Need your opinion on Blue jeans LC-1 stereo interconnect

[shanmune]

Whilst they don't even begin to "compete" with high-price cables, they still cost enough to make a completer re-cable quite expensive. My order, with shipping, came to about UK150. I expect to buy some more, but it will have to wait

.

I got a bill for around $ 47 (includes shiping cost- excluding the INR to USD exchange commission) for 3.5 ft LC-1. In fact I opted for the Fedx 2day local delivery and it was delivered to my friend who was on a short trip to US.
Surprised to see UK150 for yours even it is for international shipping.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

150GBP sounds too much. I got an sub cable and the lc-1 and component all together for much less.

.I got a bill for around $ 47 (includes shiping cost- excluding the INR to USD exchange commission) for 3.5 ft LC-1. In fact I opted for the Fedx 2day local delivery and it was delivered to my friend who was on a short trip to US.
Surprised to see UK150 for yours even it is for international shipping.

Whoops, should had said 140. Never was good at remembering numbers

And, guys, you are jumping to conclusions

I did not say how many cables I ordered! hyeah:

The prices are there for all to see, and so we will all pay the same. I thought the carriage charges were very reasonable. The only thing is the duty/tax; if this came in the post, it would probably pass customs with no charge at all.

3 	BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables, 0 1/2 metre, Black, with Techflex (21.75)
S-Code 0.37~465~3 	21.75 	65.25
1 	BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables, 1 metre, White, with Techflex (25.75)
S-Code 0.55~549~5 	25.75 	25.75
1 	BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables, 1 metre, Black, with Techflex (25.75)
S-Code 0.55~549~5 	25.75 	25.75
Notes:

Shipping Method:FedEx International Priority
	
Shipping 	0.00
Sales Tax 	16.56
Total 	139.26

Actually, I just noticed that shipping there shows as zero! I think it was about 8 on the shopping cart ... but they have a complex explanation about how they calculate it, and I'd rather try to understand cable technology!

I have opened very old coax cables used in pro applications in temperature- and humidity-controlled environments. The braided shield on some makes were badly oxidated while some looked pristine. Just to be on the safer side, it is good to replace them with new ones as copper oxidates over time.

All looks fine under the RCA-plug covers, so is probably even better under the cable insulation. A pair of VdeH interconnects I had fell apart at one end. Whilst that was probably the stress-bent end, corrosion was likely the real culprit.

Completely agree about (good) video cables being well shielded. I have never tried them as audio interconnects but I have no reason to believe they will sound bad. Also recommended as analog audio interconnect is double shielded coax cables meant for IF and RF applications.

Did you read about their experiment to check out the best structure for hum resistance? Details I forget, but they took an exaggerated length of cable, and kept it very close to mains current.

The development-by-accident-and-history of RCA/phono cables, with no standard at all, is one of the things which has laid the field open to all and everybody's personal recipes, personal claims, and personal pricing. It's a mess, really!

That's their marketing! It's just that they don't use the usual argot the cable marketer.

True. But the absence of lies and half-truths, to me, is a symptom of decent dealing.

What I mean by half truths: a network cable with RJ45 connectors has, among its selling points, "Solder-less connections." True... but all common RJ45 connectors are solder-less! Even some dreadful 50ps Chinese cable that comes nowhere near fullfilling CAT-anything specs will have no solder.

It's nice to see straightforward electrical specs. If you want to know the resistance and capacitance, it is there, but it it is not information that I can make much of. Hence I use small details that I do know something about to help establish some sort of bullshit coefficient.

 

[shanmune]

^ A truck load of cables ??? Vow :yahoo: Are you planning to become the distributor of Blue jeans cables ? Next time I need a cable, I will call you :lol:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The full desktop suite would look something like this...

Phono Pre-->Pre-amp

Cassette-->Pre-amp (possibly *2; tape loop, although I can't really think I'll ever be recording cassettes ever again)

Audiofire Interface-->Pre-amp (*2, i/o, tape loop) (this is a special balanced/unbalanced TRS/RCA, will probably stick with my current home-mades)

ODAC-->Pre-amp.

Pre-amp-->Headphone-amp

Pre-amp-->Powered speakers (hopefully proper actives in the future)​

So far, I have only covered the most used. I'm not throwing anything away (well, obviously!) so the CA cables will just go to the hifi (cassette/CDP/Integrated) where maybe-lesser cables are currently in use. I don't believe there has ever been anything wrong with those cables.

 

[gobble]

^ A truck load of cables ??? Vow :yahoo: Are you planning to become the distributor of Blue jeans cables ? Next time I need a cable, I will call you :lol:

The full desktop suite would look something like this...

