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New gen basic receiver vs old gen high end receiver

Home Theatre Systems

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
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43
Location
New Delhi
Hey guys
I have a very basic question.
For an year i had been using a basic pioneer 831 receiver which my uncle got from canada. At that time little did i know about avr's. It was just that i gotta good deal there, saw a cnet review and placed the order.
Now very recently i have sold my AVR and currently looking for an upgrade.
Now the dilemma is whether to go for a used old generation receiver like a flagship from say 2014 or 2015 or whether to buy a basic current gen receiver.
( strict budget hence this dilema :p)

I feel most indian movies are devoid of any effects and everything which is like 70% of the my total movie watching anyway i am confused whether 9 channel 11 channel auro 3d and all that stuff is of any use to me.
A good 5.1 should keep me satisfied for atleast 2 to 3 years from now.
So what shud i do-- new gen basic or old gen high end.
 

dillihifi

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Aug 6, 2008
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Get a new gen basic. This should serve you well for the next 2-3 years. Further you will also have more probability of bluetooth/ wireless /more no. of HDMI i/ps as well as apps for remote control in the new gen basic AVR.
 

efernand1

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Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
5,513
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Location
Mumbai
Hey guys
I have a very basic question.
For an year i had been using a basic pioneer 831 receiver which my uncle got from canada. At that time little did i know about avr's. It was just that i gotta good deal there, saw a cnet review and placed the order.
Now very recently i have sold my AVR and currently looking for an upgrade.
Now the dilemma is whether to go for a used old generation receiver like a flagship from say 2014 or 2015 or whether to buy a basic current gen receiver.
( strict budget hence this dilema :p)

I feel most indian movies are devoid of any effects and everything which is like 70% of the my total movie watching anyway i am confused whether 9 channel 11 channel auro 3d and all that stuff is of any use to me.
A good 5.1 should keep me satisfied for atleast 2 to 3 years from now.
So what shud i do-- new gen basic or old gen high end.


Hi

Most AVRs today are being hyped with features like Bluetooth, Wifi etc.....these are all gimmicks.....tough competition in the market...

Honestly when Dolby Atmos was launched a couple of years baclk...didnt see any much difference when compared to a 7.1 setup....

Most content nowadays are 5.1 and some are available in 7.1....Atmos is still settling in......

DTH providers or cable TV dont really provide true 5.1 surround or Dolby Digital....while other countries may for sure have it....we (India) is still to get there.....the providers themselves need to get their infrastructure right!

I am using a flagship Marantz SR series model...SR 6009 which is 7.2....my setup is 5.1 speakers.....i get barely 2 hours in a day to use it.....weekends possibly 4 to 8 hours.....depends on outing schedules etc.....the latest model is SR6012/13.

A NR series is more than enough for my place, the only reason i am using a SR series is because of the SQ.......MultiEQ32XT........

I may possibly go for a Atmos setup once i feel and is convinced that it has indeed settled in well and we have various sources which indeed provide DD and Atmos content appropriately.

For me now, SQ is important. I have an Oppo which takes care of downloaded material and Blu Rays....the Laptop is hooked up for online stuff....

So decide wisely....trust your ears and buy what you will actually use.....no point getting an AVR where you will not use 50% of the features.......

All the best!...this is my realistic logical perspective on usage and budget.....others may have different views......
 

spirovious

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Apr 10, 2008
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It depend on whats your need.lf you need more features,atmos etc,then new series basic avr good for you.lf you need good sound,then old ,flagship will be the better choice.Only you need to see if old avr is maintained properly or any repaired done.
 

elangoas

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Messages
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Location
Madrasapattinam
A good 5.1 should keep me satisfied for atleast 2 to 3 years from now.
So what shud i do-- new gen basic or old gen high end.

You anyways had a 5.1 AVR, so give yourself a chance of experiencing movies in > 5.1, depending on your budget and your video needs (FHD Vs 4K)..

Even the older series flagship models are absurdly expensive (in India), best bet is to settle for older mid-range series.. Anyways, try scouting for models and enq best pricing..

