Playback designs

[longshanks]

Yes audition is the key, also try to audition prism audio Orpheus as well all with all other other DAC recommendations the members have given,Orpheus IMO is an amazing DAC at any price level so forget the price ranges and just audition all these DAC's with an aim of buying a great source which you fell will suit your taste and serve you well for years to come

 

[prem]

Hi Sidvee

I have not heard the Prism Audio Orpheus but have heard the Prism Audio DA2. Probably the best DAC i have heard. Incredibly musical with abundance of details. The DA2 is out of your budget. Hence did not recommend it. The Yamamoto DAC with USB option might be an interesting option. Metrum Hex is also a very very good option.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Not sure what links I can post here (mods please delete if this is an inappropriate link)

DSD-Ready DACs (a short list) | AudioStream

I think that link may be posted here already. I know I found it recently, and immediately got ...depressed. DSD, it seems, at least for now, is for the wealthy :sad:

 

[kriant]

Interesting obsevation;
I owned the Ayon Skylla [1st piece in India - I think] - Gerhad is a friend [Ayon]
& I also got the 1st MP-5 into Mumbai - 2nd into India & have heard them both extensively & I am not so sure if the 2 dac's sound the same - then again these are my observations;;;
My Two Bits i.e. !!

Qualifications are in order I suppose.

So let me begin by saying that this is a SUPERB DAC that does a lot of things well. I have ofcourse spoken of the beguiling midrange. Female and Male voices were superb. I heard Safe Trip Home by Dido, Zucchero and Livingstone Taylor. No chinks.

Soundstaging and Imaging were fantastic. I neglected to mention this in m y last post. Imaging is etched and Sound Staging was Deep and Wide.

Now for the nits. My comment on the high frequency are with specific reference to Jack DeJohnette's brush work with Keith Jarrett. Thought that that last bit of detail and finesse was missing.

On Stimela, on that percussive finale towards the end, I thought that the bite and slam was missing. Also Hugh Masekela's voice was shorn of it's rasp and agony. He sounded more like a crooner doing a standard in a NY bar rather than a exile lamenting about the evils of Blood Diamond Mining in Apartheid infested SA.

For my money I thought that this DAC did not live up to its weighty reputation. IMHO.

 

[sidvee]

Yes audition is the key, also try to audition prism audio Orpheus as well all with all other other DAC recommendations the members have given,Orpheus IMO is an amazing DAC at any price level so forget the price ranges and just audition all these DAC's with an aim of buying a great source which you fell will suit your taste and serve you well for years to come

Thanks Longshanks. I did audition the orpheus in my setup. It is an excellent DAC, especially when used as a preamp. However I prefer the Cd2s DAC in the context of my system. Also the reason I am looking at prices is to be able to establish a benchmark so as to look at DAC's in that range. As you can see pricing varies from $3k to $30k, so is the $30k DAC 1000% better than the $3k one?
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Just to put pricing into perspective (US retail):

1. PD MPD3 - $6500
2. Ayon Skylla II - $8500
3. PD MPD5 - $13000

So the MPD5 is the best, fine but it is also the most expensive (100% more than 3 and 55% more than skylla II). I am looking at DAC's in the skylla range. And if I do consider the MPD5, then I should also audition the DCS debussy which is cheaper.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[bhagwan]

Just to put pricing into perspective (US retail):

1. PD MPD3 - $6500
2. Ayon Skylla II - $8500
3. PD MPD5 - $13000

So the MPD5 is the best, fine but it is also the most expensive (100% more than 3 and 55% more than skylla II). I am looking at DAC's in the skylla range. And if I do consider the MPD5, then I should also audition the DCS debussy which is cheaper.
Cheers,
Sid

Correct;

puremusicgroup

The DAC is listed @ 13K & the SACD Player @ 17/- K
A used piece @ 350/-K INR is available in India.

The dCS is Good.
But do remember that the dCS Scarlatti & the MPD-5 were played against each other along with the EMM Labs & the dCS sounded the 'best' to 'our' ears.
All said, the PD was a close 2nd not far behind & that too @ 1/5th the price of the 60K US Scarlatti.

So save & spend more - only buy the MPD-5 not the 3 - please...

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Sidvee
The Yamamoto DAC with USB option might be an interesting option.

I didn't know Yamamoto DAC now has an USB option. It is an interesting proposal in the mix. It is the cheapest among the lot ($3000) and yet should easily be considered in the leagues of Skylla. Couple of Yamamoto products that I have heard have all taken me aback with their amazing combination of neutrality and musicality. He may not be a Kondo or Shindo but definitely in the next tier.

 

[sidvee]

Correct;

puremusicgroup

The DAC is listed @ 13K & the SACD Player @ 17/- K
A used piece @ 350/-K INR is available in India.

The dCS is Good.
But do remember that the dCS Scarlatti & the MPD-5 were played against each other along with the EMM Labs & the dCS sounded the 'best' to 'our' ears.
All said, the PD was a close 2nd not far behind & that too @ 1/5th the price of the 60K US Scarlatti.

So save & spend more - only buy the MPD-5 not the 3 - please...

Thanks Bhagwan. I will try to audition and then make a decision.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

I read about a USB DAC on the Yamamoto site a couple of months back. Have not heard it but going by previous experience with Yamamoto, thought it was worth recommending. I just checked the pricing. Its about $350. So i really do not know what this is.

 

[longshanks]

As you can see pricing varies from $3k to $30k, so is the $30k DAC 1000% better than the $3k one?
Cheers,
Sid

That exactly was my point, Orpheus costs around 5K - 6K dollars and it could sound better than DAC's that cost 2 or 3 times more so the point i was trying to make is more money spent does not always grantee better products,at least that has been the case in my experience of buying and listening to various audio related products.

