Merlin TSM BME

[Hari Iyer]

After days/weeks of speaker placement exercise with subjective and objective method, i could notice in my room that the room modes dominated in my room at exactly 72Hz giving a nasty boom. Also the width of my room being only 10 feet wide gave me very nasty first reflection issues which needed treatment.

As treatment was ruled out, i finally had to take the approach of diagonal placement of speakers in my room. The diagonal speaker placement had the following advantages though it looks a bit weird in the first place,

1. I could place the speakers very close to the back wall increasing bass response.
2. The speakers was very far from the side walls - so the first early reflections now has a delay of more than 6ms to 8ms - so to speak. This allows for very good localization of the sound stage with very smooth mid-highs and highs.
3. The low freq response is even and now the resonance / room mode disappears as the speakers are now having a non-parallel wall behind my ears.
4. The distance between both speakers are around 8 feet and it gives me a very wide sound stage and excellent image depth and resolution.
5. Above all, these results are now without any room treatment but just standard furniture in the room. I may be add a carpet on the floor during listening sessions to reduce floor reflections and possible comb filtering happening at the low end.

Imo, you too should try out the diagonal placement and discover if its suitable for you. The biggest advantage you get is with your right speaker where your speakers are very far off from the wall. This is one of the reasons probably you are not able to get the location of the instruments in the sound stage. The direct sound that you listen from your speakers usually gives you information about the sound, while the reflected sound gives you the location of the instruments in the sound stage. Since your speakers are very far off from the wall due to the width the location information is very weak due to less reflection. Also the left speakers are having heavy curtains further reducing the reflections and there by the localization.

IME, intelligent usage of the reflection is very important in addition to the direct sound. I would recommend you to not toe-in your speaker too much so that reflections increase in your case from the side walls.

My 2 paise.

 

[arj]

i have used the diagonal placement to great effect for almost 4 years when i had standmounts in a 11x13 room. you can get a really great soundstage and the bass response is really good although it was at the expense of thr Depth of the stage

 

[mpw]

for me this idea is a non starter.. but thanks for sharing..

 

[jmascreen]

Can you share a picture of this placement?

After days/weeks of speaker placement exercise with subjective and objective method, i could notice in my room that the room modes dominated in my room at exactly 72Hz giving a nasty boom. Also the width of my room being only 10 feet wide gave me very nasty first reflection issues which needed treatment.

As treatment was ruled out, i finally had to take the approach of diagonal placement of speakers in my room. The diagonal speaker placement had the following advantages though it looks a bit weird in the first place,

1. I could place the speakers very close to the back wall increasing bass response.
2. The speakers was very far from the side walls - so the first early reflections now has a delay of more than 6ms to 8ms - so to speak. This allows for very good localization of the sound stage with very smooth mid-highs and highs.
3. The low freq response is even and now the resonance / room mode disappears as the speakers are now having a non-parallel wall behind my ears.
4. The distance between both speakers are around 8 feet and it gives me a very wide sound stage and excellent image depth and resolution.
5. Above all, these results are now without any room treatment but just standard furniture in the room. I may be add a carpet on the floor during listening sessions to reduce floor reflections and possible comb filtering happening at the low end.

Imo, you too should try out the diagonal placement and discover if its suitable for you. The biggest advantage you get is with your right speaker where your speakers are very far off from the wall. This is one of the reasons probably you are not able to get the location of the instruments in the sound stage. The direct sound that you listen from your speakers usually gives you information about the sound, while the reflected sound gives you the location of the instruments in the sound stage. Since your speakers are very far off from the wall due to the width the location information is very weak due to less reflection. Also the left speakers are having heavy curtains further reducing the reflections and there by the localization.

IME, intelligent usage of the reflection is very important in addition to the direct sound. I would recommend you to not toe-in your speaker too much so that reflections increase in your case from the side walls.

My 2 paise.

