My earthing is screwed

zero7

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
87
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
What if the neutral is poor? I'm not an electrical engineer and am genuinely looking for some light on this. @zero7, Do you have something to talk about this?
As they have drawn a new neutral wire and tested it yesterday, we need to eliminate that possibility now.

@Love4sound ,is it possible that there is a faulty UPS somewhere in the building. If it's leaking to ground, that might be causing the high voltage. You can turn of the mains for the entire building for few minutes and check the voltage between ground and neutral.
 

zero7

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
87
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
I'm asking (not suggesting) - "What will happen if you short neutral and earth at the distribution panel itself"?
This has been a perpetual question to me. My electrician said, your meter will run even when you are not using the power anywhere, based on his experience. But logically it does not make sense to me.

Neutral wire is earthed at the distribution transformer end anyways. In Kerala, neutral wire is connected to bare metal support at each pole. Though the pole is concrete and not a good earthing, during rains and early morning due to dew, it will act as earthing. May be an electrical engineer or the AE from EB will have an answer.
 

MIOM

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2022
Messages
19
Points
13
Location
United States
@zero7,

This has got nothing to do with your issue or thread, but your username caught my attention, so I have to ask... are you in anyway related to the music group Zero 7? They're actually one of my favorite artists :)
 

Kannan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
1,940
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Well essentially as earth is just a localised alternate path to discharge the leak current in case of fault or for tripping (Assuming the equipment in use is grounded to its body, i.e a proper 3-wire device), by shorting earth and neutral at the distribution panel, we are essentially removing the earth wire from the network, meaning nullifying the safety feature.

The problems in @Love4sound case seems to be multifarious. There is apparent leakage somewhere between phase and neutral.
One bizarre scenario I can think of is a cut in the neutral wire in the Electricity Board supply chain which can lead to both over voltage or under voltage problem depending on the load in the network of the buildings sharing the supply from the feeder network.

This can cause leakage in the localised earth of each building depending on the load. Ideally due to the wire resistance, the potential between earth and neutral should be max 1 to 3 volts for homes and I guess up to 6 volts for industries.

Troubleshooting high voltage between neutral and earth can be quite challenging if the issues are not local and needs to be backtracked to the feeder network as the original source of the neutral is from there.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,150
Points
113
Location
Chennai
As they have drawn a new neutral wire and tested it yesterday, we need to eliminate that possibility now.

@Love4sound ,is it possible that there is a faulty UPS somewhere in the building. If it's leaking to ground, that might be causing the high voltage. You can turn of the mains for the entire building for few minutes and check the voltage between ground and neutral.
There is no ups in the building. All tests where performed by turning off the mains for the entire building. We infact removed the fuse and disconnected the earthing wires for the building. So the circuit was open and test was between direct ground and EB neutral line.
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,150
Points
113
Location
Chennai
If this too showed 30/40 volts, it means that nuetral wire from EB side is leaking power as the earth is now acting.as nuetral in this test
Yeah but EB is saying if it was the case other flats also should have the same issue. They are saying they checked other flats and it was between 1-3V. One observation which is not normal. L-N V is 240-250 but L-E V is 210-220
 

Kannan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
1,940
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Yeah but EB is saying if it was the case other flats also should have the same issue. They are saying they checked other flats and it was between 1-3V. One observation which is not normal. L-N V is 240-250 but L-E V is 210-220
That is obvious. I will explain with a small pic

IMG_20220114_111143.jpg
 
Last edited:

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,150
Points
113
Location
Chennai
That is obvious. I will explain with a small pic
I am thinking it must be the N line at fault. May be in other flats they didn’t check properly or due to the error in readings with their multimeter. Cause they only use bare wire and in tight spots it won’t be enough for proper contact. In my flats we installed a terminal for neutral so it was easy to check and other apartments they had to use the bare wire from multimeter to connect with the meter which was in a tight spot and not easy to access. A proper probe which is sharp will have be needed for tight spots for proper contact. I used my speaker brackets as ground and see the N-E reading. It’s 27-30V
 

