Playback designs

[kriant]

Spot on!

I have an example that bears testimony to this principle. A very close friend decided to go for the Spatial Set up thinking that he would be able to overcome the deficiencies of his listening room - a square with concrete walls, a false ceiling and French windows on either side.While doing the initial measurements it became apparent, to both Clayton and my friend that they were dealing with a room of mirrors.In other words a complete acoustic nightmare.

My frind was left with no option but to go in for basic room treatment in order for Clayton to take over with the Spatial Suite.

The system - EP 2.3 + W4S & Modwright amps + Prism Orpheus + 2 Black holes. ( bass cancellation boxes) + Mac Mini now sounds like a million bucks. Open, detailed, laser sharp etching of accoustic imaging, wide and deep soundstage, stunning macro and micro detailing...

I have heard this very system (without the Spatial Suite) before and after the treatment and I can tell you that the difference is night and day.

Cheers,

 

[bhagwan]

My worst audio experiences were all in badly treated room even though gears were superb. IMO, unless the room is obviously playing devil in some areas of music playback one would be very content with simple room treatment solutions.

State of the Art in D.C. | The Absolute Sound

Please do try and go through this thread.
This is what I mean - when I say 'good' room !
hyeah:

 

[prem]

Hi Bhagwan

Thanks for the link. All i can say is Wow. Bhagwan, since you have heard the Audio Exotics showroom in HK, is their room also designed using similar principles?

 

[bhagwan]

Hi Bhagwan

Thanks for the link. All i can say is Wow. Bhagwan, since you have heard the Audio Exotics showroom in HK, is their room also designed using similar principles?

Interesting;
How do you know that I visited J Lam's Room ?

To get back to your question, I did not like that room.

He has done his Power Supply very well, one of the best I have ever seen or heard - however, the basic dimensions of that room is way too small for the gear he places & plays in it....

The Kaiser Kaweru room in Regensburg - Germany is the Best Room I have ever seen / visited / heard - very well done....Excellent i.e.
Rooms of that kind cost 50 K Euro's ++ to build [on the lower side]
Mr. Weber has shown me rooms that he has built for his clients & they are simply stupendous - I need to look for those pics [if I can find - I will post it] !!

There are better room in HK to listen to to - most are on Duddle [forgive my spelling] Street [Cebtral] !! The Magico / FM Acoustics room is good !

 

[prem]

Thanks Bhagwan. You told me you had visited the Audio Exotics show room. I can understand placement of diffusers, traps, resonators, etc will be scientifically done, using measurements. But the basic room design would follow a standard set of principles, right?

 

[bhagwan]

Thanks Bhagwan. You told me you had visited the Audio Exotics show room.
I can understand placement of diffusers, traps, resonators, etc will be scientifically done, using measurements. But the basic room design would follow a standard set of principles, right?

Oh ! Okay, I do not remember [talking about J Lam's room] ! Sorry;

To be truthful to you - my idea of room acoustics is below par - I am not a science person & these things could never be understood by me - in my older room all this was tried - but I found my newer room - with nothing in it & all audio principals being broken sounding better [to my ears at least] !

Truthfully, get an audio professional - acoustician to come in & measure & make a room - that way it is done by the book & things below 300 hertz can be done correctly, most things above that can be 'tuned' with 'superficial' add on's [so I feel] !

 

[prem]

Thanks Bhagwan. Will consider it seriously if and when i can move my system to a dedicated room. Right now, its in my living room. Cannot mess around with it.

 

[sidvee]

Coming back to Dac discussion, I am also considering the option of Berkley audio designs alpha Dac, which I want to audition on a trip to the states during spring. Heard a lot of good things about this from users. If I like and get this Dac, then I will keep my Ayon 2s and use as a Cd Transport.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Sidvee,
I would have loved to suggest the AMR dac for an audition as well..but sadly not available in india. It is not apparently a master at bringing out details but has a very pronounced focus on tone/timbre and harmonics ( All this admittedly Hearsay ..)

 

[reignofchaos]

The AMR seemingly has two completely different signal paths for 16/44 and high resolution material. The former uses a Philips TDA 1543 based non oversampling design. The latter uses a different chip. Might be worth a listen but I'm not sure if you'll like philips chip based DACs after living for so long with an ayon.

 

[bhagwan]

Do you guys like AMR ?
I have heard it a few times & it never took my fancy;

 

[sidvee]

Sidvee,
I would have loved to suggest the AMR dac for an audition as well..but sadly not available in india.

Actually Arj, as ,you may know most of the DAC's discussed here are only available against order, Dealers do not even stock them in their showroom's. Consequently I am planning to audition as many as I can during overseas trips planned this year. So my buying decision will be slowed down till I am comfortable with my purchase. I will continue using my Cd2s as a DAC till such time that I can find a replacement, and just to add that I am quite happy with the way it is performing so I am not overtly anxious to replace it.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Do you guys like AMR ?
I have heard it a few times & it never took my fancy;

Bhagwan, what was its primary weakness at that price range ? was it the tonal quality or in terms of details ?

