Plinth modications- Micro Seikie

[kuruvilajacob]

I was fortunate to get the service of a carpenter who loves doing anything related to improving sound quality. He had modified my Garrards 301s and Lenco earlier and when I played some of music on the modified players, he was inspired to work for my new idler wheelers . A rare Micro Seikie MR103 and a second Lenco Goldring L 75.I have completed my Micro Seikie project and let me once again reiterate that these Idlers when properly damped can be real class. The only concern I had about the Micro Seikie was it's Idler Wheel which was badly worn out.Even with that, it was sounding good. Yesterday, I tried out several other spare Idler wheels I had and to my luck. a particular idler wheel used in one of the old HMV fit the Micro Seikie to the 'T'!. And wow, it sounds absolutely awesome! I have yet to try it with better carts. But it will give the Garrards stiff competition. I have never seen a better engineered bearing and shaft. It moves so free that once the idler is disengaged, it takes a couple of minutes to stop it's rotation. I am excited. Now I know why the Idlers are in such good demand. I will post pics and give you reports on it's performance with better carts etc.
Cheers
kuruvilajacob

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I am attaching a pics of the modified Micro Seikie MR 103

cheers
kuruvilajacob

 

[Hiten]

I have never seen a better engineered bearing and shaft. It moves so free that once the idler is disengaged, it takes a couple of minutes to stop it's rotation.

Very good sign. Just taking a guess is bearing inverted ?
regards

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Very good sign. Just taking a guess is bearing inverted ?
regards

I will have to check that with my technician when he comes next. The motor is quite solid and suspended. I am trying to make the idler rubber a few mm thicker as the HMV idler wheel is much thinner han original one. It may make a huge difference I feel.

kuruvilajacob

 

[Hiten]

Kuruvila,
From the pictures of the shaft it looks like it as it is thicker than regular TTs. If it has a shaft on plinth and platter has hollow shaft which fits over it, than it is inverted. Point of contact being above platter gives stability i think.
regards

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Jacob, I am contemplating moving to a 12" tone arm for my 301. It will need a different plinth. I am thinking of CLD. What ply are you using in any ply decks you have made? Thanks.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Jacob, I am contemplating moving to a 12" tone arm for my 301. It will need a different plinth. I am thinking of CLD. What ply are you using in any ply decks you have made? Thanks.

Dear Gerry,

I use 18 mm Marine plywood of Western India Plywood Co considered to be the best marine plywood available . You can use the best available there. I think century ply would do. If you can isolate the plinth and arm board, it will be even better ie similar to the Thorens 125 arm board. BTW what 12" arm are you considering?

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Hi Jacob, thanks, will search for this. I recently purchased an Ortofon RMG309 (could be RMA 309, a slightly longer arm for shorter cartridges). I had just finished modifying s plinth suited for a 9" arm when this arm turned up, so am tempted to redo everything. I was also thinking of a changeable arm board to allow myself to experiment with different arms.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Kuruvila,
From the pictures of the shaft it looks like it as it is thicker than regular TTs. If it has a shaft on plinth and platter has hollow shaft which fits over it, than it is inverted. Point of contact being above platter gives stability i think.
regards

There is a hollow shaft which fits the spindle and the platter is resting on the hollow shaft. Both the hollow shaft and spindle rotates.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Hi Jacob, thanks, will search for this. I recently purchased an Ortofon RMG309 (could be RMA 309, a slightly longer arm for shorter cartridges). I had just finished modifying s plinth suited for a 9" arm when this arm turned up, so am tempted to redo everything. I was also thinking of a changeable arm board to allow myself to experiment with different arms.

Why don't you also consider Arm Pods . I am designing one for one of my Lenco L 75 . The good thing about them is complete isolation from Table. If you could make two, you can use both arms . I am just thinking how to go about it. I am now considering using the shock absorbers of Bullet bike as arm pod. Just a wild idea. It's very much on the drawing board.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Jacob, Only reason for not considering arm pod is that while in theory there is isolation, there are IMHO some downsides. 1) the arm pod needs isolation from surface vibrations. If the isolation from the surface vibration is not identical to the isolation of the platter then there will be needless micro differences in their handling vibrations. If both are on the same platform, then the relative movement is much lesser, which means better consistency in tracking angle and hence accuracy 2) the placement is a bit error prone. I have not thought through this in sufficient detail. It is a bit advanced, and I would like to take this one step at a time. I also have an SME 3009 II pre improved arm and I could at a later time think of doing an independent arm pod for that. My other TT LP12 is exactly opposite - while I don't have a great arm and cart on that nor plan to, the fact is that it is highly rated and its principle is to mount arm and platter on the same suspension and hence with minimal relative movement.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Gerry, you have a point with respect to differences in handling vibrations in arm pods. Frankly, i did not consider this point. But I would like to try one and see how it does. But plinth modification is a giant step in improving sound quality for players like Garrard 301,401 and Lencos. I am seriously thinking of building a heavier plinth for my Garrard 301 with SME 3012 arm after the improvement I have seen on my other Garrard 301 with SME 3009 fixed headshell model. One can actually elevate them to Super Decks status if properly done.

