ajay124
Well-Known Member
Pehaps a surge protector which accepts US male plugs?
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MUSICAL FIDELITY M6i
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Pehaps a surge protector which accepts US male plugs?
Rikhav, I meant Crabtree sockets that are of the international variety, that is, accepting plugs of many countries. I am not sure where they are made (probably, India, as you said) and they are marketed by Havell's India.
Regards.
Rikhav,
Asit has answered. Crabtree and even some anchor have developed this socket that accepts various plugs (UK,US, Indian, Euro 2 pin ). These are Indian Made sockets built to accomodate a variety of plugs for the convenience of the user.
Asit I have got Wattgate UK sockets as I believe the UK system is the safest. Its not that I have done massive research on this rather that seems to be the general opinion world over. In fact in the 50s the US wanted to convert to this system & to 230V but faced lots of resistance (naturally) from electrical cos and ordinary citizens.
Now a UK 3 pin socket ONLY accepts a UK plug. For the rest of the house I have Northwest.
Ajay,
I dont like to use a Surge protector, extension box et cetc if I DONT NEED TO. Most ones u see are bull and they CANT protect u in the unfortunate event of a power surge. Your components will fry in any case.
What u could buy is a good grade power strip and there are many available but they cost in excess of Rs 10K.
Rgds
For any such power related requirements (strip, protectors, conditioners), I would suggest you guys contact Mr.Murthy in Bangalore. He would do a much better job at significantly lower prices and obviously a fully customized one.
I have already handed over a pair of Oyaide R1 wall receptacle to him to make me a power strip out of it. A thorough gentleman and a humble audiophile is what he is.
I have already handed over a pair of Oyaide R1 wall receptacle to him to make me a power strip out of it. A thorough gentleman and a humble audiophile is what he is.
Hi Dinyaar
We carry only the Furutech Gold connectors, I would be happy to sell you just a female IEC if you like for half the price of the set.
On the first part of your question - The right way to do this entire power cord wiring starting at the wall (assuming your internal wall wiring is done right) is to first use a female wall socket of good quality. Then people use a filter/conditioner or a good US type extension box into which the regular power cords (US type) can be plugged in. One needs to take care that the phase is inverted in the US type filters (or done at the wall socket) as they are wired different from ours. Using convertor plugs IMO defeats the true purpose as is not as effective. Based on our customers experience, the quality of the connection (both from surface area, quality of conductivity, etc) are important, the geometry, construction, sheilding, etc of the cable come later. In certain environments/setups some factors matter and in some they dont. You can determine this by trial and error, there is no other way
cheers
Thanks Shridhar
Will revert back to u for the purchase if my connectors (that a friend is getting) dont arrive !!!! Then I will need 2 Furutech Female IEC sockets. Rates are fine by me.
Point I was making too is similar. Our wiring is done in a way that the phase is one the right and the neutral is on the left IF U FACE THE WALL OUTLETS. Now I have seen loads of pre assembled US power cables with the reverse . The Mark levinson 333(has a captive lead) that a friend bought pre owned also was similar and the phase had to be reversed in the plug. So in my opinion a CONVERSION PLUG IS NOT THE RIGHT OPTION AT ALL.
Yes one can reverse the phase in the conditioner or at the walls socket as u mention and that seems the best way out.
Rgds
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Shridhar,
While I totally agree with you that good connectors have a significant impact on the final sound and it should never be taken casually but after some research on some really top level connectors from Furutech and Oyaide I have come to understand that wires have a lot more effect on the sound especially after a certain stage. To quote an example, some really good power cords like the Transparent Reference, Cardas Golden Reference, ESP Essence Reference (I can name many more) all use entry level Wattgates or its likes but the sound quality is far superior to many/most DIY cords with high end Furutechs and Oyaide connectors. I suppose cable geometry plays a major role in keeping phase, timing, noise reduction, overall bandwidth intact. These things definitely needs very careful cable construction which would include many factors and not many DIY available cables have the level construction so from there on connectors cannot do much about the flaws inherent in the cable but can at least keep things honest from their side.
I would still recommend, if one is using a cheaper variety of power cord, he should definitely try to use a top quality plug as that makes a significant difference to the final sound. It is very audible and in the world of hifi is a rather cheaper tweak.
While I totally agree with you that good connectors have a significant impact on the final sound and it should never be taken casually but after some research on some really top level connectors from Furutech and Oyaide I have come to understand that wires have a lot more effect on the sound especially after a certain stage. To quote an example, some really good power cords like the Transparent Reference, Cardas Golden Reference, ESP Essence Reference (I can name many more) all use entry level Wattgates or its likes but the sound quality is far superior to many/most DIY cords with high end Furutechs and Oyaide connectors. I suppose cable geometry plays a major role in keeping phase, timing, noise reduction, overall bandwidth intact. These things definitely needs very careful cable construction which would include many factors and not many DIY available cables have the level construction so from there on connectors cannot do much about the flaws inherent in the cable but can at least keep things honest from their side.
