On transports

[jai1611]

I am currently using LG Cheap Bluray->Vdac2->NAD C316Bee-KEF Q700.I guess its better to first upgrade the amp for quality improvement and later go for a CD player.

If CDs are your primary source, a dedicated CD player may make more sense (preferably one with digital inputs to support computer audio etc).

The amp does seem a bit overmatched by those speakers. I know the Kefs can be quite transparent so should benefit from a better amp.

 

[square_wave]

Joshua and 2chFreak,


Couple of questions?

1. How was the computer based gear setup when you did this comparison?
2. Was the file a downloaded pristine version or an extracted one ?

 

[2chFreak]

1. How was the computer based gear setup when you did this comparison?

Apple Mac Mini w/SSD > Sonic Studio Amarra > M2Tech hiFace > DAC

2. Was the file a downloaded pristine version or an extracted one ?

File transferred from Recording Studio's Server to portable HDD & then transferred to mac mini's SSD.
example 1 : Stockfisch Records (Germany)
example 2 : 2L (Norway)

Files were 24Bit/96k or 192k FLACs.
Same files on CDs (for comparison) were on DVD-A discs played using Universal Disc Transport from Esoteric > DAC

 

[gobble]

Dr. Bass, Doesnt the Acoustic Portrait transport use Philips cd pro2m?

Yes they do and it is superb!

At the price, it (or any transport) is only worth it if it reads flacs, mp3s, sacd, all 24 and 16 bit tracks and also a usb connector for reading thumb drives or portable players along with a readout of the tracks.

I would buy it if it fulfilled these features.

IMHO
--G0bble

 

[malvai]

Apple Mac Mini w/SSD > Sonic Studio Amarra > M2Tech hiFace > DAC




File transferred from Recording Studio's Server to portable HDD & then transferred to mac mini's SSD.
example 1 : Stockfisch Records (Germany)
example 2 : 2L (Norway)

Files were 24Bit/96k or 192k FLACs.
Same files on CDs (for comparison) were on DVD-A discs played using Universal Disc Transport from Esoteric > DAC

did you use an earbud prior to the comparison! ;-) just kidding!

CD Transports just sound dated.... i personally listen to something even more dated - Vinyl.... CD just dont cut ice with me... but the newer 24/192 or 24/96 or the 24/88.2 sound way way superior to any cdp... even through a mid-fi Wyred4Sound Dac 2!

 

[2chFreak]

even through a mid-fi Wyred4Sound Dac 2!

Rick Cullen's work of art ... with a lot of maal for da buck

 

[square_wave]

Apple Mac Mini w/SSD > Sonic Studio Amarra > M2Tech hiFace > DAC




File transferred from Recording Studio's Server to portable HDD & then transferred to mac mini's SSD.
example 1 : Stockfisch Records (Germany)
example 2 : 2L (Norway)

Files were 24Bit/96k or 192k FLACs.
Same files on CDs (for comparison) were on DVD-A discs played using Universal Disc Transport from Esoteric > DAC

Computer playback has progressed quite a bit. Here is a good example of someone who is pushing the limits. Unless we really try out a much optimised setup for computer, it is very difficult to come to conclusions.
Home : Empirical Audio

 

[malvai]

Rick Cullen's work of art ... with a lot of maal for da buck

Can you elaborate please!

 

[2chFreak]

Can you elaborate please!

Rick Cullen, owner of Cullen Circuits in CA, did major mods work for some of the top branded audio gear for 3 decades. He developed mods that pushed audio equip far beyond their standard capabilities & these were acceptable to the manufacturers since the manufacturers designed & built those gears to a certain price they felt correct. Mods to boost performance was not in their scope.

Cullen Circuits wound up very recently just a cpl yrs back & Rick is the owner of Wyred4Sound. Now, when they build stuff, with 30 yrs of mods work, they know exactly wht to put in to make the gear a cracker in the performance area & also price it right with the competition. So, its a big time bang for the buck.

Rick is very well respected.

 

[malvai]

Generally speaking I know what you are talking about. It's the specifics that I was curious about. Apart from the fact that in the W4S's designs there ate no op amps, I have not really figured out the differentiators...

