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Measures to Reduce the Boomyness of speakers

AV Cables

mahiruha

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Hello,
I have this Harmony one spekars from Lyrita audio and am quite happy with its performence expect the fact it sounds a bit boomy because of its close proximity to the wall. The problem is I don't have any space left in the room to move the speakers bit away from the wall. I was wondering if it is possible to include something in between which will only send signals above 150Hz to the single driver speaker and the signals below 150Hz will be sent to my wharfedale 150 subwoofer. Now the question is will it really eliminate the boomyness. I have come across this product
Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 ( Courtesy Bangalore HFV thread)
Ultra High-Precision Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz Loudspeaker Management System
BEHRINGER: DCX2496


which I think will do the job but I am not too sure specially after looking at the rear panel the connectors doesn't look familier.

Can somebody please suggest me will it really solve the problem or complicate it more. Also I would like to know is it the case that speakers which are not rear ported also need spacings like rear ported speakers a minimum distance of 3 ft from the rear and side walls.
Please also suggest if there is an alternative less complex solution.
Thanks,
Mahiruha.
 

soundsgreat

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Hi,

I have this Harmony one spekars from Lyrita audio and am quite happy with its performence expect the fact it sounds a bit boomy because of its close proximity to the wall. The problem is I don't have any space left in the room to move the speakers bit away from the wall


This is quite common phenomena, the speakers need room on all sides irrespective front ported or rear (Rear ported needs more room towards back) !! how close is it from the back and sides walls ??

I was wondering if it is possible to include something in between which will only send signals above 150Hz to the single driver speaker and the signals below 150Hz will be sent to my wharfedale 150 subwoofer.

Quite bad idea,the harmony one is horn loaded design which is made for the extended low frequency response,and as you know its a fullrange speaker which doesn't use any Xovers like conventional multiway designs,the addition of a Xover will have its effects on SQ !!

Also though the SW150 is a good performer Am not at all for idea of it being used to Augment the LF is music mode especially with your combo !!

Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 ( Courtesy Bangalore HFV thread)
Ultra High-Precision Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz Loudspeaker Management System
BEHRINGER: DCX2496

Yes the product is good but may not work you,what you have read is correct that its used to drive the EP's but what you have missed out is,The one's that come with EP's have a proprietary software loaded onto them to exactly take the On Axis response of EP's to FLAT !!

Can somebody please suggest me will it really solve the problem or complicate it more.

With above I say it will most likely to be the later of what you have quoted then former !!

Please also suggest if there is an alternative less complex solution.

Yes this is more logical approach to solve the problem ;)!! LESS COMPLEX :D!!

What you can do is,check and see what sort of material is used for the internal damping of the speakers, if they've used any of type of fibrefill or the likes then,

Either you can add more of the same type (start with the lowest amount gradually increasing according what you think is ideal ) or Completely remove that use standard Glasswool !

If you chose the Glasswool option then it has to be 32Kg Density and Min 50MM thickness !!

Please do post the details of the internal material if possible some internal pics (hoping you will be able to remove the drivers and also hoping there is no warranty issue involved ) !! Will be able to elaborate more on the solution if needed !

Regards.
 

mahiruha

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Hi,




This is quite common phenomena, the speakers need room on all sides irrespective front ported or rear (Rear ported needs more room towards back) !! how close is it from the back and sides walls ??



Quite bad idea,the harmony one is horn loaded design which is made for the extended low frequency response,and as you know its a fullrange speaker which doesn't use any Xovers like conventional multiway designs,the addition of a Xover will have its effects on SQ !!

Also though the SW150 is a good performer Am not at all for idea of it being used to Augment the LF is music mode especially with your combo !!



Yes the product is good but may not work you,what you have read is correct that its used to drive the EP's but what you have missed out is,The one's that come with EP's have a proprietary software loaded onto them to exactly take the On Axis response of EP's to FLAT !!



With above I say it will most likely to be the later of what you have quoted then former !!



Yes this is more logical approach to solve the problem ;)!! LESS COMPLEX :D!!