I feel most indian movies are devoid of any effects and everything which is like 70% of the my total movie watching anyway i am confused whether 9 channel 11 channel auro 3d and all that stuff is of any use to me.

Even if the movies are in standard 5/7.1 content, you can use DSP modes in the AVR to expand it to 5/7.1 + 2 (or) 4 height channels in your room.. More impactful movie watching..

BTW, there are plenty of movies in Atmos in both BR discs/ BR Rips .. So get an Atmos capable AVR..
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
Se
Hi

Most AVRs today are being hyped with features like Bluetooth, Wifi etc.....these are all gimmicks.....tough competition in the market...

Honestly when Dolby Atmos was launched a couple of years baclk...didnt see any much difference when compared to a 7.1 setup....

Most content nowadays are 5.1 and some are available in 7.1....Atmos is still settling in......

DTH providers or cable TV dont really provide true 5.1 surround or Dolby Digital....while other countries may for sure have it....we (India) is still to get there.....the providers themselves need to get their infrastructure right!

I am using a flagship Marantz SR series model...SR 6009 which is 7.2....my setup is 5.1 speakers.....i get barely 2 hours in a day to use it.....weekends possibly 4 to 8 hours.....depends on outing schedules etc.....the latest model is SR6012/13.

A NR series is more than enough for my place, the only reason i am using a SR series is because of the SQ.......MultiEQ32XT........

I may possibly go for a Atmos setup once i feel and is convinced that it has indeed settled in well and we have various sources which indeed provide DD and Atmos content appropriately.

For me now, SQ is important. I have an Oppo which takes care of downloaded material and Blu Rays....the Laptop is hooked up for online stuff....

So decide wisely....trust your ears and buy what you will actually use.....no point getting an AVR where you will not use 50% of the features.......

All the best!...this is my realistic logical perspective on usage and budget.....others may have different views......
Seriously. You have literally put it an a prudent way.. in real use case scenario most of the features iffered are gimmicky.
 

efernand1

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Messages
5,513
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Location
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Unfortunate reality in todays world....no more stuff made in Japan...there are some Dealers over OLX whose ads i have seen selling made in Japan preowned stuff for sky rocketing prices.......as they are aware....made in japan stuff if used appropriately last a good 20-30 years....possibly even more....

Thats the reason from a realistic perspective, I try to do with what fits the requirement, budget, need for best SQ and overall performance required in a decent HT setup.
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
Unfortunate reality in todays world....no more stuff made in Japan...there are some Dealers over OLX whose ads i have seen selling made in Japan preowned stuff for sky rocketing prices.......as they are aware....made in japan stuff if used appropriately last a good 20-30 years....possibly even more....

Thats the reason from a realistic perspective, I try to do with what fits the requirement, budget, need for best SQ and overall performance required in a decent HT setup.
So is it true? About made in japan? Do we have stuff made in japan available now? And also by looking at a model online how do u come to know that whether its made in japan or made in chinq..
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
It depend on whats your need.lf you need more features,atmos etc,then new series basic avr good for you.lf you need good sound,then old ,flagship will be the better choice.Only you need to see if old avr is maintained properly or any repaired done.
Since you guys have a lot of experience.. how do u check old used equipment? Like if i come across a receiver which is cosmetically fine, how would i know about the internal aspects.
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
You anyways had a 5.1 AVR, so give yourself a chance of experiencing movies in > 5.1, depending on your budget and your video needs (FHD Vs 4K)..

Even the older series flagship models are absurdly expensive (in India), best bet is to settle for older mid-range series.. Anyways, try scouting for models and enq best pricing..



Even if the movies are in standard 5/7.1 content, you can use DSP modes in the AVR to expand it to 5/7.1 + 2 (or) 4 height channels in your room.. More impactful movie watching..

BTW, there are plenty of movies in Atmos in both BR discs/ BR Rips .. So get an Atmos capable AVR..

Do we get older models easily? My tv is 4k i guess 4k pass through wud make sense to me .
What's the easiest way to know what additional features have been added in the avr. Like marantz 6011vs 6012 vs 6013..
 

