Power Chord

[asliarun]

To me, AC is just a fluctuation of sine wave. A fluctuation of 50 time in a second gives you 50hz. How does the cable improve SQ?

In addition, all the AC will then converted into DC before regenerated back as sine wave to the speaker. How does the cable able to alter anything in the chain?

Not to offend anyone, I was trained to think this way.

Things are a bit more complicated than that. Honestly, I too only started becoming more aware of the complexities of a power supply (especially for AC power supplies) after FM Kanwar patiently tried to explain a bunch of this stuff to us in some of his threads.

To quote from the article:

Real power is the capacity of the circuit for performing work in a particular time. Apparent power is the product of the current and voltage of the circuit. Due to energy stored in the load and returned to the source, or due to a non-linear load that distorts the wave shape of the current drawn from the source, the apparent power will be greater than the real power. A negative power factor occurs when the device (which is normally the load generates power which then) flows back towards the device which is normally considered the generator.

Linear loads with low power factor (such as induction motors) can be corrected with a passive network of capacitors or inductors. Non-linear loads, such as rectifiers, distort the current drawn from the system. In such cases, active or passive power factor correction may be used to counteract the distortion and raise the power factor. The devices for correction of the power factor may be at a central substation, spread out over a distribution system, or built into power-consuming equipment.

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Power factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying that power cables act as power factor correction equipment. But surely you can appreciate the fact that an audio amplifier interacts actively with its power source, not passively (i.e. it is not merely a piece of wire with resistance - like a light bulb). Hence, this is a bit more complex than Ohm's law for DC current and impedance.

Perhaps these are some of the contributing reasons why audio equipment setup is so fragile, and why for high resolution systems (and setups), even innocuous changes like power cable swap can cause audible changes to the musical flavor of sound reproduction.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

why audio equipment setup is so fragile

but... is it really? Or does it suit some people to have us believe that it is?

It is not just the power-cable thing: people love to believe that audio data in a PC is not just data, they love to believe that audio signals are somehow impossibly difficult to pass on a cable, either in digital or analogue form without them getting upset. Is any of this actually true?

It is partly because people get so upset at any suggestion that this might actually not be the case, that I am beginning to think that this is is all some sort of neurosis, or hysteria, that disreputable sectors of the industry are very, very happy to profit from.

 

[asliarun]

I do agree with you about people profiting by perpetuating these myths.

I am willing to believe that there can be some audible differences when various components are swapped. My biggest peeve is why no effort has been made to establish reliable and well understood baselines/benchmarks. And because of this deliberate ambiguity, change in sound due to component swap can only be understood as a change. Never a change that is for the better or for the worse. Or more strictly speaking, change that brings you closer to the baseline or farther from it.

And because of this, the pursuit becomes similar to shooting darts in the dark, hoping that something at some point in time will hit bulls eye.

Maybe it is not so for experienced people, but I dare say, only because they have established their own baselines. Which is so subjective! And needlessly so. How can you play football where there is no goal post, or worse, everyone has their own version of what the goalpost is?

An interesting anecdote: the French for the longest time liked to believe in the superiority of their wines. Their claim was their I'll defined and deliberately mystified "terroir", that is, the land and soil and air itself added the magical x factor that made their wines so special.

This myth was eventually shattered when some unknown upstart Napa valley wine makers defeated them soundly in a blind tasting contest. And defeated them again when the French wanted a rematch a few decades later.

And ironically, even something so subjective as wines does rely on blind tasting and proper baselining to define what good wine is, what bad wine is, and what superb wine is.

 

[dheerajin]

Change in sound will be there even if you change the component with the same one, because human brain behaves that way.Different part of brain is activated at different times of the day and same song will sound differently according to that.Thats why people tell you with conviction that they heard a change in sound and most of the time for better because of anticipation.Some power cables with inbuilt filters for electrical noise, sound good, but if you already have clean power then they wont make difference. Anyway it is something like- power transformer in my locality has been changed, so how long shall I wait for the burn in , to sound my system good...[emoji2]
So there cant be any standard baseline to compare.....audiophools will always have one component or the other to blame....and list of component is long..like fuse, quality of air,.etc...

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I am willing to believe that there can be some audible differences when various components are swapped.

I agree, although I find it hardest to believe of power leads --- excepting that, there seems to be some consensus that they might make a difference if there is something wrong with the design of the connected equipment

Change in sound will be there even if you change the component with the same one

I agree with that too. The cables in our brains, as well as simple actually-physical-electrical stuff such as changing cables cleaning contacts, and not returning to quite the same place

because human brain behaves that way.Different part of brain is activated at different times of the day and same song will sound differently according to that.Thats why people tell you with conviction that they heard a change in sound and most of the time for better because of anticipation.Some power cables with inbuilt filters for electrical noise, sound good, but if you already have clean power then they wont make difference. Anyway it is something like- power transformer in my locality has been changed, so how long shall I wait for the burn in , to sound my system good...[emoji2]
So there cant be any standard baseline to compare.....audiophools will always have one component or the other to blame....and list of component is long..like fuse, quality of air,.etc...