What you can do is,check and see what sort of material is used for the internal damping of the speakers, if they've used any of type of fibrefill or the likes then,

Either you can add more of the same type (start with the lowest amount gradually increasing according what you think is ideal ) or Completely remove that use standard Glasswool !

If you chose the Glasswool option then it has to be 32Kg Density and Min 50MM thickness !!

Please do post the details of the internal material if possible some internal pics (hoping you will be able to remove the drivers and also hoping there is no warranty issue involved ) !! Will be able to elaborate more on the solution if needed !

Regards.
Hi SG,
thanks for your detailed reply.Well right now the speakers are placed 1ft away from the rear wall and 3 ft away from the side wall, that is the maximum that can be allowed. it is true when you say that " with EP's have a proprietary software loaded onto them to exactly take the On Axis response of EP's to FLAT !!" but I have gone through the manual and it seems it can be used with any speakers. Isn't it possible to feed into the software Harmony one's on axis response.
The second option you have suggested is out of question since I don't know how to remove the drivers and don't really want to.:)
But this glasswool damping sounds interesting. do you think something can be done in the line of putting a glass wool coverd frame behind the speakers on the wall. something like a bass trap.

Thanks.
 

rikhav

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Hi Cranky
I think you have mistaken of Mahi using the Amity's
He is using Harmony Ones
 

deba

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The easiest and simple way to solve such problem is a graphic equalizer....go for a 15 band in place of a 31 band which is easier to tune for beginners......
 

mahiruha

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Hello all,
thanks for your valuable inputs.
@Cranky: My speaker has only a single driver. I don't have the Amity speakers so no internal crossover. I think the most useful solution as suggested by you is to introduce a tone controller or a Grpahic equalizer in the chain. Now the question is what kind of product are available in the market. Now I have a question here.
Where this equalizer is introduced in the chain. Is it before the pre amplifier or after the pre amplifier? do they include A/D converter and a subsequent D/A converter and if so unless they are of good quality can they imrpove the performence? when you say "The DCX2496 is overkill for your setup and you'll have to create a custom response file, and you need to first take measurements" do you mean that DCX2496 is a overkill for its complexity or the changes won't be felt due the quality of the rest of chain.
@Deba: Can you please suggest some good 15 band graphic equalizer?
Thanks.
 

gobble

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Instead of fiddling with equipment and signal how about room treatment ?
A pair of 6 foot bass traps from the ceiling towards the ground?

Regards
 

suri

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Instead of fiddling with equipment and signal how about room treatment ?
A pair of 6 foot bass traps from the ceiling towards the ground?

Regards

3 feet in diameter? - to absorb 150 hz waves?
 

mahiruha

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Instead of fiddling with equipment and signal how about room treatment ?
A pair of 6 foot bass traps from the ceiling towards the ground?

Regards

Hi Gobble,
thanks for the advise. But there is a problems I have my projector screen behind the speakers and they will get completely covered.
Thanks.
 

mahiruha

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Hi Mahiruha,

I have a vintage Kenwood GE5020 graphic equalizer, described here http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhanc...tion-system-top-flight-chain-2.html#post97165 .

You can test with my Kenwood to see if things improve.

Regards.

Hello Asit,
thanks for the offer.I will definitely try it out to see how they work and if they can solve the problem. BTW how do you connect it in the chain? The tape loop that Cranky has pointed out I don't have it. Let me check the manual of your equalizer to see how it works.
Thanks.
 

Asit

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Hi Mahiruha,

You need a loop, that is, your amp should have an out and an in, like a tape loop (where the in is for tape playback, and the out is for recording into a tape), or a pre-out and power-in, or an out and in for any external processors (like the old HK integ amps used to have). If you do not have any of these these loops, you cannot use an equaliser.

Regards.
 

gobble

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Hi Gobble,
thanks for the advise. But there is a problems I have my projector screen behind the speakers and they will get completely covered.
Thanks.