 

[mpw]

these are some pics of the living room ( shared space )

Am looking for some inputs on :-

a. the effect of the wall corner on the left speaker side..

b. effect of a good carpet ( synthetic material ?? ) The bigger carpets cost a lotta money

c. The problem with a big carpet for me it that i will have to wind it up after the music session. Folks at home are not friendly to carpets.

c. The canvas painting ..... maybe needs to shift about 6 inches lower ??

Possibly i need to see the 1st reflection points on the rear wall and the floor as well. As of now i put up the painting where i thought it looks good.

regards

 

[prem]

mpw, you are fortunate to have such a big room. It's half the battle won. I would suggest start with a carpet. Stick to one made of natural fibre. Jute, cotton, wool or silk. Post that you may want to look at a nice artificial ficus plant at your left hand corner.

 

[arj]

What's the distance between the rear wall and the speaker front ? And also the distance between speakers and listening spot ?Beautiful space and the speaker will sing but you may lose some "grunt" due to the size unless you put the seating spot at 9 feet max


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[Soundstage]

That's a very decent sized living room you have!

I feel it cries out for a carpet, but if that is a no-no, a couple of dhurries/small rugs placed at the reflection points on the floor should help. They can be folded up and removed after the listening session is over.

Cheers

 

[mpw]

What's the distance between the rear wall and the speaker front ? And also the distance between speakers and listening spot ?Beautiful space and the speaker will sing but you may lose some "grunt" due to the size unless you put the seating spot at 9 feet max


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arj

distance from the floor to the woofer center = 32 inches
distance from speaker front baffle to rear wall = 35 inches ( approx 3 ft )
distance between speakers = 6 ft 8 inch
distance of left speaker from the side curtain = 35 inches
distance of right speaker from right side wall = open space


distance from floor to ceiling = 106 inches
room length = 20 ft 7 inch

listening position ( on the sofa ) = approx 15 ft but many times i walk around

speaker stands = 24 .5 inch tall

another favorite spot is about 10 ft from the speakers but thats quite rare and i use an easy chair.

These days with the swing back in place i am more inclined to sit on the swing

 

[mpw]

That's a very decent sized living room you have!

I feel it cries out for a carpet, but if that is a no-no, a couple of dhurries/small rugs placed at the reflection points on the floor should help. They can be folded up and removed after the listening session is over.

Cheers

and the wall behind the speaker and the corner triangle on the side of the left speaker ?

 

[mpw]

What's the distance between the rear wall and the speaker front ? And also the distance between speakers and listening spot ?Beautiful space and the speaker will sing but you may lose some "grunt" due to the size unless you put the seating spot at 9 feet max


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arj

The Naim Nait 5i-2 works very well at less than 45% on the volume dial but there are tracks where i think this little amp is stretched.

I am wondering if it is the room and weather simple stuff can make the sound better.

Its so easy to blame the setup whilst the ghost in the room lurks around.

On many tracks though the whole setup plays nice and i wonder how the sound would be like after looking at the room in a very basic manner.

 

[jls001]

and the wall behind the speaker and the corner triangle on the side of the left speaker ?

Are you facing bass issues with current placement?

 

[mpw]

Are you facing bass issues with current placement?

come over jls

No - i dont think so but thats where another pair of ears helps.

I put up pics and raised all the points to get inputs on doing the small basic and common things like the carpets and also the rear wall.

Sometimes the mind thinks about the tricorner but.... i really have no data based means to validate.

Sometimes i think the 50W of the Naim is small but it plays so nicely for me - at other times i think i am not giving the Merlins enough juice ( sometimes in terms of loudness and sometimes in terms of bandwidth )

confusing no

maybe the simple way is to :cheers:

but we are all kaapi guys at home

 

[Soundstage]

and the wall behind the speaker and the corner triangle on the side of the left speaker ?

A leafy plant in the left corner will only do good, and lowering the canvas painting may help.

But, Sir, if you have placed the speakers under 7 feet apart and listen mostly from 15 feet away, in my humble opinion, you may not be able to get the most of what your speakers can deliver in terms of imaging and soundstaging. I would look at doing all my critical listening from no more that 8.5 to 9 feet away. Moreover, I feel that bass -would- be somewhat lean in such a large room and at such a long distance.

