New home theater system in mumbai

Wharfedale Evo 4.1 Bookshelf Speaker

shyamal

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Hi
I am a new joinee to this forum. Am very impressed with the knowledge base, helpfulness and tech orientation of the various members in this forum and though I should seek the help of the experts here to decide on my HTS.

I have been looking for a new HTS for some time. Have auditioned quite a few speaker systems (Wharfedale, Quad, KEF, Polk, JBL, Yamaha, Bose, Infinity, Energy) and AVRs (Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, Harman Kardon). Based on what I could make out of the sound quality and my readings on the net, have shirt listed the following:

- AVRs: Denon 1909, 1709 or Yamaha 663

- Speakers: Wharfedale (F/s+B/s+s/w), Energy Take Classic (4sats+s/w) or Polk (Tsi300 f/s, Tsi 200 b/s, CS20 c/c and PSW PRO500 s/w)

My requirements are as follows:
- Room size (14X22=~300 sq ft)
- Listening distance (usual) 10-12ft (widthwise)
- Have a small child (~2yrs) so tho would like f/s speakers not sure if its a good idea so may need to settle for satellite spkrs
- Movies (75%), Bal Music
- Budget open between 60k to 100k for Spkr + AVR but want a deal that suits my requirements and is not ve VFM (like Bose)

Have the foll questions would be thankful for comments from the audiophile experts in this forums:
- Polk combo (with f/s etc) seems good value will work out to 60-65k without AVR but is the Tsi series good enough the brochure doesnt mention many technical specs including the wattage for spkrs other than s/w is it a good combo?
- Energy Take Classic sounded good, reviews across sites are uniformly good but is it only because its cheap and considered VFM (32k in India and $400 in US) or is it good on standalone basis
- If I take Energy Take Classic which is 5.1 (and Energy doesnt sell separate speakers), does it make sense to buy a 7.1 AVR like D 1909, 1709 or Y 663
- Can I add 2 F/s speakers later from any other brand and run it with the 5.1 Energy speakers
- Y 663 seems to have only 2 HDMI inputs and bad review on cnet is it better or would it be better to buy Denon (which many people say has after sales/servicing issues - one of my friends had denon which onked in a yr and had to be repaired for 15k) also someone on this forum sid that ProFx is no longer a Denon dealer and some co called WEI has the dealership is that an issue
- Normally the setting up is done by the dealer or one needs to do it oneself
- Any other suggestions on AVR+Speaker combo within my requirements above or names of good audio shops in Mumbai would be very welcome


Thanks in advance
 

mridulgoel

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Hi
I am a new joinee to this forum. Am very impressed with the knowledge base, helpfulness and tech orientation of the various members in this forum and though I should seek the help of the experts here to decide on my HTS.

I have been looking for a new HTS for some time. Have auditioned quite a few speaker systems (Wharfedale, Quad, KEF, Polk, JBL, Yamaha, Bose, Infinity, Energy) and AVRs (Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, Harman Kardon). Based on what I could make out of the sound quality and my readings on the net, have shirt listed the following:

- AVRs: Denon 1909, 1709 or Yamaha 663

- Speakers: Wharfedale (F/s+B/s+s/w), Energy Take Classic (4sats+s/w) or Polk (Tsi300 f/s, Tsi 200 b/s, CS20 c/c and PSW PRO500 s/w)

My requirements are as follows:
- Room size (14X22=~300 sq ft)
- Listening distance (usual) 10-12ft (widthwise)
- Have a small child (~2yrs) so tho would like f/s speakers not sure if its a good idea so may need to settle for satellite spkrs
- Movies (75%), Bal Music
- Budget open between 60k to 100k for Spkr + AVR but want a deal that suits my requirements and is not ve VFM (like Bose)