Two cylinders of 2 ft diameter hanging vertically in the "L" corner of the walls is what I had in mind. But then 2 ft might be too less for a bass trap.

Regards
 

Asit

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Yes Cranky, I missed that one, thanks. Mahiruha has two sources, a CDP and a TT. So it's not too much of a trouble reconnecting the equaliser to the source. He uses the TT mostly, I think.

So, Mahiruha, the connection this way would be as follows (as cranky already said): source --> equaliser in --> equaliser out --> amp. You need one xtra IC. If you do not have that, I have plenty of spare ICs.

Regards.
 

viren bakhshi

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Hi Mahiruha,

Can you post a picture showing the current location of your speakers along the wall of your room (include the adjoining corners)? Let's see if we can help you any in repositioning the speakers for better sound. Also, to see if there's space for corner bass traps.

I'd be wary of using an equalizer to adjust for room problems. You introduce additional solid-state circuitry in the signal path, with it's accompanying electronic glare. The very harshness in sound that you've got away from using simple tube-based circuits!

By all means try the equalizer for determining what frequencies in the bass region are causing your problems. Then we should seek other, more benign ways of correcting them.

Regards,
Viren
 

Asit

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You introduce additional solid-state circuitry in the signal path, with it's accompanying electronic glare. The very harshness in sound that you've got away from using simple tube-based circuits!


As far as I know mahiruha had an entry level AVR for use with 2-channel music. I am not sure it is a very useful reference point.

I have to agree that although I offered the service of my Kenwood equaliser (for test purposes only, as mentioned already before, I do not intend to sell it), I have not thought enough about this approach to room correction and I do not have any practical experience following this approach.

Nevertheless, this (Kenwood) is a good piece of equipment. When I use it in my chain occasionally, it does not noticeably add or subtract anything from the sonics if set to null equalisation. This has been true with my previous SS amp for the last 20 years, and it is also true with my new Leben which BTW is a far superior amp IMHO and belongs to a different class when properly set up. Mahiruha, you shall realize that when (if you ever) come to my place and judge for yourself in a neutral unbiased and calm (not party-like) atmosphere.

I am having a hard time coping with the propagation of an attitude which is dismissive of all other products (especially SS) in the universe. I thought one prime purpose of HFV is to provide as much information as possible to all folks in a tolerant manner.

Regards.
 

stevieboy

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hi mahiruha,

try closing to port behind with some material, a ball of cloth for starters it ought to reduce bass response though the sound will change a little in character, a little. it ought to be an acceptable compromise.

the other thing you do is listen to music with your mouth wide open. this way the huge bass waves enter through your ears and exit through your mouth. a very good transmission line design. found this out when i was on an assignment in the old USSR during the cold war days. they also used an iron curtain to shield unwanted signal interference.

regards
 

stevieboy

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I am having a hard time coping with the propagation of an attitude which is dismissive of all other products (especially SS) in the universe.
Regards.

hi asit,

when one introduces a piece of solid state equiment into a tube chain one does introduce the typical characteristic of solid state. a definite hardness compared to the warmth of tubes. and that's a difference one can hear. that's why some people pair tube pres with a solid state power. since mahiruha has gone all tube it's a good pointer to think before re-introducing solid state and weigh the benefits he'd get for the compromises he'd have to accept. it would certainly lose some of the magic of an all tube setup. this seems quite logical to me especially since i've lived with tubes for a while and every time i hear solid state i do hear that hardness why do you take it as dismissive?

regards

edit: a prime comparison is the emerald physics i heard on sunday. it uses a behringer equalizer and while the open baffle sounds lovely it certainly sounds different from a crossoverless single driver sound!
 
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odyssey

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As others have suggested, going the DCX way is an overkill. You are right that it can be used in any setup (not necessarily EPs). You have to be really familiar with the speaker/crossover to be using the many features of the DCX. If you just want to use an equalizer, you are better of buying a standalone one. How much degradation of sound vs benefits of control at different frequencies you will experience - only you can tell after you try it out.

cheers
 
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