I didn't know Yamamoto DAC now has an USB option.

I read about a USB DAC on the Yamamoto site a couple of months back. Have not heard it but going by previous experience with Yamamoto, thought it was worth recommending. I just checked the pricing. Its about $350. So i really do not know what this is.

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/YDA-02-news-E.html

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/YDA-02-E.html

It costs 314 (28,000yen) dollars in japan.

 

[bhagwan]

Thanks Bhagwan. I will try to audition and then make a decision.
Cheers,
Sid

100 % correct approach;

Ask Audire to send the 2 DAC's to you. 3 & 5 [I prefer the 5 BTW]
Also request ARN to send the Skylla II [Ayon] to your place.

Listen tot he 3 pieces - 4 days.
Ask a few audiophile friends to come over.

Then decide what is 'preferred' by you.

While you are at it - also get the Firewire DAC & compare it - should puts things out in the open & you
will know where you stand & what is liked by you...

 

[Dr.Bass]

That exactly was my point, Orpheus costs around 5K - 6K dollars and it could sound better than DAC's that cost 2 or 3 times more so the point i was trying to make is more money spent does not always grantee better products,at least that has been the case in my experience of buying and listening to various audio related products.








YDA-02 news-E

YDA-02-E

It costs 314 (28,000yen) dollars in japan.

Some confusion here. I was referring to this DAC, which is their reference DAC:
Featuring no-feedback single output circuit with a single transistor

It doesnt have USB input (which is a bit sad)

 

[bhagwan]

Sir,

I did not want to comment on this - however, since it has been posted here - I will write just 1 comment on it;

a]
When the price of a component goes up - the performance of it also goes up - generally

b]
If you put 2 different priced components into the same set up - they will sound different - however, just to illustrate - if the 2 DAC's are priced @ 6K & 13K will the 13K DAC sound 120 % 'better than the 6K DAC ?

c]
The answer lies in the rest of the chain.

d]
The Best way to find out is to go 'downwards'
Move from a top end system to a mid fi system & then compare the 2 components.
You will not hear a difference between the 2 DAC's [as I have mentioned above] if you were to play them in a mid fi set up - they will sound very close to each other [say a NAD & a PSB just to shoot off a name] - the 2 DAC's of 6 K & 13 K respectively.

e]
When the overall quality of performance of your set up goes north - the source too needs to go north & then what people call diminishing margin etc. comes into the equation;;;

All said, top end components - need top end partners for them to show them selves. I have experienced this 1st hand - several times.

The biggest problem is - assume a persons audio set up is a solid 7/10 & he has to audition 2 DAC's - 1 of them being a 6/10 performer & the other being a 9/10 performer & the difference in price of the # 2 is 300 % ++
When the 2 DAC's are played - the difference cannot be heard - simply because the systems overall ability is a 7/10 - The final flow of the pipe is 100 % dependent on the narrowest part in the tubing [maximum pressure - minimum flow] !
However the same DAC's if were compared in a set up that played @ 8.5 / 10 then the diff would be stark & it would not take long to decide what one needs to get.

Therefore I say :-

System Matching
Budget Allocation
Maximizing ones room & components

This is all very very important.
Buy all components that can work with each other & compliment the performance [up lift the overall performance]
It is a 'team-effort' & if you have 3 star runners & 1 slow person in the team - the chance of that team doing well gets diminished a lot;
Just my 2 bits - sorry for the long post.....
Conversely if you add Usain Bolt into a 4 X 100 relay team with 3 runners from a collage level sprint team - that team will not win the National Relay; Yes, UB will run faster than all others - but he cannot make up for 3 slow runners that loose 3 seconds per 100 meters against the other National Level Runners - so I feel - sorry for the obscure example...

 

[Dr.Bass]

Good one Bhagwan.
Interesting thing to note is upgrades are not as easily noticeable as a downgrade.

 

[bhagwan]

Good one Bhagwan.
Interesting thing to note is upgrades are not as easily noticeable as a downgrade.

Sir,

No one can talk about that more eloquently than me;

dCS Scarlatti to DAD

Cadence Canasya to Accuphase Integrated

All Down Hill & how ----

It is only when you move 'south' do you respect the 'sun' that shined when you were 'north' !!

:sad:

 

[arj]

Good one Bhagwan.
Interesting thing to note is upgrades are not as easily noticeable as a downgrade.

So true..this is my favourite (ie most effective) test even if it about checking a quality of a recording OR a cable. sometime both switches sound like an upgrade and you know its a lateral shift rather than an upgrade and that there has to be something better than both which needs to be considered

 

[arj]

Sir,
a]
When the price of a component goes up - the performance of it also goes up - generally

.

I am Not really experienced enough in true high end to comment but to put another perspective, Not All high cost components may sound like High end but to want true high end sound you do need to pay big bucks (Unless you are able to DIY..)

 

[bhagwan]

(Unless you are able to DIY..)

This I have never experienced;
I could never DIY - except my Oyaide Euro Socket Distribution Board.
I do not have axcess to CNC Cutters. No Gear for Testing etc.
Therefore DIY Result can never be 'vetted' - so I feel & hence there is always an element of 'doubt' in ones mind...
I prefer Main Stream Audio - Listen & Decide [Comparison / Audition] !!

 

[sidvee]

Respected Fm's,
I am of the camp that the biggest factor for great Sound Quality is a Great room & proper/scientific acoustic treatment. Without this as a basic step everything else is secondary and unfortunately the most ignored. Without proper acoustics a $200k system can sound worse than a $2k system. Biggest culprit - overblown, overbearing bass.
Cheers,
Sid