Have the foll questions would be thankful for comments from the audiophile experts in this forums:
- Polk combo (with f/s etc) seems good value will work out to 60-65k without AVR but is the Tsi series good enough the brochure doesnt mention many technical specs including the wattage for spkrs other than s/w is it a good combo?
- Energy Take Classic sounded good, reviews across sites are uniformly good but is it only because its cheap and considered VFM (32k in India and $400 in US) or is it good on standalone basis
- If I take Energy Take Classic which is 5.1 (and Energy doesnt sell separate speakers), does it make sense to buy a 7.1 AVR like D 1909, 1709 or Y 663
- Can I add 2 F/s speakers later from any other brand and run it with the 5.1 Energy speakers
- Y 663 seems to have only 2 HDMI inputs and bad review on cnet is it better or would it be better to buy Denon (which many people say has after sales/servicing issues - one of my friends had denon which onked in a yr and had to be repaired for 15k) also someone on this forum sid that ProFx is no longer a Denon dealer and some co called WEI has the dealership is that an issue
- Normally the setting up is done by the dealer or one needs to do it oneself
- Any other suggestions on AVR+Speaker combo within my requirements above or names of good audio shops in Mumbai would be very welcome


Thanks in advance

Hey Buddy

Welcome to the forum...!!!
Hope you get what you are lookin for ... !!! :p HeHe

Anyways, you have done some bit of auditioning,
but did you even experienced the Q Acoustics...
What you have mentioned in for Wharfedale n Polk Audio,
Q Acoustics plays a step further to those...
Both Wharfedale n Polk, have a better base n are loud...
where Q Acoustics is soft and plays good all over...

Just audition them with Denon-1909 & Yamaha-RXV665 and then choose...

You can audition Q Acoustics in Mumbai @ Sharper Image - Mr.Darius - +919821557571

Just have a feel with these am sure, you will find something in it...
 
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iaudio

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Hey Buddy

Welcome to the forum...!!!
Hope you get what you are lookin for ... !!! :p HeHe

Anyways, you have done some bit of auditioning,
but did you even experienced the Q Acoustics...
What you have mentioned in for Wharfedale n Polk Audio,
Q Acoustics plays a step further to those...
Both Wharfedale n Polk, have a better base n are loud...
where Q Acoustics is soft and plays good all over...

Just audition them with Denon-1909 & Yamaha-RXV665 and then choose...

You can audition Q Acoustics in Mumbai @ Sharper Image - Mr.Darius - +919821557571

Just have a feel with these am sure, you will find something in it...

I second that!
 
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shyamal

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thanks a lot - will chk out QA sometime soon. Can u guys indicate which specific models/speaker combo i should consider given my requirements.

What's the view on using Energy Take Classic with one of the 7.1 AVRs mentioned above - is it a good combo and will I be able to add floorstanding (non energy) speakers to the system in future? Also is Energy take classic 5.1 good enough for a 300 sq ft room? Standalone is it a good system ?
 
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venkatcr

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Polk combo (with f/s etc) seems good value will work out to 60-65k without AVR but is the Tsi series good enough the brochure doesnt mention many technical specs including the wattage for spkrs other than s/w is it a good combo?

Polk is a good brand. The TSi specs are available at Polk Audio - TSi Series Technical Specifications.

Energy Take Classic sounded good, reviews across sites are uniformly good but is it only because its cheap and considered VFM (32k in India and $400 in US) or is it good on standalone basis, If I take Energy Take Classic which is 5.1 (and Energy doesnt sell separate speakers), does it make sense to buy a 7.1 AVR like D 1909, 1709 or Y 663

The Energy Take 5 are classic speakers that have been around for over 5 years or so. They were the first satellite/subwoofer combination that sounded good for their size and have been a popular choice among people for a long time. Every year, Energy introduces some improvements to the speakers and makes them even more popular. If your stress is on movies alone, the Energy Take 5 is an excellent choice.

In the recent past other manufacturers have introduced similar speakers albeit slightly larger ones. The satellites that Energy uses have moulded plastic cabinets. Other manufacturers have replaced this with small bookshelves made in wood. The advantage is that such speakers sound better for music in addition to sounding good for movies. One such example is the Q-Acoustics 1010i or the 1030i.

You will find it hard to get a 5.1 AVR unless you go way below in the pecking order of a manufacturer. There is no harm is getting a 7.1. One advantage is, if you buy slightly large floor standing or bookshelves speakers, you could use the amplifier of the Back Surround to Bi-Amp the Front L&R. This will give you better sound for both music and movies. Another advantage is when you can afford it you can add two more speakers at the back and enjoy the new sound formats that are becoming popular. These are called HD formats.

