Measures to Reduce the Boomyness of speakers

[arj]

As mentioned by Viren, could you show a figure with your setup ?
The easiest thing is to put an equaliser, but that should be your last option. lets try some room placement first .

Since Boom is usually due to some frequencies getting "enhanced" and fortified due to boundaries, it would be best to find out the frequencies causing this boom

1. try to read these articles to get a feel of treatments

asc
gordon room
the Listening Room

2. the below link has some test tones. try to download them and play them (even from you computer)..that should help isolate the frequencies at which you have a boom...that will help in finding a good "Cure" even if it is via equalisation

RealTraps - Test Tone CD

 

[murali_n]

Hai all,

A lining of 40mm thick foam of good density inside the speaker cabinets will reduce the boominess IMHO. I have experimented it with success.

N.Murali

 

[arj]

hi mahiruha,

try closing to port behind with some material, a ball of cloth for starters it ought to reduce bass response though the sound will change a little in character, a little. it ought to be an acceptable compromise.

Stevieboy, i am not in favour of this unless the speaker has been designed with Foam Bungs as an optopn. One tweak you could still try is by plugging the port with Straws instead of foam..but all of these does alter the bass response as well as impacts the midrange of the speaker (not sure of the additional pressure and the impact on the drivers)

 

[deba]

Go for a dbx 215 - 15 band EQ from Singh Pandit Electronics,Kolkata. Contact Number 2215-9139 & 6243.

 

[gobble]

3 feet in diameter? - to absorb 150 hz waves?

That should be 7 feet. My guesstimates were wrong but I was thinking the vertical height of 6 ft should reduce some of the boomines? (Assuming some of it comes around 200hz).

Cheers

 

[gobble]

hi asit,

when one introduces a piece of solid state equiment into a tube chain one does introduce the typical characteristic of solid state. a definite hardness compared to the warmth of tubes. and that's a difference one can hear. that's why some people pair tube pres with a solid state power. since Mahiruha has gone all tube it's a good pointer to think before re-introducing solid state and weigh the benefits he'd get for the compromises he'd have to accept. it would certainly lose some of the magic of an all tube setup. this seems quite logical to me especially since I've lived with tubes for a while and every time i hear solid state i do hear that hardness why do you take it as dismissive?

regards

edit: a prime comparison is the emerald physics i heard on sunday. it uses a behringer equalizer and while the open baffle sounds lovely it certainly sounds different from a crossoverless single driver sound!

I have heard tubes only for a few weeks compared to a year of solid state sound. And I can certainly agree with Stevie about the hardness and glare of SS. The memory of the smoothness of tube SQ is firmly imprinted in my head. To give some analogies - it is comparable and instantly recognizable (i.e implicitly and non-verbally to ones mind when tasted), as the difference between home made crusty ice cream vs a softy, or the taste of hard water vs soft water on your tongue .

The point here is Mahi has gone for the tube sound. Even though there may be high-end SS gear that may compare favorably with tubes, the mass market gear with its SS sound is certainly not what Mahi wanted. Hence I believe the concern about SS harness vs tubes was appropriately voiced.

That said I believe Viren's Tube sitting in front will still soften the sound emitted from the speakers to a great degree even with an SS equalizer in the chain.

Edit: Yes even I can no longer digest the sound of a crossover after 6 months with a single driver as with the Behringer. And thus have a strong suspicion that Mahi may not like it either.

Regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hi All,
thanks for the valuable inputs. Well managed to take the pictures which gives a decent idea about my space limitations.

Well it is clearly visible that I can't really move the speakers may be one thing can be done is to remove the jamo speakers from the room but I am not too sure how the Lyrita speakers can be connected simultaniously with the integrated amp as well as the Onkyo tx sr 705 receiver. Hence I am looking for a solution which is flexible enough to maximise the output within the given parameter constraint. Both the Jamo and the Lyrita speakrs are roughly 1 feet from the rear wall. I was interested in the Behringer product since it offers lot of options. I am not intimidated by the complex nature of it as I am preapred to learn. Also I know that it might take away some of the musicality from the inherrent tube charcteristics but it is not that much of a problem to me.
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

Posted the pictures.
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

As others have suggested, going the DCX way is an overkill. You are right that it can be used in any setup (not necessarily EPs). You have to be really familiar with the speaker/crossover to be using the many features of the DCX. If you just want to use an equalizer, you are better of buying a standalone one. How much degradation of sound vs benefits of control at different frequencies you will experience - only you can tell after you try it out.

cheers

Hi Srdihar,
thanks for the reply. Can you please suggest some decent standalone equalizer that can be sourced easily.
Thanks,
Mahiruha.