Dr.Lakshay

Active Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
462
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Location
Ghaziabad
I personally would any day go for a modern day avr. First a new product will definitely be more reliable than a used product.
2nd the features. I think you should get a dobly atmos capable avr. They have processing which can change even 2 channel sound to multi channel (neural x etc) and they are really worth it for those movie nights.
For example I went for Sony strdn 1080 as it ticked everything I wanted - 4k up scaling if I upgrade to 4k TV, HDR 10 compatible, Dolby atmos, Bluetooth, WiFi, chromecast. Don't under estimate these features as I use them very often.
Similarly make a list of what all features you want. And then note down the models that have them all. And then thoroughly read every model's reviews from different sources.
One reason I chose the Sony was that it is equally good for music and movies. And yes it is. Similarly denon are also good for both but better for movies. And Marantz better for music. Yamahas are also better for both and have good build quality.
 

hifitoaster

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Jul 4, 2018
Messages
624
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63
Location
India
I second buying new for warranty reasons. Otherwise if your viewing habits are limited to Netflix or just local language DVDs then getting a yester year hi end amp is also worth looking. For music listening, most top end amps 10 years back too can do upto 24/96. But again, from my experience going for old avrs is always risky. I had failed Onkyos, Yamahas and Harmans in the past. A new one has equal failure possibility. But atleast you are covered for the first year (hope most brands supports only 1 year warranty in India) which is a good thing.
 

hifitoaster

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Since you guys have a lot of experience.. how do u check old used equipment? Like if i come across a receiver which is cosmetically fine, how would i know about the internal aspects.
Its very very hard. I had few bitter experiences:

1. Harman AVR 2000 picked up from a folk in Banglore, cosmetically perfect, after 2 months it failed to start. Took to a repair guy(who knows the stuff, told me the amp had some cold solders, he fixed it worked for another month again stopped working. he said, lot of the joints inside were bad, as it was previously used in a real moist home). The repair guy told the amp had lot of fixing done before , but it was not noticeable even from a first glance inside as the resolder points were under the board.

2. Onkyo HTR 990THX, worked absolutely fine until one day a small power fluctuation killed the volume control IC inside. Sold both the amps. There was no previous repair done on this amp according to the fixing guy!

Sold both the amps together as defective piece under 3k.

3. Yamaha RXV995 : This yamahas of this era are a nightmare; When it works they sound decent, but suddenly stops shutting down and comes back when they feel like. The processor was at fault. Amps, pre amps dacs everything fine. Still lying under my coat at home collecting dust.

I had owned / sold around 20 AVRs in the last 10 years, these 3 were the failures, which would suggest no brand is free from trouble. If you do not like risk, get a new one.

Truth is : if you pick up a used AVR from south India, its more likely to be coming from Ritchie street chennai. If you go there you can pick up those amps for a much cheaper price than these OLX / QUICKR guys.. Anyways, in both cases risk is same. Also at ritchie street, u would see stacks of failed amps which would get you an idea about reliability of older amps.
 

elangoas

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Do we get older models easily?

When i say older models, i mean couple of years older.. Yes, you may get them.. You need to check with multiple sources on aval.. Good chances you can get it for a very good price..

My tv is 4k i guess 4k pass through wud make sense to me .

If any of the 4K associated features like HDR, Dolby Vision all that is of your interest, then you may need to choose a model..

What's the easiest way to know what additional features have been added in the avr. Like marantz 6011vs 6012 vs 6013..

Crutchfield used to have this informative links in comparing current Vs previous year AVR models.. The best you can do is, download the product sheet from Marantz site itself for all these three models and compare it side by side to take an informed decision..
 

efernand1

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Messages
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So is it true? About made in japan? Do we have stuff made in japan available now? And also by looking at a model online how do u come to know that whether its made in japan or made in chinq..