Can I add 2 F/s speakers later from any other brand and run it with the 5.1 Energy speakers

I am not sure about Energy. You have to check with the dealer. If you assemble form other companies using bookshelves, it is very easy to get two additional speakers later on. I think even Q-Acoustics also supplies two bookshelves separately.

Y 663 seems to have only 2 HDMI inputs and bad review on cnet is it better or would it be better to buy Denon (which many people say has after sales/servicing issues - one of my friends had denon which onked in a yr and had to be repaired for 15k) also someone on this forum sid that ProFx is no longer a Denon dealer and some co called WEI has the dealership is that an issue

How many iHDMI inputs do you need? AVRs at this price range usually have only two HDMI inputs. If you are looking for more, you have to look for AVR costing much more. One easy way out is to but a HDMI switch later on. This will allow you to add two/four/six or more HDMI inputs.

The Yamaha 3 series were declared the best AVR in their price range by WhatHiFi. So that counters your CNET review. In addition many members here have either the 663 or the 863 and are very happy with it. I have auditioned the 663 and the 863, and I have found the performances to be very very good, both for movies and for music.

Normally the setting up is done by the dealer or one needs to do it oneself

This depends upon how you negotiate with the dealer. Some of them charge extra for installation. Installing an AVR is quite simple, and we can always help you

Cheers
 
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shyamal

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Thanks- those are v useful inputs
Will try out Q acoustics 1000i series. One reason I didn't audition that earlier is I think I read somewher that it's a v new company set up 3 yrs back- also cnet doesn't even mention these speakers
any sense u can give of how much QA 5.1 system is likely to cost (vis a vis Energy Take classic ) net of discounts
 
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mridulgoel

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Thanks- those are v useful inputs
Will try out Q acoustics 1000i series. One reason I didn't audition that earlier is I think I read somewher that it's a v new company set up 3 yrs back- also cnet doesn't even mention these speakers
any sense u can give of how much QA 5.1 system is likely to cost (vis a vis Energy Take classic ) net of discounts

Buddy

I would like to correct you on the "New Company" thing...

Buddy, the brand has been awarded 5 Stars on all there products, and Best Speaker Package under 75K, again continuously from past 5 yrs...
Then how can the product be 3yrs old...

Yes, the "i" series is 3 yrs old series...
The normal series even did wonders, but the "i" series Redefined the Wonders.

Its a 100% British Brand...
So, dont think on its History or Quality, no one can even over come the [email protected] tht range obviously...
In Higher there are many more...

Have the audition done then take your decision...

Prices are mentioned below for all your references :

1050i - Floor Standers - 2 x 6.5" Mid Range + 1" Tweeter = Rs.38,000/pr
1030i - Floor Standers - 1 x 6.5" Mid Range + 1" Tweeter = Rs.28,000/pr
1020i - Bookshelf - 1 x 5.5" Mid Range + 3/4" Tweeter = Rs.15,000/pr
1010i - Bookshelf - 1 x 4.5" Mid Range + 3/4" Tweeter = Rs.11,750/pr
1000ci - Center Speakr- 2 x 4.5" Mid Range + 1" Tweeter = Rs.11,750/pc
1000si - Subwoofer - 1 x 10" Woofer = Rs.20,000/pc
Wall Mounts - Special Angled Wall Mounts = Rs.900/pc
Speakers Stands - Bookshelf Speaker Stands = Rs.7,250/pr

The above prices are valid for April Month only...
There will be a 10% price increment in the prices from May 2009.

Suggested Amplifiers/Reciever/Integrated Amplifiers to go with :
Cambridge Audio = 540A/540R or 640A/640R
Denon - 1909 or 2308/2309
Yamaha - 665 or 765
Marantz - 6000series
NAD - 5220

Happy Demo...
 
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particleman

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Since you are buying an AV receiver at a time when Blu-Ray is gaining in popularity and wider acceptance, you should give some thought to the features available in the setup you are about to invest in. If you are certain that relevant features such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD will not be missed then you're okay. Else you may want to evaluate receivers that support these. Of course, you can still compromise by connecting your Blu-Ray player to the AVR via analogue cables. Just thought I should bring this up.

