Power cables - am bewildered!

(Boring) explanation of reactance here.

Briefly, it means inductors and capacitors also have a "resistance" besides their inherent inductance or capacitance. (By the same token, an inductor also has some capacitance and a capacitor also has some inductance). The impedance caused by the inductive and capacitive elements in an AC circuit is the reactance.
 
Do you think that "Abbey Road Studio" and "George Lucas Skywalker Ranch Studio" are good studios? And do you consider B&W 800 series, some nice Audiophile grade speakers? Or are they PRO AUDIO as well?

If some studio uses/prefers Home audio speakers, what it has to do with the pro-audio equipment such as mastering mixing desks?


Agreed,
BTW this is the list of Studios/professionals using Shunyata cables (including the iconic Lucas Films Skywalker sound studios):
Shunyata Research: Professional Endorsements
I have and use Shunyata power cords and at-least to my ears they sound superior, though I use mostly entry level cords.
Cheers,
Sid

What would you say when Galaxy Studios uses Meyer Sound speakers & NASA itself uses Meyer Sound M-10 Active monitor which is undisputed champion of near field monitors. Why don't Nasa or Galaxy used B&W.?



If you read my previous posts you would understand under which conditions the power cables makes considerable difference. If you hear difference it simply says alot about the equipment in itself.
 
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NASA probably doesn't care a damn about what equipment is used for playing music :p.


Well they really have something to do with sound, have a look at this then :D

12365_420167441420673_912791556_n.jpg
 
If you read my previous posts you would understand under which conditions the power cables makes considerable difference. If you hear difference it simply says alot about the equipment in itself.

Perhaps I have not understood some of the previous technical discussion, but I'm still bothered by...

... From what you say, certain imperfectly-designed equipment can be improved (or at least changed?) by different power cords. But power cords are not filters. How does that work?

... In a given situation with imperfect equipment, why does the power lead that might offer some correction (if it does) have to be bling-bling-bling?

~o-O-0-O-o-~​


Tangentially (Sorry, Keith :eek:) I not only believe that one must question what one hears, but that that questioning can be the most interesting part of the whole experience: the brain, the most important interconnect of them all.

A couple of days ago, I spent a long evening with friends comparing some DACs. At one point, my reflection on a particular hearing was, "I found myself involved in the music in a completely different way, listening to different things." It was a real, personal and valid experience, but what bothers me is that most of the time, most of us are content to stop there, make our notes about the equipment and move on. I might have forever labelled DAC xyz as being involving in a different, deeper way.

Of course, it is perfectly possible that that was exactly the correct analysis, but certain brain cells called out, "Objection! M'Lord!" and went on to point out to me that I had listened to the same piece of music four or five times, a good, interesting piece of music with sufficient depth to enjoy it four or five times (and more) on the trot --- but, is it not possible that, on so many listening, my senses are going to look for something else each time? Go deeper or get bored?

Experience is experience --- but we need to throw in the question why too.
 
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Assuming we have less than ideal power supply,

1) what effect does the conducted EMI/RFI have on the quality of audio? I mean do they end up distorting the desired audio waveform? Or are they instrumental in raising the noise floor? Or what?

Conducted EMI raises Buzzing in some transformers and yes the noise floor does increase due to distortion in waveform and its higher harmonics.

2) what effect does an RF or EM field, assuming they are in the vicinity of our power carrying cable, have on audio quality when they enter the power supply via induction? I mean do they end up distorting the desired audio waveform? Or are they instrumental in raising the noise floor? Or what?

RFI enters thru Parasitic capacitance formed in inter-winding layers of transformer. Raised Noise-Floor is observed with RFI INGRESS

3) Are spurious inducted EMI/EFIs in the audio band, or beyond? If they are beyond the audio band, do they end up affecting the signal within the audio band by intermodulation?

Some are in Audio Band and some are not. Likewise RFI is not in Audio band, but Humming is in audio band itself. Yes the inter-modulation increases and results in raised IHD levels and masking of subtle details.

4) What effect does distorted waveform (both shape and phase) of the power supply have on audio quality?

Clipped AC Sinewave is worst for transformers as it creates DC-imbalance hence core soft saturates and forms buzz sound. The magnetic field originating from buzzing interferes with the noise floor.


5) as soon as the power supply emerges from the secondary windings of the power supply, they are rectified. Brutally, as someone puts it. So from being a curvaceous sinusoidal AC supply it becomes a boring straight line DC. Does the presense of EMI, RFI, or it being a distorted/corrupted sinusoidal waveform with less-than-perfect phase relation to a sinusoid affect the quality of the DC output of the rectifier? And isn't the filter sufficient to take care of such vagaries?

Depends on the amount of capacitance, amount of RF filtering, shielding present in the power supply. There are lot of variables in play in this.


6) Does the rectifier generate its own noise in the process of switching back and forth between two electrical possible paths for every half cycle?