Phono Pre-->Pre-amp

Cassette-->Pre-amp (possibly *2; tape loop, although I can't really think I'll ever be recording cassettes ever again)

Audiofire Interface-->Pre-amp (*2, i/o, tape loop) (this is a special balanced/unbalanced TRS/RCA, will probably stick with my current home-mades)

ODAC-->Pre-amp.

Pre-amp-->Headphone-amp

Pre-amp-->Powered speakers (hopefully proper actives in the future)​

A real blue jeans shop ... with Thad ... sitting and listening to music ... in his Blue Jeans ...!! hyeah:

I wish you had ordered the more flexible and stranded copper version as well for a sample review of SQ instead of all three of the same type. This one is solid core and the skin effect could well give you ... some skin eruptions ...

G0bble

 

[srinisundar]

Thad, we will have an simple hearing comparison meeting with few other IC's when BJ cable arrives.

Have u added any Coaxial cables in the order ?

Regards

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yes, they are all co-ax.

gobble, the skin effect, for audio, is one of those half-truths of the audio industry: it exists, so it is half true, but it is not relevant, so it is half-false, and half-false beats half-true .

I have certainly experienced a "skin effect," though: only a few days ago, I discovered that rats had gnawed into the cable for my pressure washer. I found that out by standing on it

 

[shanmune]

Yes, they are all co-ax.

gobble, the skin effect, for audio, is one of those half-truths of the audio industry: it exists, so it is half true, but it is not relevant, so it is half-false, and half-false beats half-true .

In fact what I read was that the skin effect becomes relevant only in the range of radio frequencies (in MHz).

 

[shanmune]

Some thing in my mind, I guess my hyper-active curiosity, is bothering me about the cables effect. I wish not to start any war, but this is purely my own thoughts/questions arising in my mind. The objective is to know the truth and nothing more than that.

Many said that they have heard significant difference between the cables. If they have heard, then I also need to believe in what they are saying. Both srinisundar and gobble have heard the difference and so let us not debate in saying that they are wrong. They have heard the difference and that is what the fact is. Now, that has made me more curious to know why they are hearing the difference Basically I am looking for some scientific reasons for that.

With the above context, I have these two points or questions. Please note that these questions are not for the believers, but mostly for the cable manufacturers who claim that there is some thing extra in their cables. If some one knows that secret, please share them here.

QUESTION#1:
==========
Most of the articles (at least what I read) are pointing out that only the electrical characteristics (LCR) of the IC cables matters for the sonic quality. As per that, decently built ICs with reasonable electrical properties (and good shielding) should all sound the same. Now, if there is still a difference, then there should be some thing else apart from the LCR parameters (and shielding) which are affecting the sound quality. What are those additional parameters that are claimed to make the exotic cables sound great (apart from LCR) ? Are there any measurements to support those claims ?
[NOTE: When I am asking these questions, I am not questioning or doubting the believers who have actually witnessed/heard the difference, but more of trying to know why that difference is existing ... Hope every one takes these questions in that spirit )

QUESTION#2:
=========
Let's say cable-A has very good LCR parameters and shielding. cable-B's electrical parameters are unknown. Suppose, we hear some difference between cable-A and cable-B and the latter sounding better to our ears.
Can that be due to cable-A sounding neutral and transparent (and so perceived to be dull sometimes) , while cable-B is doing some thing extra to make the sound more attractive ? So is the perceived difference due to this where one cable is actually being transparent and the other cable is not ????
To put in others words - A cable with excellent electrical characteristics sounds transparent/neutral, but it doesn't appeal like the one from the other cable which is doing some thing to spice up the sound. Is this could be reason why believers hear the difference between a decent (good electrical parameters + shielding) and an exotic cable (which is spicing up some thing else) ???? Transparency/neutral - versus - adding spice ???

I am looking for objective and scientific answers and that's how the above questions need to be looked at.

[NOTE: I am bit concerned if this could trigger some friction, but my curiosity is not stopping me in putting this post ]
Shanti ...Shanti ... Shanti ...

 

[Jatt_boy]

A very simple question to everyone:

How would you ascertain that a certain cable is Transparent/Neutral or adds vivid colors?

Where is the reference to compare and see the difference.

One cable can sound dull, another can sound bright, yet another can sound warm. But how would you TAG a certain cable with transparency or coloration???. This is what i don't understand.

If someone says Cable B is adding Color and Cable A is neutral, how can you say that? There is a high possibility that what a cable is transparent to one individual could be brighter to another, cause we perceive the things differently.

 

[shanmune]

A very simple question to everyone:

How would you ascertain that a certain cable is Transparent/Neutral or adds vivid colors?

Where is the reference to compare and see the difference.