I would still recommend, if one is using a cheaper variety of power cord, he should definitely try to use a top quality plug as that makes a significant difference to the final sound. It is very audible and in the world of hifi is a rather cheaper tweak.
dinyaar,
if you go for factory terminated US you have to reverse the live wire with neutral in the wall socket. If you go for furutech and terminate it with cable of your choice you just have to reverse live and neutral at any one end of the cable. I have changed all my cable connectors to Furutech and i am very happy with the result.
Regards
I tried to do a brief search on these cables to see what connectors they use, if you have some links offhand, can you post them? The link I came across says that the Cardas GR uses the mid level wattgate and not the entry level. pls also keep in mind profit margins in the cable industry - buying expensive connectors from third parties will take the price significantly up
cheers
cheers
I have the ESP Reference and a friend has the Transparent and another has an Audience power cord, will show you some time.
I understand that these big companies have to keep profit margins high hence they might not want to use the top level connectors (assuming they really wanted to cut corners there)....my contention is simple, cable in itself matters a lot. They are in fact far more serious component in a power cord than the connectors, after a certain stage. These high end cords I have referred are good examples of what cable geometry can do to the sound. For simpler DIY purposes, of course one can only tweak with connectors and it is worth it.
I understand that these big companies have to keep profit margins high hence they might not want to use the top level connectors (assuming they really wanted to cut corners there)....my contention is simple, cable in itself matters a lot. They are in fact far more serious component in a power cord than the connectors, after a certain stage. These high end cords I have referred are good examples of what cable geometry can do to the sound. For simpler DIY purposes, of course one can only tweak with connectors and it is worth it.
Dinyaar, do you have an opinion on the Accuphase CD players ?
I see a lot of them on Agon and they command good prices also, wonder how they sound. The Accuphase house sound is creamy rich, but I guess with the source one has to be more transparent and neutral, so where does accuphase fall in the balance ?
I see a lot of them on Agon and they command good prices also, wonder how they sound. The Accuphase house sound is creamy rich, but I guess with the source one has to be more transparent and neutral, so where does accuphase fall in the balance ?
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Accuphase DP 400/Ayon CD1/Bryston BCD 1/MF M6 CD players.....
Are these CDP's worth their stratospheric price tags?
Are they REALLY all that much better than an entry level Arcam/Rega/Naim/Cyrus CDP?
Even if they are better are they good value for money?
In my opinion the FIRST big chunk of money should go for a carefully researched and executed purchase of SPEAKERS.The speakers will finally determine the overall sound of your set up.Get stuck with the wrong pair of speakers and nothing will work.Not the Accuphase nor the Ayon,Bryston,Musical Fidelity.
With the world moving on to Flac and other lossless files and many manufacturers phasing out CDP'S should one even consider a CDP as a neccessary part of a music system or use that money on better quality speakers/amps/cables?
Are these CDP's worth their stratospheric price tags?
Are they REALLY all that much better than an entry level Arcam/Rega/Naim/Cyrus CDP?
Even if they are better are they good value for money?
In my opinion the FIRST big chunk of money should go for a carefully researched and executed purchase of SPEAKERS.The speakers will finally determine the overall sound of your set up.Get stuck with the wrong pair of speakers and nothing will work.Not the Accuphase nor the Ayon,Bryston,Musical Fidelity.
With the world moving on to Flac and other lossless files and many manufacturers phasing out CDP'S should one even consider a CDP as a neccessary part of a music system or use that money on better quality speakers/amps/cables?
Ajay, unfortunately as you buy better speakers, it will automatically "DEMAND" better source. You cannot stop it. As you go higher end, the weakest link will be more and more audible and believe me you would either want to downgrade your system so that you dont hear those weakenesses or upgrade your weak link. Balancing act becomes very very important there.
Just in case I am not very clear, I would give an illustration, assuming that you have a fairly decent amp, a 50k source would rarely do justice to a 200k speaker, so if you have another 100k to spend on audio, if you try spending it on speakers again, you have a speaker worth 300k and let me promise you, you are going to have a hard time now listening to music since it will reveal all the flaws in a rather unforgiving manner. So you are better off upgrading your CDP and you would reach a new level of sonic refinement and enjoyment. So your final configuration would be a speaker - 200k, CDP - 150k.
As far as flac is concerned, I am yet to hear a computer sounding as good as a high quality CDP. It will take time buddy. By the time it is a proven concept you would have lost 5 valuable years of music listening. 5 is an optimistic number BTW.