Having said that... And having heard other Dac's like the pd mpd5 I feel that the w4s Dac 2 is just a shade lower at a LOT lower price. The price to performance ratio, IMHO, to my ears is very freakin high.

 

[Dr.Bass]

At the price, it (or any transport) is only worth it if it reads flacs, mp3s, sacd, all 24 and 16 bit tracks and also a usb connector for reading thumb drives or portable players along with a readout of the tracks.

I would buy it if it fulfilled these features.

IMHO
--G0bble

Why do you have to pay so much to get these features, I suppose any half decent SACD player will accomodate all these formats and will cost much lesser. BTW, most high end "CD transports" are CD only transports and that includes Philips, CEC, Esoteric, 47 Labs, JVC (Reimyo), Sony. And all these costs many times more than Acoustic portrait (not necessarily sound better).

 

[2chFreak]

Generally speaking I know what you are talking about. It's the specifics that I was curious about. Apart from the fact that in the W4S's designs there ate no op amps, I have not really figured out the differentiators...

Having said that... And having heard other Dac's like the pd mpd5 I feel that the w4s Dac 2 is just a shade lower at a LOT lower price. The price to performance ratio, IMHO, to my ears is very freakin high.

it can get a whole lot better when you ask the right ppl to do that for you for an xtra sum

 

[jls001]

Joshua and 2chFreak,


Couple of questions?

1. How was the computer based gear setup when you did this comparison?
2. Was the file a downloaded pristine version or an extracted one ?

My music PC is a very dated Core2Duo running at 1.8 GHz, but with memory upgraded to 4GB and running Windows 7. It runs foobar2000 with WASAPI, no equalizer.

Sound card is RME Hammerfall 9632 that does 24 bit at 192 kHz. It is possible to use optical Toslink, digital SPDIF, AES/EBU digital, or balanced or unbalanced analog outputs. I use AES/EBU output. The cable is home brewed - 9 pin D at sound card end, Belden 110 ohms digital cable, terminated in a Neutrik XLR male at the other end.

'DAC' is my CD player (Audio Aero Capitole Reference SE). It does internal upsampling to 32 bit 192 kHz.

My usual comparison is between my own rips from my CDs (using EAC) with the CD itself. I believe that there is some amount of quality degradation during rips. This sounds counter intuitive, because bits are bits and one either gets a one as a one, or none at all. This horse has endured many a good flogging on this forum but steadfastly refuses to die.

I have very few albums which are 'factory made' high res, but not fair to compare with Red book CD version.

Another apple-to-orange comparison I indulge in is between vinyl and digital.

 

[malvai]

it can get a whole lot better when you ask the right ppl to do that for you for an xtra sum

hmmm... would love to try this. any pointers in what mods and by whom?

 

[bhagwan]

At the price, it (or any transport) is only worth it if it reads flacs, mp3s, sacd, all 24 and 16 bit tracks and also a usb connector for reading thumb drives or portable players along with a readout of the tracks.

I would buy it if it fulfilled these features.

IMHO
--G0bble

Sir,
I need to understand a small thing - 2 things actually.
Both are marked in red - let me try and phrase my question :-
a]
Even if you have a SACD Transport how will you take a Digital Out from it ?
b]
No SACD / CD Transport can read any 24 bit material. It will have to be a DVD Drive. Any DVD Drive will not read SACD - At least that is what I think.

Please do shed some light on what Transport you want ? Who Makes it ? Where it can be got from ?
I have never come across 1 like this;
SACD Forum Protocol does not permit non-encrypted Digital Data to leave any SACD Transport - again, I am not 100 % certain, so do correct me if my information is incorrect.

Thanks.

 

[bhagwan]

My music PC is a very dated Core2Duo running at 1.8 GHz, but with memory upgraded to 4GB and running Windows 7. It runs foobar2000 with WASAPI, no equalizer.

Sound card is RME Hammerfall 9632 that does 24 bit at 192 kHz. It is possible to use optical Toslink, digital SPDIF, AES/EBU digital, or balanced or unbalanced analog outputs. I use AES/EBU output. The cable is home brewed - 9 pin D at sound card end, Belden 110 ohms digital cable, terminated in a Neutrik XLR male at the other end.