Yes it does.

I hope this helps
 
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... From what you say, certain imperfectly-designed equipment can be improved (or at least changed?) by different power cords. But power cords are not filters. How does that work?

... In a given situation with imperfect equipment, why does the power lead that might offer some correction (if it does) have to be bling-bling-bling?

Thad,

When you Twist the 2 conductors of a power cable, a phenomena occurs which is called Mutual cancellation of electrical fields of currents passing through that cable due to opposite phase cancellation between fields[direction of current flow is opposed]. This can be done with average cable also. Its a simple thing to do and to achieve. The cancellation of electrical fields helps in various ways , already said in previous posts.
 
Kanwar,
Ooh, now I can understand why you came out with those irrelevant questions as you took it as professional audio systems because you assemble or make those stuff! No offence.
- Venu

With due respect, you sound like as if Kanwar is 'marketing' its products and you are some how exposing this 'with-held' secret:eek:hyeah:

Could you please tell me which pro audio studio uses your equipment please? :lol:

Basically those are just PA systems right? I guess gvenu touched a cord there :lol:


Never thought that our respected forum members would stoop so low. Again funny :licklips:
 
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Yes, I am seeing few sarcastic comments or taking a dig at others. Though I am neither the OP nor the moderator, I would still suggest that we avoid posting such things. The reason is - there are many in this forum (like me) who want to learn something useful and seeing sarcastic posts will only discourage the members. At least till now, I have seen Kanwar explaining things with technical facts and I am yet to see a post countering his argument on technical grounds. Many of us are very much open to hear the other side well. Of course, few have experienced the effectiveness of good power cables and they have posted the same and I respect their thoughts as well. In the end, I wanted to carry the knowledge acquired from this forum and not silly things.
 
Basically those are just PA systems...

I'm probably technically wrong, but I call auditorium/etc sounds systems "PA Systems." This is not a reflection on their capability or refinement, just a reference to the fact that they are meant to fill large areas with sound which is listened to by hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people, rather than one guy in a recliner. Patently, those used for music and drama, etc, have little or nothing in common with those which tell us (when we can make it out) which platform our train is leaving from. Oh, wait... the stuff used in weddings, etc, is not much better, and I've heard plenty of classical music destroyed by such systems --- but at the other end of the scale, it is these systems that bring us the "live" music experience against which we measure the actual fidelity of high-fidelity. Even acoustic music usually reaches our seat in the hall via one of these systems.
Many of us are very much open to hear the other side well.
However dogmatic I may seem about my "side" on this and similar topics, there is always a nagging doubt: just what is happening here; is the impossible possible? if so why? is the effect in the equipment or in the head? OK... nagging doubts :lol:

few have experienced the effectiveness of good power cables

"good" defined how? "Good," for me, continues to be a solid cable, with three twisted conductors terminated in three pins in solidly-built plugs with good connectors of the standard brass/copper type. Or is "good" defined by the marketing?

Which is, ok... :eek: :eek: :eek: back to square one.
 
"good" defined how? "Good," for me, continues to be a solid cable, with three twisted conductors terminated in three pins in solidly-built plugs with good connectors of the standard brass/copper type. Or is "good" defined by the marketing?

Which is, ok... :eek: :eek: :eek: back to square one.

:lol: ha ..ha ... :lol: I am suspecting you are playing the role of Narada now ;)
 
:lol: ha ..ha ... :lol: I am suspecting you are playing the role of Narada now ;)

I have to look him up :eek:

But what I meant was (putting it a different way) that using the word "good" in that context presupposes that the answer to the specialist, fancypants, exotic, etc etc question is yes :eek:hyeah:
 
Steve Hoffman.. arguable but one of the best mastering Engineer/Artists today
Steve Hoffman Info Site | Gear
Steve Hoffman's equipment
Steve does his mastering rehearsal work in his studio, but finishes special projects (such as vinyl cutting and HDCD, SACD, 24K Gold CD) at Stephen Marsh Mastering in Hollywood and The Mastering Lab in Ojai, CA.


Mastering room playback system
J-Corder Custom "Ruby" Technics 1520 tape recorder
Joule Electra LA-200 custom line stage
Concert Fidelity DAC-040 Kensei tube digital to analog converter
Concert Fidelity 6B4G tubed Fusion monoblock amplifiers
VAC Phi 200 monoblock amplifiers
Wavac EC-300B 10 watt single ended triode (SET) amplifier with Western Electric 300B tubes
Modwright Sony 9100ES tubed Platinum Signature Truth SACD/CD player
Rogers BBC LS3/5a speakers (for near field)
Venture Perfection MK IV speakers
Kubala-Sosna Emotion Interconnects, power cords, 20 amp IEC cord, bi-wire speaker cable and internal/external studio wiring