In Mumbai, I would heartily recommend Boom-a-rang at Juhu near Prithvi Theatre. They also have a showroom in town. You can speak to Grattan Vaz at 9820949395 or 26194452.
 
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shyamal

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Thanks particleman.
Could you let me know which are the AVRs support these features and are otherwise also good and reasonably priced I had shortlisted denon1909 and was under the impression that it supports most of these features, also has 3 hdmi input ports, 1080 upscaling etc

Based on my second round of auditions over the weekend (Polk, Wharfedale and Energy) I have eliminated sat speakers as an option.
But I still haven't been able to make up my mind as to whether to go for bookshelves as fronts or floorstanders (given my daughter is 2.5 yrs and am not sure if f/s is a good idea)

Brands - Polk, wharfedale and energy are on the shortlist (but not the take classic - I found the sat speakers straining at higher volumes)

Also the Energy dealer has called to say that they have a special offer of Rs65k for the foll combo. (Without the AVR)
F/s c-500 x 2
c-r100 bipole rear x2
C-c100 centre
S10.3 I subwoofer

Is that a good speaker combination? Also, any views on the price offered ?

Lastly, is athena a good brand for speakers?

Thanks
 
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prakasse

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You will find it hard to get a 5.1 AVR unless you go way below in the pecking order of a manufacturer. There is no harm is getting a 7.1. One advantage is, if you buy slightly large floor standing or bookshelves speakers, you could use the amplifier of the Back Surround to Bi-Amp the Front L&R. This will give you better sound for both music and movies.

Hi Venkat,

How to do this and what setting need to be done? If you can update this in your connectivity thread, it will be very useful to forum members.

Thanks,
Prakash.
 
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marsilians

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...
So, dont think on its History or Quality, no one can even over come the [email protected] tht range obviously...
In Higher there are many more...

Hi Mridul

I don't quite understand what you are suggesting here. Why would not anyone want to understand the history of the company or products esp. in HiFi? Quality has to be a major consideration as well.

Also, which brands has Q Acoustics been compared against and results published that leads you to state that no other brand can be compared to this at the price range?

I understand your enthusiasm in support of the brand but it should not be at the cost of not considering others.
 
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venkatcr

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How to do this and what setting need to be done? If you can update this in your connectivity thread, it will be very useful to forum members.

I will edit the Connectivity thread within this week.

In the meantime there have a number of threads that have discussed bi-amping. Some of them are:

http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/3152-how-bi-amp-denon-2309-a.html

http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/615-bi-wiring.html

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/1484-bi-amping-ca-540a-ver-2-a.html

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/831-bi-amp-bridged-mono.html

Read through these threads and come back with specific questions on your amp and speakers. You have to ensure both your amp and your speakers have biamping capabilities. In a speaker, if you look at the back, and it has FOUR binding posts, it can be bi-amped. With reference to your amp, you have to scan through the manual.

Bi-amping a 7.1 AVR is relatively simple, though the advantages are something people will always contest.

Cheers
 
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vishanv

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from what I understand about bi-amping, it will not yield any noticeable result unless you ensure that the load is shared by the two amps. to help this happen, you need a cross over between the amp and pre-amp section.

check out these links for some info...

What is Bi-Amplification.
Untitled Document

not all 7.1 receiver can do this, for example my maratnz 8500 has no option to bi-amp, but it allows Bi-wring.
I have read some AVRs like Onkyo 606 has a bi-amp mode for surround backs. I interpret this as the onkyo having an active crossover enabled which shares the load for front speakers between the front L/R for low pass and Surround backs L/R for high pass. But it seems there is no clear explanation or specification in the Onkyo manual.

Bi-Wiring has been in my mind for a long time, but never got time to do it. hope to experiment it myself and post the results for others reference, soon.
 
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mridulgoel

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Hi Mridul

I don't quite understand what you are suggesting here. Why would not anyone want to understand the history of the company or products esp. in HiFi? Quality has to be a major consideration as well.

Also, which brands has Q Acoustics been compared against and results published that leads you to state that no other brand can be compared to this at the price range?

I understand your enthusiasm in support of the brand but it should not be at the cost of not considering others.

Buddy

I would like to invite you to have a demo of Q Acoustics, as per your convinience...