 

[reubensm]

@kuruvilajacob, of all the TTs you own, which sounds the best to your ears? The 301? Asking out of curiosity? What are your thoughts about the Garrard 4HF? Once my house construction is complete, my next avataar is to indulge in TT upgradation, thanks.

Recently I got to hear an EMT938 and found it to be not so great as we would assume it to be, perhaps was not properly aligned and so on, but paying about 80K (INR) for that was not worth it, by my standards.

 

[prem]

Hi reubensm

The EMT 938 sounds great only when used with its 929 arm and the TSD 15 cartridge. Also the phono stage needs to be modded with the step up transformers that are used in the 948. For Rs 80000 you will not get a fully speced out 938. It will cost over 2 lakhs.

I have not heard many tables but the EMT 938 is killer for the money. It easily plays in the league of Rs 10-15 lakh record players of today.

 

[sachu888]

Hi reubensm

The EMT 938 sounds great only when used with its 929 arm and the TSD 15 cartridge. Also the phono stage needs to be modded with the step up transformers that are used in the 948. For Rs 80000 you will not get a fully speced out 938. It will cost over 2 lakhs.

I have not heard many tables but the EMT 938 is killer for the money. It easily plays in the league of Rs 10-15 lakh record players of today.

+1 I agree with Prem.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Agree with Prem. I estimated that to get a Garrard 301 to that level will cost Rs350k. EMT is just too cool - a single guy professionally sets it up soup to nuts, with perfect matching right down to the last wire, all with high grade parts. You jump straight to the best level it can get to. With a 301, one can have DIY satisfaction, but without professional attention I doubt if it will get to that level.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

@kuruvilajacob, of all the TTs you own, which sounds the best to your ears? The 301? Asking out of curiosity? What are your thoughts about the Garrard 4HF? Once my house construction is complete, my next avataar is to indulge in TT upgradation, thanks.

Recently I got to hear an EMT938 and found it to be not so great as we would assume it to be, perhaps was not properly aligned and so on, but paying about 80K (INR) for that was not worth it, by my standards.

My heavy weight Garrard 301 with SME 3009 arm and Goldring 1006 cart cannot be matched by any of my other TTs. It beats all others hands down and should outshine players costing a few lakhs. That's the opinion of some of my friends. I welcome anyone to come and give their opinion

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Jacob, For the 12" arm, I need around 319mm between pivot and spindle. So I calculated I would need 24x19 inches ply, and six such pieces (Art Dudley used 8 pieces). Des that sound right?

 

[arj]

Why don't you also consider Arm Pods . I am designing one for one of my Lenco L 75 . The good thing about them is complete isolation from Table. If you could make two, you can use both arms . I am just thinking how to go about it. I am now considering using the shock absorbers of Bullet bike as arm pod. Just a wild idea. It's very much on the drawing board.

Hi Kuruvillajacob, are you sure this is a good idea..would like to hear your thoughts on this. from what i could understand, Separate arm pods do insulate the arm from Motor vibrations but feel they could also bring out problems if the Table and the Tonearm have diverse vibration frequencies ?

I am also seriously considering a separate one abut am wondering whether the material should be the same as the plinth or not.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Hi Kuruvillajacob, are you sure this is a good idea..would like to hear your thoughts on this. from what i could understand, Separate arm pods do insulate the arm from Motor vibrations but feel they could also bring out problems if the Table and the Tonearm have diverse vibration frequencies ?

I am also seriously considering a separate one abut am wondering whether the material should be the same as the plinth or not.

Arj,
Frankly, I have never made a separate Arm Pod before. All I know is that the arm pod has to be very heavy and made from some toughened material. I feel using the same material as the original plinth could result in similar vibration frequencies. Just my thought. I am now going to try to mount the arm pod on a plywood base the same as my TT. Let me hear how it sounds. I may try some other base later to see if there is a difference. Do let me know if you can get any info on this Arj