One cable can sound dull, another can sound bright, yet another can sound warm. But how would you TAG a certain cable with transparency or coloration???. This is what i don't understand.

If someone says Cable B is adding Color and Cable A is neutral, how can you say that? There is a high possibility that what a cable is transparent to one individual could be brighter to another, cause we perceive the things differently.

Hi Jatt_boy,
Very good questions ...
Okay ... let me put some more details in the context of the questions that I had already put. When I say transparent, I assume it is doing the least
de-gradation or modification to the signal. Now, how do i know if cable-A is doing that exactly ?? In reality, I doubt we will get any answer. But in my question, I am telling, for the argument sake, that cable-A is doing the least modification to the signal (when I say about modification - robbing certain frequencies due to some inherent filter characteristics of the cable).

cable-A --> doing the least to alter the signal when compared to cable-B. So let's take this as the theoretical point for discussion and in that context, I have put the questions.

I have these questions for you :-
1. When we say that one cable sounds warm and another cable sounds bright, why is that happening in the very first place ? No doubt, people do hear the difference (like warm and bright), but what is causing that difference ??? Is there anything apart from the electrical characteristics ?? This is precisely what I am trying to find answers ...
If you ask some, they will tell why the cables should sound like tone controls ? why should they sound as warm or bright ??? If so, are they altering the signals too much ? In case if I want the least alteration to the signal, should it be enough to keep the LCR parameters good enough ? Or what other parameters should one take into consideration for making a cable ???

 

[shanmune]

Also, I am assuming that a cable with the best electrical characteristics does minimal alteration to the audio signal. This is my understanding. At the same time, I am willing to be corrected on this.

 

[srinisundar]

Many said that they have heard significant difference between the cables. If they have heard, then I also need to believe in what they are saying. Both srinisundar and gobble have heard the difference and so let us not debate in saying that they are wrong. They have heard the difference and that is what the fact is.
Shanti ...Shanti ... Shanti ...

Not srinisundar and gobble alone, plenty of silent watchers are here who have heard and felt the difference. Only thing they are not putting is many persons here post foolishly/ rubbish comments without hearing any cable and for time pass to trig the words war and have fun of it.:lol:

I request few posters here how many cables/rca or coaxial or speaker cable you have heard, can you please list them here and let them tell there is no difference they have heard in anything

 

[Jatt_boy]

cable-A --> doing the least to alter the signal when compared to cable-B. So let's take this as the theoretical point for discussion and in that context, I have put the questions.

I have these questions for you :-
1. When say that one cable sounds warm and another cables sounds bright, why is that happening in the very first place ? No doubt, people do hear trhe difference (like warm and bright), but what is causing that difference ??? Is there anything apart from the electrical characteristics ?? This is precisely what I am trying to find answers ...

If some people say certain cable is warm, there is a high possibility that the same cable can be termed as bright by another set of people.

Even i am also confused, once i was with my friend who was complaining that his cables were bright, after giving a listen to them i found them warm not bright.:sad:

 

[Jatt_boy]

Also, I am assuming that a cable with the best electrical characteristics does minimal alteration to the audio signal. This is my understanding. At the same time, I am willing to be corrected on this.

What about the decoding ability of brain, the sensitivity of ears to pick certain frequencies more than others , also the capability of the ears to able to decipher the extreme end of high frequencies, these vary from a person to person. I don't think electrical characteristics can matter in such a case. Its more of a brain's capability than anything else.

You can though try this experiment:

Do Cables Really Make A Difference? - Audiophile Review

 

[shanmune]

Not srinisundar and gobble alone, plenty of silent watchers are here who have heard and felt the difference. Only thing they are not putting is many persons here post foolishly/ rubbish comments without hearing any cable and for time pass to trig the words war and have fun of it.:lol:

I request few posters here how many cables/rca or coaxial or speaker cable you have heard, can you please list them here and let them tell there is no difference they have heard in anything

srini,
Even I have heard subtle difference between two different cables from Murthy's shop. I think we shouldn't debate whether we hear it or not, but we should ask why we are hearing the difference in the very first place. what is the scientific reason in hearing that difference ? I do agree there is a difference, but why (apart from the electrical characteristics) ?

Let me put this straight question. You said that the Nordost BH sound was better than the sound with BJ LC-1. I agree that you heard the difference and I am not saying anything on that.... but when BJ LC-1 has excellent electrical characteristics, what is that extra in Nordost BH making the sound different ? Please don't take this question as though I am doubting the claims made by you and others, but more of looking for the actual engineering reasons in hearing that difference. Again, it will be totally unfair on my part to expect scientific answers from you, but if some one has very good scientific explanation, I will be very happy and open to hear it. Hope you understand my intent in asking those questions.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

How would you ascertain that a certain cable is Transparent/Neutral or adds vivid colors?