If you have been following my posts earlier, i am not brands specific in my suggestions, i am nt here to sell my products...i m here to suggest and thts wt i hv been doing for so long...

Now, the Q Acoustics 1050i has been neck to neck compared with the following brands :

Polk Audio(RTi-A5) vs Q Acoustics(1050i) - Cambridge-640A - Monster Speaker Switcher - DAIYO Speaker Cables

Wharfedale(Diamond.9.6) vs Q Acoustics(1050i) - Marantz-6000series - Moster Speaker Switcher - DAC Speaker Cables

Mordaunt Short (Avant-9.6i) vs Q Acoustics(1050i) - Cambridge-640A - QED Speaker Switcher - Speaker Cables Unknown

JBL(E-80) vs Q Acoustics(1050i) - HK Integrated Amp - Local Speaker Switcher - DAIYO Speaker Cables

These were the four companies with whome we did the neck to neck comparison, and my statement was according to these only as, these are the four brands which move quite good in that budget range...
Yes we even did the comparison with KEF-iQ Series, Polk LSi, and a few more, but there obviously it was not that good...
So as per there prices, and the same configs. the above post was done...

So, i request you to please take an appointment, and we will provide you the demo, for you to feel the difference...
 
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shyamal

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given Mridul's such strong views on the subject, I think for the benefit of the members it will be useful to get the views of venkatcr and other senior members of the forum on-
1) is Q acoustics the best in that price range- better than wh, Polk etc etc
2) does it matter if a speaker company has been in business for 5 yrs vis a vis some co which has been selling speakers for decades (like wharfedale)

Thanks
 
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particleman

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Thanks particleman.
Could you let me know which are the AVRs support these features and are otherwise also good and reasonably priced I had shortlisted denon1909 and was under the impression that it supports most of these features, also has 3 hdmi input ports, 1080 upscaling etc

My mistake, Shyamal, I hadn't read your shortlist. You are on the right track.
 
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shyamal

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had a 2nd round of auditions. summary views:
Energy : C500 + surround+s/w - good vfm at 65k but didnt like the sound too much ...seemed too harsh
Polk : Tsi series - again vfm at 70k but against seemed too harsh esp in action scenes (Casino Royale)
KEF iQ5 + surround+s/w - seemed better than Polk - but price arnd 90k doesnt seem vfm..maybe i can combine iQ5 amf centre channel with Wharfedale s/w and surrounds
Monitor Audio - Bronze Series - decent sound detailing, good at low as well as high volumes, music and movies..price around 1L a little outside budget seemed worth a look
B&W- 684 - good but v expy at 1.5L+
System Audio - same as above - price closer to 2L
Wharfedale - seemed decent but a bit soft, "bassy" (unlike Energy and Polk which seemed harsh, as if treble was set v high)
Morel (top spkr co of Israel) - 5.1 sat system - pretty good for its size - price 80k but somehow not too keen on sats anymore
Dali - heard only the towers - highs seemed enhanced, mids and lows not too good.
Athena- cheap speakers - in terms of price (45k for f/s, s/w, surr, cc) and sound


Shortlist:
Monitor Audio Bronze (BR5, BRLCR, BRF, BRW10)
Wharfedale Diamond 9 (9.5, 9CS, 9SR OR 9.2, SW150)
KEF (iQ5, iQ2C, Wh 9SR OR 9.2, SW150) - so a combo of KEF mains and Wharfedale surr & sw
(views on quality of spkrs, prices...?)

AVR - zeroed in on Denon 1909 (as against Yamaha rxv 663) - due to extra HDMI port, better looking, +ve reviews in most sites. (Does Denon 1909 ok with the above 3 spkr sets, price views..)

Cables - Bandridge 16G for surrounds, Supra or QED or Audioquest 14G for fronts, Chord 3mts Crimson for S/w (is it ok for the above spkrs/avr - also what are the correct prices...?)

Views from senior members greatly appreciated on the above.

Cheers
 
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shyamal

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Also, heard PSB Alpha (T45 Image, C40, etc) - sounded reasonably good -the price seemed a little inflated (1.2Lw/o negotiaition)
 
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For excellent sound that won't break the bank, the 5 Star Award Winning Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Bookshelf Speakers is the one to consider!
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