 

[suri]

hi mahiruha,

i will now add my observation -

recently, i was at bangalore, and had the chance to listen to stevieboy's music system which included, amongst other things, lyrita's "harmony one" speakers driven by a lyrita SET amp (sources being a NAD cd player and a project turntable for vinyl) - it was a superb experience, the music was beautiful and complete - there was no boom.

i think, mahiruha, (since you seem to have the same system) your room is the cause for the "boomyness" you are experiencing, and perhaps it is time that you built a custom room for your music (as the cowboy would say "That room ain't big enough for the two of them"!)

regards

and this knowledge is common - "the room is 60% and the system is 40% when one considers the total quality of a music playback system"

 

[cmsajith]

Posted the pictures.
Thanks.

My suggestion:
- Move the screen a little bit to the right side on the wall to make it centre of the room (may look slightly near to the door, but not much. With the left side rack it will look centered.)
- Move the left speakers to the position of your subwoofer and the right speakers to the right wall (cables can be routed under the carpet)

- Try some bass traps at the corners and change the curtains to some thick ones
- Move the snooker board to some other convenient location (imp)

 

[mahiruha]

hi mahiruha,

try closing to port behind with some material, a ball of cloth for starters it ought to reduce bass response though the sound will change a little in character, a little. it ought to be an acceptable compromise.

the other thing you do is listen to music with your mouth wide open. this way the huge bass waves enter through your ears and exit through your mouth. a very good transmission line design. found this out when i was on an assignment in the old USSR during the cold war days. they also used an iron curtain to shield unwanted signal interference.

regards

Hi Steven,
thanks for the suggestion. I am normally smoking when I am listening to music. I have clearly seen how the bass energy interfares with the smoke. It is just need to be seen to be believed.
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

hi mahiruha,

i will now add my observation -

recently, i was at bangalore, and had the chance to listen to stevieboy's music system which included, amongst other things, lyrita's "harmony one" speakers driven by a lyrita SET amp (sources being a NAD cd player and a project turntable for vinyl) - it was a superb experience, the music was beautiful and complete - there was no boom.

i think, mahiruha, (since you seem to have the same system) your room is the cause for the "boomyness" you are experiencing, and perhaps it is time that you built a custom room for your music (as the cowboy would say "That room ain't big enough for the two of them"!)

regards

and this knowledge is common - "the room is 60% and the system is 40% when one considers the total quality of a music playback system"

Hi suri,
thanks for the suggestion.I know what you are saying but that is bit difficult to achieve at this point. What was the size of the room and speaker arrangement like in Steven's room? Did you get a taste of vinyls? what was your impression?
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

My suggestion:
- Move the screen a little bit to the right side on the wall to make it centre of the room (may look slightly near to the door, but not much. With the left side rack it will look centered.)
- Move the left speakers to the position of your subwoofer and the right speakers to the right wall (cables can be routed under the carpet)

- Try some bass traps at the corners and change the curtains to some thick ones
- Move the snooker board to some other convenient location (imp)

Hi Sajith,
actually I am also thinking in the line of doing something with the screen as it is slightly blocked by the Lyrita speaker.I am also thinking to move the a/v rack completely to the other side of the room so that I can move the right speaker just beside the screen. I can't move the speakers since they come in the way of game of snooker which I play about 8 hours every week. Let me try with the equalizer to see what is the outcome and go from there.
Thanks.

 

[cmsajith]

Hi Sajith,
actually I am also thinking in the line of doing something with the screen as it is slightly blocked by the Lyrita speaker.I am also thinking to move the a/v rack completely to the other side of the room so that I can move the right speaker just beside the screen. I can't move the speakers since they come in the way of game of snooker which I play about 8 hours every week. Let me try with the equalizer to see what is the outcome and go from there.
Thanks.

With the sound getting blocked by the snooker board, i am not sure how the sound would be and in what position are you listening to them (sitting or standing)? Also the room has full of reflections and that seems to be the major culprit for the boominess.

 

[suri]

Hi suri, What was the size of the room and speaker arrangement like in Steven's room? Did you get a taste of vinyls? what was your impression?

the room was, probably, 10 x 12 feet and the speakers were placed about three feet from the back wall and about 5-6 feet apart and the seating was about 6 feet from the front baffle plane of the speakers



he played vinyl for me - OUTSTANDING! - i heard jim morrison singing "this is the end" and tracks from OST of "Grease" - absolutely standout.

this is one lucky man who favors toobs over b..bs!!! - and is enjoying every minute of it

 

[Asit]

Hi all,

Pratim (member pratimbayal) and myself are the only ones among all of us, to my knowledge, who visisted mahiruha's place and auditioned his system.