And the automatic association of quality with cost has been a big gotcha. I recall beginning to see dealers advising "You should spend 10% of your budget on cables." Why? Why 10%? Does a system of twice the cost need cables of twice the cost? Will they be twice as good? None of this was ever explained, but it paved the way for cables of ten times the cost, one hundred times the cost, one thousand times the cost.

Never do we see an anouncement from a cable company that they have discovered their best cable yet, and it is is half the cost of their previously cheapest. Funny, that, eh?

But I see posts assuming that, as a matter of given fact, an expensive component must be better than a cheap one and that anyone who doesn't hear that must be deaf, blind, dumb and stupid.

It is an easy assumption to make. I used to think much the same, at least about big-name audio. I was put right on this, with examples, by a fellow HFVer. Reality can be tough to get to grips with!

My biggest peeve is why no effort has been made to establish reliable and well understood baselines/benchmarks.

I think there are two possible baselines...

• Transparency. The orignal meaning of "high fidelity."
• Personal preference.

Neither can be argued with. A bass-head does not want transparency, they want thumping in the chest and head. A classical detail freak doesn't want bass thump. Personal choice should rule the day: nobody would paint their house in a colour they hated.

But bass thump, flat, or high-treble detail are not manifestations of the unseen worlds: they are a matter of frequency response. Measurable and demonstrable. Provable.

Isn't the amount of noise carried or filtered by a mains cable measurable too? At least that would demonstrate the cable is doing something, even though it would not show if that something has any effect at all on the equipment or the sound.

 

[sivasarjun]

Is there an option of thanking every post of Thad?Future as well.Especially relating to cables,power chords and the like.
But excluding his Carnatic tastes.Hint-BMK.
How can anynoe one like Vedavalli AND BMK.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Some people hate my posts on cables, power cords and the like! :lol:

How I would love to hear Vedavalli without cables... unamplified, no mic, no speaker. But, although there is as much magic in her voice as there was a decade ago, she is approaching 80 and, stamina still, yes, but volume perhaps not so much.

 

[dheerajin]

Let them hate.... thad....life is too short to do such things...let them waste their time by hating....
We are there to enjoy music..

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

What's nice though, is that, with most of them, we're friends when not talking about cables .

 

[jls001]

The power "chords" I know and love are usually played with the electric guitar, preferably with the Overdrive pedal on. And I'm most partial to these players - Steve Stevens (Billy Idol), Nuno Bettencourt (Extreme), & Ronni Le Tekro (TNT).

(Been resisting this one)

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

(Been resisting this one)

Me too!

I'm glad you could resist no longer hyeah:

 

[sivasarjun]

Guilty my honour.

 

[arj]

(Been resisting this one)

Resistance is not futile in Powerchords ..it adds to the impedance

 

[madbullram]

<edited>are having ears as per their liking...any other person can hear the difference between same cable ...because brain behaves that way...but <edited>will tell world that they are not fools to buy the expensive cables to hear the difference..they are ultra fools..
Ask any electrical and electronic engineer and they will pull down the pants of these self prclaimed audio experts....because these experts wants to sell their cables, which they know dont make any difference.....so its all about sales
And moreovet they want to keep confusion among new comers and make them superstitios, so that there is always a demand for people like modern day baba

All of us have our beliefs and non-beliefs. The forum is a great place to express and discuss but that does not give anyone a right to insult other by using words that would hurt a person. Refrain from coining or calling names like audiophools.

Hope you continue in the right spirit.

Regards,
MBR

 

[madbullram]

Dheeraj: On your request have deleted the posts

 

[keith_correa]

Actually, you don't need to refer to anyone as an "<edited>". Just call them an "Audiophile". Same difference.

 

[dheerajin]

Actually, you don't need to refer to anyone as an "<edited>". Just call them an "Audiophile". Same difference.

I could not stop laughing for nearly 5 mins..post of the month...

 

[arj]

These discussions always hit a chord (perhaps not power !) with Bertram Russell's evergreen quote -"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

There is a similiar one by William Yeats, but the words unfortunately elude me

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Guilty my honour.

It is a mistake I have made often. I'm sure many have.

Resistance is not futile in Powerchords ..it adds to the impedance

But hopefully not to the impudence

All of us have our beliefs and non-beliefs. The forum is a great place to express and discuss but that does not give anyone a right to insult other by using words that would hurt a person. Refrain from coining or calling names like audiophools.

It is better if such things are not aimed at an individual, but the word audiophool is in general usage, and refers to a sort of sickness in the hifi industry and community. As far as I know, it was coined by Ethan Winer, whose writings and video are very instructive.

There has been a long tradition of stuff in this business/hobby that it is worthy of nothing but derision. It used to be rocks and crystals, now it is network, and even SATA cables. Let us deride it. If any individual "believer" takes offence, then that is their problem: let them remain happy with their "beliefs" and avoid these conversations, or let them open their minds. I am not going to be rude to any individual, unless they are rude to me first, but if this thing is really going to be raised to the status of religion, and audiophile sensibilities are not to be offended, I think many of us will just be out of this forum.

Audiophoolery, Ethan Winer, 2005

Audio Myths Workshop, Ethan Winer, 2009.


~

 

[madbullram]

Thad: It really does not matter who invented or the reason. For the given context, I do not think its appropriate and I am sure we have others things to discuss than getting into such petty issues.