Yes, it is a very good question, and the answer is that, within reasonable extents, we probably can't.

Now, as "audiophiles" we suffer a certain self-awarded expertise. We listen to equipment, nod sagely, and deliver our verdicts. There is even a certain arrogance involved, and we are not fond of being told we are wrong or misguided. Let me under-line We... I do it too. Of course, this is not to say that we are not sometimes, or even often, right!

Of course, it is true to say that the more familiar a person is with the sound of acoustic instruments, the better able they are to score the fidelity of a system or its components for naturalness. It's true, of course, but still it is unlikely that any of us were actually there at any specific recording.

But to get back to Jatt_boy's very pertinent question. We can't tell with any degree of certainty, but the cable companies can, or should be able to, measure, compare and publish honest results. That obviously won't ever happen now, as a whole trade has grown up around vague claims and lack of honesty.

Actually, there is more that we could do, because a certain amount of not-purely-subjective testing is well within our reach. Many of us that seek to be more objective are really a bit lazy to put such tests together, and those that don't decry such things with a fervour that is as supernatural as the claims made by the cable companies.

Otherwise, Shanmune, I think you are right: cables can act as filters. Please note, though, that the supernatural camp will accuse me of saying that cables cannot make a difference, even thought I have clearly just said that cables can make a difference!

As to the best electrical characteristics, perhaps we should substitute "most appropriate" for the purpose. I'm happy to let engineers answer that.

<crossposted>

Only thing they are not putting is many persons here post foolishly/ rubbish comments without hearing any cable and for time pass to trig the words war and have fun of it

Well, you didn't accuse me of saying there isn't a difference --- but let me repeat that I'm not saying that, I'm saying that either there shouldn't be, or, at least, the cable companies should come off the the bullshit and sell honestly. They won't... their selling is geared to the market, and it works.

Let me also repeat my signature. I believe that this is one of the most fascinating aspects of our hobby, but most "audiophiles" are not even willing to explore this. Perhaps they feel somehow threatened by the fact that they cannot always "trust their ears." Because it is certainly true that we can't!

 

[shanmune]

If some people say certain cable is warm, there is a high possibility that the same cable can be termed as bright by another set of people.

Even i am also confused, once i was with my friend who was complaining that his cables were bright, after giving a listen to them i found them warm not bright.:sad:

What about the decoding ability of brain, the sensitivity of ears to pick certain frequencies more than others , also the capability of the ears to able to decipher the extreme end of high frequencies, these vary from a person to person. I don't think electrical characteristics can matter in such a case. Its more of a brain's capability than anything else.

You can though try this experiment:

Do Cables Really Make A Difference? - Audiophile Review

You have given a different perspective which I didn't focus too much. Thanks for sharing these information.

Again and for the argument sake, let's say we both have identical hearing capabilities and identical neural processing, what else can contribute to the difference ??? ...

 

[Jatt_boy]

You have given a different perspective which I didn't focus too much. Thanks for sharing these information.

Again and for the argument sake, let's say we both have identical hearing capabilities and identical neural processing, what else can contribute to the difference ??? ...

If you can assume we have similar hearing and processing capabilities then same way it can be assumed that what difference we hear shall also be the same.

But still the reference is missing because we don't know what our brain is decoding and it actually coincides with what the recording in actual should sound like.

 

[gobble]

Not srinisundar and gobble alone, plenty of silent watchers are here who have heard and felt the difference. Only thing they are not putting is many persons here post foolishly/ rubbish comments without hearing any cable and for time pass to trig the words war and have fun of it.:lol:

I request few posters here how many cables/rca or coaxial or speaker cable you have heard, can you please list them here and let them tell there is no difference they have heard in anything

And let me add that I hear differences in USB cables too!! You say bits is bits? It shouldnt matter with digital right? That is too simplistic. Its possibly the timing of bit delivery, the rise and fall of the binary signal (how steep and consistent etc), possibly affected by cable construction and its susceptibility to EMI/RF, DC ripple from PC SMPS on the signal lines (not just power), perhaps even ground may be modulated by ripple and interference? After all even the digital signal is transferred in the analog electrical domain even though its not a sine wave.

@Shanmune, since you are an Blore, you can drop by for a cable shootout at my place someday... Let us see if it is a matter or ears only or both concur on the differences. I have the cheapest profigold, LC-1, BJ Component cables, BH and Murthy's ICs, a 200 buck USB cable, a 15$ tripplite USB with ferrite beads and Pangea Audio usb 4% silver ICs and a BJ SPDIF

Cheers