Narrow vs wide dispersion speakers, sweet spot, imaging and such

[Analogous]

My curiosity leads me to try a variety of positions with the speakers that pass through my room. Often the changes are dramatic (Better or worse)

Over time I gradually became aware of the differences between speakers in terms of dispersion and sweet spot and how these seem to affect the imaging and soundstage.

Exploring this further I came across this:

Looking for insights, experiences on the subject.

 

[fLUX]

What speakers are those @Analogous ?

 

[prem]

Analogous are the O Rings under the steel plate? The TV in that position will not allow you to get the correct soundstage which is there in the recording. The reflections from the TV will not allow proper imaging and staging.

Ideally there should be nothing behind the speakers. Ideally, equipment should be placed at a very low level, very close to the ground.

 

[AP@1992]

Analogous are the O Rings under the steel plate? The TV in that position will not allow you to get the correct soundstage which is there in the recording. The reflections from the TV will not allow proper imaging and staging.

Ideally there should be nothing behind the speakers. Ideally, equipment should be placed at a very low level, very close to the ground.

Slightly deviating from the topic, on the aspect of wide dispersion of sound, I have found that altering the phase of speakers results in the widest dispersion of sound.

Earlier it was kind of a taboo, but subject to careful engineering, a inverted phase in some application has now becoming desirable.

Even in our current system, and depending on our gears, I have found that the out of phases connection of one of the speakers produced the widest sound stage. There is loss of base (to some degree and it's very amp/speaker specific of now much you will loose) and loss of some micro details. However the tone becomes lil denser and sound more diffused (read unfocused) but effect on sound stage is huge. If you are into simple music, this can definitely be something we can try and see.

 

[prem]

The purpose of a system is to reproduce the soundstage captured in the recording. Soundstage is purely a function of the recoding and mastering. One has no idea how an album was recorded and mastered. While you may get an artificial big soundstage, tone and timbre is completely lost in an out of phase connection. Not to mention the bass is completely off. And timing goes wrong. The cohesiveness of music is lost. If you like to hear it that way, I have nothing to say. If it’s originally recorded out of phase, we are talking of a different thing. The mastering engineer would have applied some compensation for it.

 

[Analogous]

What speakers are those @Analogous ?

Von Schweikert Unifield 2

 

[Analogous]

Analogous are the O Rings under the steel plate? The TV in that position will not allow you to get the correct soundstage which is there in the recording. The reflections from the TV will not allow proper imaging and staging.

Ideally there should be nothing behind the speakers. Ideally, equipment should be placed at a very low level, very close to the ground.

I do have 4 O rings as you suggested under the steel plate. In my new space I have been working on different positions. I do cover the TV (@3 feet behind the speakers with a towel sometimes).
There is also a queen sized (double) mattress behind the curtains

 

[Analogous]

Slightly deviating from the topic, on the aspect of wide dispersion of sound, I have found that altering the phase of speakers results in the widest dispersion of sound.

Earlier it was kind of a taboo, but subject to careful engineering, a inverted phase in some application has now becoming desirable.

Even in our current system, and depending on our gears, I have found that the out of phases connection of one of the speakers produced the widest sound stage. There is loss of base (to some degree and it's very amp/speaker specific of now much you will loose) and loss of some micro details. However the tone becomes lil denser and sound more diffused (read unfocused) but effect on sound stage is huge. If you are into simple music, this can definitely be something we can try and see.

Thanks. Will try this and see if there is any change

 

[prem]

Add 1 o ring in the centre too. Also try some hard wood coasters between the steel plate and the amp feet. The harder the wood, the better. Wood thickness not more than 4-5 mm. Typically a 4 sq cm wood coaster. Idea is to break up the resonances of the steel plate, if any. Thicker than 4-5 mm will introduce a wood resonance which you don’t want.

 

[Analogous]

The purpose of a system is to reproduce the soundstage captured in the recording. Soundstage is purely a function of the recoding and mastering. One has no idea how an album was recorded and mastered. While you may get an artificial big soundstage, tone and timbre is completely lost in an out of phase connection. Not to mention the bass is completely off. And timing goes wrong. The cohesiveness of music is lost. If you like to hear it that way, I have nothing to say.

The discussion (video) does emphasise that the soundstage is mostly dependent on the recording.
The combo with the VSA is astonishing. Have been listening to this for a couple of weeks now trying to make sense of how coherent it sounds with such precise imaging. Oh, the the bass is … delicious (?)
I think I need a dose of the Zu to regain some semblance of balance

 

[Analogous]

Add 1 o ring in the centre too. Also try some hard wood coasters between the steel plate and the amp feet. The harder the wood, the better. Wood thickness not more than 4-5 mm. Typically a 4 sq cm wood coaster. Idea is to break up the resonances of the steel plate, if any. Thicker than 4-5 mm will introduce a wood resonance which you don’t want.

I do have wood coasters that my wife will not miss. But lifting that steel slab is beyond my capabilities. Soon…
This thread has been derailed by…me I should have posted the picture in the Showcase…thread separately.

 

[prem]

It goes between the amp feet and the steel plate. Not under the steel plate.

 

[AP@1992]

The purpose of a system is to reproduce the soundstage captured in the recording. Soundstage is purely a function of the recoding and mastering. One has no idea how an album was recorded and mastered. While you may get an artificial big soundstage, tone and timbre is completely lost in an out of phase connection. Not to mention the bass is completely off. And timing goes wrong. The cohesiveness of music is lost. If you like to hear it that way, I have nothing to say. If it’s originally recorded out of phase, we are talking of a different thing. The mastering engineer would have applied some compensation for it.

I completely agree with you.

Hence my post was marred with caveats.

One must try and see, what works. Human brain is very funny and highly subjective. Precision vs Diffusion is the growing battle in the realm of audio engineering since decades. Also in my limited experience, degree of loss of bass and micro details are very peculiar to the set up. I won't generalise it. But on a objective assessment, only lovers of simple music (jazz, blues, vocal works) may benefit from such a set-up (inverting phase), if at all.

 

[jls001]

But on a objective assessment, only lovers of simple music (jazz, blues, vocal works) may benefit from such a set-up (inverting phase), if at all.

When connecting part of the audio chain out of phase, a sound that should be centred - like the lead vocals, or lead instrument, mysteriously spreads out to the left and right, leaving a hole where the phantom stereo centre should be. It does give a sense of more spread out sound stage and a sense of airiness, but as one listens closely it becomes clear that the widened sound stage and airiness are not natural.

Inverting a phase on a channel/s for achieving some audio effect at the mixing-mastering stage is a different matter.

 

[AP@1992]

When connecting part of the audio chain out of phase, a sound that should be centred - like the lead vocals, or lead instrument, mysteriously spreads out to the left and right, leaving a hole where the phantom stereo centre should be. It does give a sense of more spread out sound stage and a sense of airiness, but as one listens closely it becomes clear that the widened sound stage and airiness are not natural.

Inverting a phase on a channel/s for achieving some audio effect at the mixing-mastering stage is a different matter.

Completely agree with you. But one must definitely try and experience it to find whether it suits their tastes without being impacted about any negative air around it.

 

[Analogous]

Completely agree with you. But one must definitely try and experience it to find whether it suits their tastes without being impacted about any negative air around it.

Just to Take care not to short the speaker terminals while doing this with the amplifier switched on