWG in the mix, also has less compromise with our high end response and overall system wire balance. :)

12+12+14 is balanced as a TRIO, with superb Transfer Efficiency and it is high in transparency. So maybe our DIY TRIO equals 7 AWG, but " without the addition of " too big of a wire " sound ( loss of highs ).

Also, we DIY employ Robert Fulton wire lengths, developed in the 1970s, and tested / confirmed on my Mentor's State of the Art audio system in 2019 . Performance for free, 57 1/8th inches times two or 114 1/4 inches. Finally, we would NEVER terminate a TRIO with a banana plug-like connector. That type of connection is a degrade VS a well designed spade lug.

So there we have it.

I love what my TRIOs do for the music on my VOTT ( Voice of the Theatre ) A7-8s. Just listen to it, and share your listening comments from your direct experience, to us all.
 
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drlowmu

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It is Sunday. 12-04-2022, and we have today received an eighth reported result, of the TRIO DIY speaker cable.

Look up the specifications and PRICE of an Audio Note pure silver speaker cable, don't know if it is AN of Great Britain or AN of Japan.

Connection was from a great tube SE DC amplifier to Vintage Lowther Drivers, each mounted in the large Beauhorn speaker enclosures. The TRIO wires I recommend to DIY here simply " wiped out " the Audio Note Silver speaker leads. Highly experienced listener's exact words written today to me , " more natural and balanced " with a big thumbs-up logo afterwards .

Well fellow Hi Fi Vision Forum Member friends, we are as of today, 100%, or eight for eight - in DIY TRIO wire comparison " wipe outs " on very GOOD Hi Fi Systems.

What DID that silver Audio Note set of speaker leads cost him ?????? Anyone know?? Who will be first person to DIY build a set of TRIOS in India, on HFV, and actually LISTEN ???? Eric from Gudebrod DIY did this in the USA, read his post above # 2 . Who besides Eric.......... actually believes me ???

Sincerely, Jeffrey Medwin

Beauhorn / Lowther Photo :
 
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Dr.Gary

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To go along with this above wire thread of mine, I would like to refer everyone to USA audio Manufacturer, Steve Deckert's web site, on speaker cable :


Guess what he uses, and sells to clients. Yes, .................. m22759/11.

He likes them magnetically " spread apart", precisely like I advised you all herein - " do not to allow polarities to touch. " Good for Steve. Actually, he likes, sells and uses 8 AWG, , a single wire per polarity, to have a really high Transfer Function.

I have not bothered to listen to single 8 AWG. I have listened to single 10 AWG. IMHO, 10 AWG is not as balanced nor as good as the 12 AWG wires . 10 AWG has that " big wire" sound, where the highs are compromised while displaying good bass. For an ALTEC 15 inch woofer, two times 12 AWG outperforms a single Mil Spec 10 AWG run.

Realize how smart the use of 12 + 12 ( equals 9 AWG ) + 14 AWG ....... is ????????

The addition of the 14 AWG reduces the 12+12 ( equals 9 AWG ) to - guessing ...about 7 AWG .

The addition of the smaller 14 AWG assures we couple even better yet, than 12+12 alone, and with 14 AWG in the mix, also has less compromise with our high end response and overall system wire balance. :)

12+12+14 is balanced as a TRIO, with superb Transfer Efficiency and it is high in transparency. So maybe our DIY TRIO equals 7 AWG, but " without the addition of " too big of a wire " sound ( loss of highs ).

Also, we DIY employ Robert Fulton wire lengths, developed in the 1970s, and tested / confirmed on my Mentor's State of the Art audio system in 2019 . Performance for free, 57 1/8th inches times two or 114 1/4 inches. Finally, we would NEVER terminate a TRIO with a banana plug-like connector. That type of connection is a degrade VS a well designed spade lug.

So there we have it.

I love what my TRIOs do for the music on my VOTT ( Voice of the Theatre ) A7-8s. Just listen to it, and share your listening comments from your direct experience, to us all.
The nominal lengths of speaker cables that Fulton sold were 57", 14', 28' and 56'. And that leads me to wonder how it is that your current mentor finds 114" (9.5') to be the superior length and how it is that Fulton, who supposedly discovered the magical base length of 57" missed it.

12+12+14 gives you 8 awg combined together.

Here is the link https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire-Gauge-Calculator_ep_42.html
What is the basis upon which someone should assume that the net equivalence of cable gauge has any relevance to the performance of paralleled speaker wires?
 

drlowmu

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Looked up Audio Note silver cables ( UK ) from a 2020 review by Jeff Day in the USA :

" Audio Note (UK) AN-SPe silver loudspeaker cables utilize 19 strand silver Litz conductors, which are custom drawn to their specific gauge requirements, and then coated in a variety of dielectric polymers depending on the application the particular cable is designed for. The coated Litz conductors are wrapped in a silver colored PVC sleeve to keep everything together.

The USD retail price for AN-SPe silver speaker cables that were sent to me, a 4 meter stereo set, would be priced at $5,228 USD, which is $1307 USD per meter. "

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -

The DIY TRIOS I suggest to HFV FMs in this thread, and what we rely upon/use, which were preferred today over A.N. Silvers ( UK or Jap ???). DIY TRIOS,, as a stereo pair - cost about $40 USD per meter. For $40 USD you MAY get, as reported today, " a more natural and better balance ", ( and keep $1.267 USD per meter in savings.)

Just LISTEN to them, and tell us all what you hear. That is ALL that matters here. Trash the conjecture. What does DIY TRIO sound like, to YOU ?? Tell us !!!

Sincerely,

Jeff Medwin
 
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Dr.Gary

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It is Sunday. 12-04-2022, and we have today received an eighth reported result, of the TRIO DIY speaker cable.

Look up the specifications and PRICE of an Audio Note pure silver speaker cable, don't know if it is AN of Great Britain or AN of Japan.

Connection was from a great tube SE DC amplifier to Vintage Lowther Drivers, each mounted in the large Beauhorn speaker enclosures. The TRIO wires I recommend to DIY here simply " wiped out " the Audio Note Silver speaker leads. Highly experienced listener's exact words written today to me , " more natural and balanced " with a big thumbs-up logo afterwards .

Well fellow Hi Fi Vision Forum Member friends, we are as of today, 100%, or eight for eight - in DIY TRIO wire comparison " wipe outs " on very GOOD Hi Fi Systems.

What DID that silver Audio Note set of speaker leads cost him ?????? Anyone know?? Who will be first person to DIY build a set of TRIOS in India, on HFV, and actually LISTEN ???? Eric from Gudebrod DIY did this in the USA, read his post above # 2 . Who besides Eric.......... actually believes me ???

Sincerely, Jeffrey Medwin

Beauhorn / Lowther Photo :
NO, we are NOT eight for eight. We are one (you) speaking for an alleged eight. And, while I can't speak for others, I prefer to hear testimonials first hand and directly from the actual audiophiles who did the comparative listening. I would also prefer to be able to ask questions and have them answered in an interactive forum such as this. So, it would be a lot more beneficial and instructive if you would just let us know where these alleged eight rave testimonials can be found.
 
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