It will be clearly mentioned on the product and yes there would be enough user reviews over google to tell you the same.......
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
571
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
Its very very hard. I had few bitter experiences:

1. Harman AVR 2000 picked up from a folk in Banglore, cosmetically perfect, after 2 months it failed to start. Took to a repair guy(who knows the stuff, told me the amp had some cold solders, he fixed it worked for another month again stopped working. he said, lot of the joints inside were bad, as it was previously used in a real moist home). The repair guy told the amp had lot of fixing done before , but it was not noticeable even from a first glance inside as the resolder points were under the board.

2. Onkyo HTR 990THX, worked absolutely fine until one day a small power fluctuation killed the volume control IC inside. Sold both the amps. There was no previous repair done on this amp according to the fixing guy!

Sold both the amps together as defective piece under 3k.

3. Yamaha RXV995 : This yamahas of this era are a nightmare; When it works they sound decent, but suddenly stops shutting down and comes back when they feel like. The processor was at fault. Amps, pre amps dacs everything fine. Still lying under my coat at home collecting dust.

I had owned / sold around 20 AVRs in the last 10 years, these 3 were the failures, which would suggest no brand is free from trouble. If you do not like risk, get a new one.

Truth is : if you pick up a used AVR from south India, its more likely to be coming from Ritchie street chennai. If you go there you can pick up those amps for a much cheaper price than these OLX / QUICKR guys.. Anyways, in both cases risk is same. Also at ritchie street, u would see stacks of failed amps which would get you an idea about reliability of older amps.
I have seen quite a few guys selling avrs like 30% below mrp.. imported from singapore.. are they reliable? They are all from chennai!
 

rpmahale

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Anything less than three years old, carefully maintain, never repaired and less than 50% of purchase price can make a good deal. Never forget to add 12-15% in purchase price as you are not getting one year warranty. Now compare with the latest available AVR in the market (with calculated price) for features, channels, power and take decision. Now days most of the AVR have a shelf life of upto 5 years and can become absolute due to technicallogical advances , average build quality, poorly maintained. Age, availability of service, spare parts and repairs/spares cost are few factors needs to consider before closing the deal. Sometimes you may click a great pre-owned deals with reasonable price but audition and physical inspection is must for fully satisfied deal.
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
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Messages
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Location
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It will be clearly mentioned on the product and yes there would be enough user reviews over google to tell you the same.......
Basically what does japan and china do differently? I mean if its a brand it'll have some sort of quality control right? Infact the iphone is made in china but nobody says this iphone is made in singapore or this iphone is made in china.. i think this made in japan thing is a little bit hyped! Isnt it?
 

MaSh

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A couple of things to keep in mind when picking a Receiver, be it Old, New, User, Demo, Unused, Others, etc.

1. Your Inputs now and upcoming inputs in next 2 Years. Also Outputs, 2 HDMI, Pre outs, Zone 2, etc.
2. Your speaker setup, 5.1, 7.1, etc. now and for next 2 years.
3. Decoders You need, DTS, DD, etc.
4. Auto Setup provider and its Variant, Audyssey, YPAO, Dirac, etc.

Once you have these 4 covered you will surely have a much shorter list of receivers models you need that fit your Budget. Buying New Or Old is completely on your comfort level. If you have the knack to pick the deal on OLX, verify the product and seller, go for it by all means, else get in touch with dealers also present on OLX who sell sealed boxes/demo units, etc. If you are not into this and have deep enough pockets, New Receiver with warranty is your only way out. Regarding wattage, any receiver pushing out 80w at 20 - 20k Hz at 8Ohms, 2 channels driven should be able to drive 90% of the speakers.

Good Luck
MaSh
 

efernand1

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Basically what does japan and china do differently? I mean if its a brand it'll have some sort of quality control right? Infact the iphone is made in china but nobody says this iphone is made in singapore or this iphone is made in china.. i think this made in japan thing is a little bit hyped! Isnt it?

Components used by Made in Japan is high graded ones....Japanese are known to test their products to such an extent that they stand out durable......

Made in China products nowadays sadly konk off soon.....you may stretch by conservative use for 3-5 years....after that parts start failing you....
 
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