'DAC' is my CD player (Audio Aero Capitole Reference SE). It does internal upsampling to 32 bit 192 kHz.

My usual comparison is between my own rips from my CDs (using EAC) with the CD itself. I believe that there is some amount of quality degradation during rips. This sounds counter intuitive, because bits are bits and one either gets a one as a one, or none at all. This horse has endured many a good flogging on this forum but steadfastly refuses to die.

I have very few albums which are 'factory made' high res, but not fair to compare with Red book CD version.

Another apple-to-orange comparison I indulge in is between vinyl and digital.

Sir,
Genuine Suggestion.
Stop buying TT's & Tone Arms & Breaking Cartridges.
Invest 40K in a Top End Computer.
Your Current Sound Card costs more than you CPU.

Get the Computer game right - it plays well, trust me....No 2 ways about it.

 

[2chFreak]

Sir,
Genuine Suggestion.
Stop buying TT's & Tone Arms & Breaking Cartridges.
Invest 40K in a Top End Computer.
Your Current Sound Card costs more than you CPU.

Get the Computer game right - it plays well, trust me....No 2 ways about it.

+1 ... :clapping: ... :yahoo:

 

[raz_737]

My music PC is a very dated Core2Duo running at 1.8 GHz, but with memory upgraded to 4GB and running Windows 7. It runs foobar2000 with WASAPI, no equalizer.

Sound card is RME Hammerfall 9632 that does 24 bit at 192 kHz. It is possible to use optical Toslink, digital SPDIF, AES/EBU digital, or balanced or unbalanced analog outputs. I use AES/EBU output. The cable is home brewed - 9 pin D at sound card end, Belden 110 ohms digital cable, terminated in a Neutrik XLR male at the other end.

'DAC' is my CD player (Audio Aero Capitole Reference SE). It does internal upsampling to 32 bit 192 kHz.

My usual comparison is between my own rips from my CDs (using EAC) with the CD itself. I believe that there is some amount of quality degradation during rips. This sounds counter intuitive, because bits are bits and one either gets a one as a one, or none at all. This horse has endured many a good flogging on this forum but steadfastly refuses to die.

I have very few albums which are 'factory made' high res, but not fair to compare with Red book CD version.

Another apple-to-orange comparison I indulge in is between vinyl and digital.

My experience tells me that this is not a problem with CDRip.Music played from computer is inferior to the same wave files played from a CD player.If your CD player has USB support or if you have any cheap DVD player with USB support,play the same wave files through USB and they sound much better than the computer.

This is what i observed from my experience.Please try it yourself and let us know your observations.

 

[grubyhalo]

Sir,
I need to understand a small thing - 2 things actually.
Both are marked in red - let me try and phrase my question :-
a]
Even if you have a SACD Transport how will you take a Digital Out from it ?
b]
No SACD / CD Transport can read any 24 bit material. It will have to be a DVD Drive. Any DVD Drive will not read SACD - At least that is what I think.

Please do shed some light on what Transport you want ? Who Makes it ? Where it can be got from ?
I have never come across 1 like this;
SACD Forum Protocol does not permit non-encrypted Digital Data to leave any SACD Transport - again, I am not 100 % certain, so do correct me if my information is incorrect.

Thanks.

Sorry to butt in, but I think Gobble may have meant 'DSD' files that are available and not SACD per se. On a different note, I know of 2 ways 2 tap the contents from an SACD however, they involve a bit of DIY.

1. You can use a 1st gen. PS3, which does not have an upgraded firmware, to output a PCM version of the DSD information stored in the medium.

2. You can tap the DSD line from some DVD players (Denon x9x0 series, Oppo 980, etc) and output it to a DSD DAC (like the Saber DACs, for one) to get good sound for not a lot of money...

 

[2chFreak]

Music played from computer is inferior to the same wave files played from a CD player.

If your CD player has USB support or if you have any cheap DVD player with USB support,play the same wave files through USB and they sound much better than the computer.

Sir
why would you hook up the CD drive using a USB ? Which is inferior.

You would use sPDIF RCA/BNC or AES-EBU XLR as the preferred interface.