Just in case I am not very clear, I would give an illustration, assuming that you have a fairly decent amp, a 50k source would rarely do justice to a 200k speaker, so if you have another 100k to spend on audio, if you try spending it on speakers again, you have a speaker worth 300k and let me promise you, you are going to have a hard time now listening to music since it will reveal all the flaws in a rather unforgiving manner. So you are better off upgrading your CDP and you would reach a new level of sonic refinement and enjoyment. So your final configuration would be a speaker - 200k, CDP - 150k.
As far as flac is concerned, I am yet to hear a computer sounding as good as a high quality CDP. It will take time buddy. By the time it is a proven concept you would have lost 5 valuable years of music listening. 5 is an optimistic number BTW.
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@Ajay: Dr. Bass is absolutely spot on on this... and i'd like to add to that... A good source is AS IMPORTANT a component as any in the chain... In fact it may even be the most important.... because if the source is not right, all other components in the chain will be rendered useless...
So i'd say, that the CDP or Turntable should be given as much of imprtance and budget as the amp / speakers.
And yes, the Accuphase CDP's are really worth it.... Though Ayon is very VFM and great as well!
ajay124
Well-Known Member
I think a valid conclusion would only be possible if all the cdp's hi/mid range that I mentioned could be auditioned with the same setup.Until I am able to do that I would still hold on to the belief that if one finds the right speakers then half the battle is won.
I agree with you completely on this. Speakers are #1 in the chain. I have already experimented with sources CD player vs HD based music - essentially comparing similar priced player rega apollo to ipod (wav files)+wadia170i+MFxdacv8 and could not tell the difference. Now I am upgrading to Ayon cd1s - hopefully I will be able to discern the difference. I have been to various shows in the recent past and sources of most demos - HD based players. I do not have the experience of most of the senior members here so I may be completely wrong but it is just my humble opinion.
Cheers
Sid
Hi Dr
Yes I have an opinion on accuphase Cdps. Have heard the older Accu cdps and had liked them but frankly at the time I myself had such basic gear that anything seemed better sounding and better built.
I have heard the DP 400/DP 500 in my home alongwith my gear and they are superb cdps. Yes they are rich sounding. The music seemed to flow and the notes seemed to fully bloom. BUT IN MY ROOM accu cdp + accu amp + avalon speakers seemed toooo full a sound and I thought like exactly like you!!! Thought I should try a more accurate source, one that does minimal.
Plus the fact that none of these cdps come cheap. Tried an Esoteric XO 5 and to my ears that was more neutral but did not have that 'sweetness of tone' that the DP 500 had so passed on that one too.
I am still sticking to a Yamaha CDS 2000 that replaced an arcam CD 192 and though I know its the weak link it seems to do fine for me at the moment. Am looking for a cdp for sure but I am a bit stumped. I dont know if an Ayon cdp will work for me plus the fact that its not available in bbay and there is no way I can buy a cdp blind.
Any suggestions Dr? Budget about USD 5K
Rgds
No doubt that speakers are the most important part of the chain and it should be the first one to be bought/shortlisted IMO also. All I was trying to highlight is, as you go higher end into the speakers, it will automatically call for high quality CD players and that thing is almost certain. So, instead of the speakers cribbing and you solving for their crib (mostly by overshooting your budget), typically experienced audiophiles play this whole game as one.
That is also the reason some people spend more on their source sometimes.
I do not want to get into the ratio distribution as there is no fixed ratio, but as I see, upgradation of source is like reaching a plateau. You can be on that plateau till your other equipments reach a certain stage but after that you have to upgrade to the next level, another plateau. Typically the higher you go, the larger is the surface area on that plateau, so the flexibility to pair it up with other high quality equipments increases. You will know when it is time to move on.
So, if you really want to compare different levels of sources, make sure that the equipment chain should be at the same or higher level than most expensive CDP in your comparison.
Ajay I know exactly where u are coming from as I thought like u and to a small extent I still do as I still have a cdp that is 'so obviously' the weakest link. It s a poor yamaha CDS 2000 SACD.
Is the accuphase or the other mentioned worth it? Dont know if its worth it but it definately sounds better than the other brands like cyrus,arcam, rega u mention. I had an arcam before that a cyrus and I think the yamaha is more musical overall and the accuphase/esoteric (my shortlisted cdps) are better than the yamaha but at 4 X the price.
I also agree the world is moving in a different direction. When a friend learnt that I was demoing a few expensive cd players he called me and wished me well and told me ' U are looking at some superb steam engines '!!!!
Naturally u buy the best speaker u can buy but frankly thats also a bit pointless if the amplification/ source does not match up.
1) Great speaker - great amp - moderate source = Bearable.
2) Great speaker - moderate amp - great source = Unbearable IMO
This is only my personal opinion and hence at the moment I am closer to option 1.
Rgds
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