I posted a detailed report here http://www.hifivision.com/amplifier...ng-appropiate-tube-amplifier-5.html#post85976 .

What I discovered (as apparent from my above post) was that it was not just bass boom, it was also overall clarity that the system seriously suffered from. My guess is that it was mostly contributed by the room, especially the huge table, the glossy walls etc.

The discussion in that thread continued for a few more posts. If you have time, please read also my next post in that thread http://www.hifivision.com/amplifier...ng-appropiate-tube-amplifier-6.html#post86121 .

Obviously the solution for mahiruha is to move his music system to another room, because not much rearrangement (in terms of physical movements of speakers etc) is possible in that room.

I am personally not in great favor of using an equaliser in this case, but it may identify some of the culprit frequencies.

I suppose if mahiruha has to keep all his stuff in that room, the best one can do is some damage control as the problems cannot be really cured. So experienced people may suggest only damage control solutions keeping in mind that this is a compromise and not an absolute solution of the problem.

Regards.

 

[mahiruha]

I think the answers are all in the posts above. The Behringer will not help, nor will a graphic equaliser or pretty much anything (I think) the designer of the equipment can really do.

Logic dictates that when the floor is predominantly occupied by a table and the function of the room is for snooker, speakers should be mounted up on a wall, or be installed in infinite baffle, or ceiling. That room is not a place to put floorstanders in.

How do you shoot from the corner near the door anyway, given the large floorstander blocking it? I must say the speakers look very handsome in the photograph, maybe I'll invite myself over to listen to them

HI cranky,
I get your point. Actually the only other speaker I have experienced in my life is this Jamo S 606. From my limited knowledge if I have to compare I would say it never sounded boomy and all the things were more distinct what it lacked is liveliness in the music reproduction. When I switched on this Lyrita speakers the music is more involving more lush but its boomy. Apart from other obvious things the main difference between the Jamo and Lyrita speakers are the Jamos are placed on spikes and the Lyrita is placed on a custom hollow rectangular parallelepiped supplied by Viren and the sole purpose of it is to make the speaker a bit higher so that the driver goes above the snooker table.Will it make a difference in the boomy part.

Well cueing from the corner near the door where the speaker is located is a problem.What I normally do is take the bottom but of the cue out and use the shorter stick to strike the ball. More or less the way jump cues are used in american pool.It is bit diffult to control the cue when hit in that manner but I live with it.

You are more than welcome to my place to listen to the system. Please drop me a pm. Its winter time and I am more or less hibernating in my den.
Thnaks.

 

[arj]

mahiruha, could you try one thing..this may sound crazy. could you walk across the corners behind the speakers and clap. identify thye place you get Maximum Echo.

Ditto about your seating position...as based on direct + reflecting waves yoy can get a boom on the listening position.

If you get an echo around the corners behind your speakers, then ou need to place
1. heavy absorbent like a bookcase or worst a cardboard box with boooks in the corner or even one of those small square pillows on the upper corner (Ceiling and 2 walls). try to see if the sound is less.

2. If you get a boom in your listening space you may need to move back and forth in the room till you get min sound.

3. Try to model your room in this website (its in german). choose any speaker and try to see which frequencies peak and what are in the trough ( you ca adjust the speakers and the listening position by clicking on it and using the up/down/L/R arrows on your keyboard). do see if the result matches with (2) above. you can play around a bit with position of speakers and listening position to get the best curve.

 

[mahiruha]

the room was, probably, 10 x 12 feet and the speakers were placed about three feet from the back wall and about 5-6 feet apart and the seating was about 6 feet from the front baffle plane of the speakers



he played vinyl for me - OUTSTANDING! - i heard jim morrison singing "this is the end" and tracks from OST of "Grease" - absolutely standout.

this is one lucky man who favors toobs over b..bs!!! - and is enjoying every minute of it

Hi Suri,
thanks for the info. Yes Vinyls are truly magical when played in that system. Given that set up I am really thinking about doing an experiment of playing the system in the Library in my house. I guess with books in each 4 walls I might manage to get a space of 12' by 12'.I have also read that books act as good absorbers. Lets see how it goes.I have to convince the ancient ( read my father) in the house for that experiment since the Library is his den.

Last but not the least a big thanks for uncovering Mr bond in his own den with some of the weapons around procured during the cold war.Did you do it with a spy cam or a normal cam did the job.
Thanks.