Any particular reason why you chose not to listen from a closer distance?

 

[arj]

I know about aesthetics, but for those serious late night evaluations I would suggest pulling out the speakers at lest 4-5 feet in front and if possible at least 3 feet away from the wall and sit 8-9 feet away. You could evaluate the sound in this position . At the current position you will not be able to get a True evaluation as the walls interfere.

But of course being a family room for regular listening you put it back to the current position secure in the knowledge that it plays well in the right position [emoji41]

Power wise you will be ok just that there is only so much a 5 inch driver can do to energize such a large room especially at low volumes

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[mpw]

A leafy plant in the left corner will only do good, and lowering the canvas painting may help.

But, Sir, if you have placed the speakers under 7 feet apart and listen mostly from 15 feet away, in my humble opinion, you may not be able to get the most of what your speakers can deliver in terms of imaging and soundstaging. I would look at doing all my critical listening from no more that 8.5 to 9 feet away. Moreover, I feel that bass -would- be somewhat lean in such a large room and at such a long distance.

Any particular reason why you chose not to listen from a closer distance?

Thank you.

I mentioned 15 ft as that is the maximum listening distance.. sometimes i sit on the swing as well - i mentioned elsewhere.

Critical listening - i am beginning to not find it so nice and cramped up and sitting on a chair and "evaluating" music... i used to be serious many moons ago but of same something has disappeared and i just want to enjoy music, walk around a bit..

I find myself eating junk when i sit for "evaluating" music

I am sorry for being rather blunt about myself but thats what it is..these days.

 

[mpw]

I know about aesthetics, but for those serious late night evaluations I would suggest pulling out the speakers at lest 4-5 feet in front and if possible at least 3 feet away from the wall and sit 8-9 feet away. You could evaluate the sound in this position . At the current position you will not be able to get a True evaluation as the walls interfere.

But of course being a family room for regular listening you put it back to the current position secure in the knowledge that it plays well in the right position [emoji41]

Power wise you will be ok just that there is only so much a 5 inch driver can do to energize such a large room especially at low volumes

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arj

the reply to FM soundstage should provide answers

maybe i need to be banished from the audiophile community :lol:

The Merlin TSM has a 6.5 inch midbass - and you owned one previously. So i have nothing more to add.

Its not about the power of the Naim nait 5i - i wonder if the Merlins can be fed with even more information ( maybe pre amp side ??? ) and weather maybe another 25W - 50 W will give a better headroom.

regards

 

[prem]

Logically anther 25 to 50 watts will add more headroom. It's worth exploring.

 

[Soundstage]

Thank you.

I mentioned 15 ft as that is the maximum listening distance.. sometimes i sit on the swing as well - i mentioned elsewhere.

Critical listening - i am beginning to not find it so nice and cramped up and sitting on a chair and "evaluating" music... i used to be serious many moons ago but of same something has disappeared and i just want to enjoy music, walk around a bit..

I find myself eating junk when i sit for "evaluating" music

I am sorry for being rather blunt about myself but thats what it is..these days.

No sorries needed.... I am sure there is no one fixed way of listening to music!

If walking around while listening to music enhances the pleasure for you, so be it!

I prefer sitting down in the sweet spot and getting immersed in the music....I'm just enjoying it the way it is made and not evaluating it in any way.

All the best!

 

[arj]

arj



the reply to FM soundstage should provide answers



maybe i need to be banished from the audiophile community :lol:



The Merlin TSM has a 6.5 inch midbass - and you owned one previously. So i have nothing more to add.



Its not about the power of the Naim nait 5i - i wonder if the Merlins can be fed with even more information ( maybe pre amp side ??? ) and weather maybe another 25W - 50 W will give a better headroom.



regards

I missed the 6. While typing ! But meant that you have a Pretty large room and it's not about the power but air movement by cone which will make a difference ..so more power not really needed

But choice is of course your own and if you have made up your mind to be happy about how you already have set up then all power to you !

Walking about and listening is perfectly fine and that way you really don't have to worry about getting too particular about the setup /orientation /distance


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