Attachments

  • 2756CE3D-C0B3-4529-92B1-274EF1EAB174.jpeg
    2756CE3D-C0B3-4529-92B1-274EF1EAB174.jpeg
    199.8 KB · Views: 20
Last edited:

mbhangui

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
651
Points
63
Location
Pune
I am thinking it must be the N line at fault. May be in other flats they didn’t check properly or due to the error in readings with their multimeter. Cause they only use bare wire and in tight spots it won’t be enough for proper contact. In my flats we installed a terminal for neutral so it was easy to check and other apartments they had to use the bare wire from multimeter to connect with the meter which was in a tight spot and not easy to access. A proper probe which is sharp will have be needed for tight spots for proper contact. I used my speaker brackets as ground and see the N-E reading. It’s 27-30V
The speaker bracket is not proper earth. Is it connected electrically, physically to an earth point? From the picture it looks like it is just fixed to the wall. The wall is not a good conductor.

What is the voltage between Neutral and the earth pin in any 3pin socket in your house? If it is few volts, you should be fine.
 

mbhangui

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
651
Points
63
Location
Pune
ok in another socket it’s the opposite. L-N is 240V and L-E is 260-265V
Somewhere in your house neutral and earth has got interchanged. The voltage between phase and neutral should always be the highest. Wherever you are getting L-E 260-265 volts, the earth is actually neutral.

Is it possibe to trace the above specific earth wire and see where it originates?
 

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,150
Points
113
Location
Chennai
The speaker bracket is not proper earth. Is it connected electrically, physically to an earth point? From the picture it looks like it is just fixed to the wall. The wall is not a good conductor.

What is the voltage between Neutral and the earth pin in any 3pin socket in your house? If it is few volts, you should be fine.
Yeah just fixed to the wall. In sockets It’s fluctuating between 6-40V. Most of the time it’s between 15-40V
Somewhere in your house neutral and earth has got interchanged. The voltage between phase and neutral should always be the highest. Wherever you are getting L-E 260-265 volts, the earth is actually neutral.

Is it possibe to trace the above specific earth wire and see where it originates?
Yeah one socket I found to have phase and N reversed. Have to get it checked
 
Last edited:

Love4sound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
4,150
Points
113
Location
Chennai
As I have mentioned in the previous post the EB might have wrongly diagnosed and it turned out it did. Today with the help of another electrician we inspected all the apartments and all had high N-E voltage. By all apartments I mean different buildings which included the flats EB checked and ruled out. I should have given my multimeter to EB engineer to check. The wires they used in the multimeter where bare open and had no probes so without proper connection by default all multimeter will fluctuate between 0-3V which they would have mistaken to be the N-E V. Damit had 5 different electrician visits, 2 visits by EB line man and 1 visit by EB line engineer and another visit by a EB senior line man and I am back to square one lol
 

zero7

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
87
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
As I have mentioned in the previous post the EB might have wrongly diagnosed and it turned out it did. Today with the help of another electrician we inspected all the apartments and all had high N-E voltage. By all apartments I mean different buildings which included the flats EB checked and ruled out. I should have given my multimeter to EB engineer to check. The wires they used in the multimeter where bare open and had no probes so without proper connection by default all multimeter will fluctuate between 0-3V which they would have mistaken to be the N-E V. Damit had 5 different electrician visits, 2 visits by EB line man and 1 visit by EB line engineer and another visit by a EB senior line man and I am back to square one lol
Again, looks like problem at EB end. Now it's making sense why they said only two houses has issues. In fact, all have. It's unfortunate that no one uses proper tools and "sub kuch chalta hain" attitude. I have seen electricians using bare hands to check if the wire is lve instead of testers.
 

zero7

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
87
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
@zero7,

This has got nothing to do with your issue or thread, but your username caught my attention, so I have to ask... are you in anyway related to the music group Zero 7? They're actually one of my favorite artists :)
Not at all. First time I heard about that music group. Will listen and check out their music.
Actually SatelliteGuys.us was the first forum where I started my hobby journey. Then I did not have any knowledge about the satellite TV and I was a zero. So started with user ID as Zero. When that's not available tried Zero07 or Zero7 etc. But not a James Bond fanatic. Lol.
 
Get the Paradoxically Awesome Bookshelf Speaker at a limited time offer price!
Top