 

[bhagwan]

Bhagwan, what was its primary weakness at that price range ? was it the tonal quality or in terms of details ?

Truly speaking, I always heard the AMR with rather exp gear & it never sounded correct - so I blamed it on the AMP.
Actually the AMR may be OK & the gear I heard it with may not have match correctly & therefore the end result was not good - to my ears at least...
I need to listen to the AMP in a 'familiar' set up with the CD Player changed from A / B to AMR & then take a call - I guess...

 

[arj]

Actually Arj, as ,you may know most of the DAC's discussed here are only available against order, Dealers do not even stock them in their showroom's. Consequently I am planning to audition as many as I can during overseas trips planned this year. So my buying decision will be slowed down till I am comfortable with my purchase. I will continue using my Cd2s as a DAC till such time that I can find a replacement, and just to add that I am quite happy with the way it is performing so I am not overtly anxious to replace it.
Cheers,
Sid

I understand your approach..on the lines of better late than sorry

 

[arj]

Truly speaking, I always heard the AMR with rather exp gear & it never sounded correct - so I blamed it on the AMP.
Actually the AMR may be OK & the gear I heard it with may not have match correctly & therefore the end result was not good - to my ears at least...
I need to listen to the AMP in a 'familiar' set up with the CD Player changed from A / B to AMR & then take a call - I guess...

I understand. As reignofchaos had mentioned this dac has around 3 setting and each of those actually changes the overall sound so both the partnering equipment as well as the setting in the dac make a difference in the overall sound.

Would love to hear your impression in case you do get a chance to listen to it.

 

[bhagwan]

I have the PD Mps 3 which has the transport, attached to my dartzeel and let me tell you its a product to hear its a great music maker
.

Excellent Choice Sir !
How do the Ascendo's Play ?
This is a good machine - although I like the 5 much more...

@ Sidvee - there are so many around.

2 X 5's & 1 X 3 in Mumbai [I know personally]
2 more machines are there - I know the people - but never visited their house.
There is a 5 DAC for sale @ 350/- K
There is 1 more in Bhubneshwar etc. etc.

Why go abroad for a listen - you can do it right here.
Come to Mumbai - with your player & I will take you to 3 houses - do your A / B right there - you will know where you stand....

 

[sidvee]

@ Sidvee - there are so many around.

2 X 5's & 1 X 3 in Mumbai [I know personally]
2 more machines are there - I know the people - but never visited their house.
There is a 5 DAC for sale @ 350/- K
There is 1 more in Bhubneshwar etc. etc.

Why go abroad for a listen - you can do it right here.
Come to Mumbai - with your player & I will take you to 3 houses - do your A / B right there - you will know where you stand....

Thank you kindly Bhagwan. Yes I will consider a visit to mumbai. Want to time it so I can audition the Magico S1's as well, hopeful audire will get a pair to Mumbai soon, now that Magico is making deliveries after the CES intro.
I also wish some of the owners of PD eqpt. write a line or two on their impressions of the sound - especially members here.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[bhagwan]

Yes I will consider a visit to mumbai.
Want to time it so I can audition the Magico S1's as well, hopeful audire will get a pair to Mumbai soon, now that Magico is making deliveries after the CES intro.

I also wish some of the owners of PD eqpt. write a line or two on their impressions of the sound - especially members here.

Sid

a]
S1's will take a while to get here;
There is a huge back order on those...

b]
Why should a PD owner write about their player - they know what they have & are satisfied with it - there is very little they can desire to change it with [withing legit price point] !!
I never wrote about my dCS Scarlatti when I had it - I heard it 'everyday' [instead] !
There are several reviews of the PD - I am sure you have see those....

The KEY is for you to listen to it & decide for yourself - not for others to comment on products that they own - imho...

Call for the DAC to your house - connect it to your set up & do an A / B & then decide....

a = decide your budget
b = decide the competition

Once you have this decided - go about it - I am sure you will make a head way; All the Best !

 

[sidvee]

b]
Why should a PD owner write about their player -
There are several reviews of the PD - I am sure you have see those....

The KEY is for you to listen to it & decide for yourself - not for others to comment on products that they own - imho...

The reason I asked is there appears to be limited reviews - specifically on PBD Dac's. There are a lot of reviews on the players. Secondly I would like to hear from individual owners rather than professional reviewers. Of-course since I am going to spend 3-4 lacs I will listen and take a call, but before I start travelling to places I would like to read what owners feel. BTW I thought forums such as this are for these type of discussions. It seems to be happening in other forums so why not here. My recent high value purchase of the SL Kraft250 was done in the same manner - after reading a lot of individual owner's opinions (in other forums) - and it has worked out very well for me, so why not the same for the PBD?
Cheers,
Sid