Mastering studio "Pro" gear

Ampex 351-2-P analog (1959)
Ampex AG-440-4 analog (1967)
Tascam D-RW901SL CD recorder
Tascam BR-20 modified open reel tape recorder
Klark-Teknik DN-360 1/3 octave graphic equalizer
George Massenburg Labs GML Model 9500 Series II mastering parametric equalizer
Universal Audio Model 500-A equalizer (stereo pair) (1965)
Teletronix Model LA-2A leveling amplifier (stereo pair)
Urei 1176 Blue Stripe leveling amplifier (stereo pair)
Ampex MX-35 mic/line mixer (1962)
AKG C 414 B-TL II microphones (stereo pair)
KAB/Technics SL1200 modded for 78 RPM playback with Shure V15 Type IV 78 RPM cart
 
OT, but to lighten things up:

arj, I like your signature line. I wonder which category I fall under.

denom, yours too ;)
 
<Crossposted with arj and Keith>

Professional audio guys, whether it is recording, mixing, mastering, performance or whatever, have different criteria (some) and different reasoning behind buying gear. There is stuff in studios which is never seen or advertised or heard of in hifi shops, magazines, etc.

There is an overlap. There is a growing interest in pro and semi-pro gear amongst us domestic listeners, especially in areas such as DAC, ADC, active speakers, headphone amps, etc etc. Some of the companies in that sphere are also extending their ranges with models designed for the domestic market. I am sure there are speaker manufacturers whose products have always been found in both and always will be.

There is another aspect, which is the need of mastering engineers to listen to the results of their work in different ways: they are mixing for the guy with a clock radio as much as they are for the guy with 12-foot-high electrostatic speakers in a treated room.

There is no point in trying to draw a thin, sharp line between domestic- (I'd rather not say "audiophile") and studio-use equipment let alone taking it as a major argument subject.

However...

the "consumer" in the broadcast world is typically an engineer; whether he has that test bench full of gear for testing cable or not, he knows what it is, what it would measure, and how to use it if he has to. Second, the applications are critical; an engineer patching video from one end of a production or broadcast facility to another doesn't want to plug it in, see whether it works or not, and then spend a few hours debugging it. He needs cable to be dependable; he needs every foot of it to be as good as every other foot of it, and if the manufacturer says it'll carry 1080i HD-SDI signals three hundred feet, he needs to be able to rely on that claim when the rubber hits the road. Third, this is very much a nonsense-free market; our engineer-buyer isn't likely to be excited by specious performance claims that can't be measured or documented. He's likely to know which features of a cable are critical--like impedance tolerance, return loss, attenuation relative to the lengths of cable in use--and which aren't. Fourth, he buys a LOT of cable to wire just one production or broadcast facility, and he will not return to a manufacturer who lets him down where quality is concerned.

"Broadcast Quality"-- What does it Mean, and Why is it Good?


This is about signal cables, not power cables, but I'd expect more or less the same practice to apply to any gear or cable bought for pro use.

Yes, this is also from a cable seller. But even if they are trying to sell em something, when that is done with reasonable, verifiable, common-sense-technology claims, I really don't mind.

Do studios use exotic stuff too? Well, if some say that they do, then I suppose that they do, but I doubt that it is common: they have better things to spend their money on.

Of course, it is not impossible that they need to pander to the whims of their customers. No disclaimer needed: you guys already know that I'm cynical about marketing men :D
 
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Fourth, he buys a LOT of cable to wire just one production or broadcast facility, and he will not return to a manufacturer who lets him down where quality is concerned.
Hee! Hee! Hee!
 
OK, Popcorn hour is over. Please let's get back on topic, gentlemen.

But I've put a jumbo bag to pop right now
images


OT, but to lighten things up:

arj, I like your signature line. I wonder which category I fall under.

denom, yours too ;)

Well, it says it all, doesn't it :p Testimony to it is this thread :indifferent14:

There is a growing interest in pro and semi-pro gear amongst us domestic listeners, especially in areas such as DAC, ADC, active speakers, headphone amps, etc etc.

I wonder why??? :cool::p

There is another aspect, which is the need of mastering engineers to listen to the results of their work in different ways: they are mixing for the guy with a clock radio as much as they are for the guy with 12-foot-high electrostatic speakers in a treated room.

There is no point in trying to draw a thin, sharp line between domestic- (I'd rather not say "audiophile") and studio-use equipment let alone taking it as a major argument subject.


This is about signal cables, not power cables, but I'd expect more or less the same practice to apply to any gear or cable bought for pro use.

Lets just say the good folks in the pro industry are fools & simply not knowing what they are doing :rolleyes:


they have better things to spend their money on.

Like buying cheap cables that run for miles 'efficiently' :p

you guys already know that I'm cynical about marketing men :D

With good reason I say :thumbsup:

There is nothing surprising that many home audio lovers have pro audio equipment in their homes as well. :)

Fools again, what the hell are they trying to prove??? :lol:
 
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