Problem in New Pro-ject TT

[krprasoon]

Hi,

My Pro-ject TT, which I had got from UK to Delhi, has started giving problems within 14 days of operation. I had set it up properly after normal due diligence (w.r.t. weight adjustment, tonearm suspension, anti skating etc – no cartridge alignment was involved as it was pre aligned). It was giving superlative soundstage and clarity for the first 14 days and I was literally over the moon with the listening pleasure.

The problem started with the tonearm getting stuck in a single groove and the sound becoming very muddy and lacking depth. Second day onwards the tone arm skids from the edge to the center and the stylus picks up unwarranted fibres, strands etc from the LP. Can experienced FMs help me with resolving the problem or point me in the right direction. I would be really really grateful for any assistance.

Thanks in anticipation. Prasoon

 

[Sean de Silva]

Always play clean LPs. Always clean the stylus before and after every LP. Check that the TT is perfectly levelled.

 

[Bloom@83]

Hi,

My Pro-ject TT, which I had got from UK to Delhi, has started giving problems within 14 days of operation. I had set it up properly after normal due diligence (w.r.t. weight adjustment, tonearm suspension, anti skating etc – no cartridge alignment was involved as it was pre aligned). It was giving superlative soundstage and clarity for the first 14 days and I was literally over the moon with the listening pleasure.

The problem started with the tonearm getting stuck in a single groove and the sound becoming very muddy and lacking depth. Second day onwards the tone arm skids from the edge to the center and the stylus picks up unwarranted fibres, strands etc from the LP. Can experienced FMs help me with resolving the problem or point me in the right direction. I would be really really grateful for any assistance.

Thanks in anticipation. Prasoon

Firstly you haven’t mentioned which Project model this is. Assuming this to be Debut Carbon DC , I can see you are describing two different problems.

1. Your tonearm is skidding from edge to centre: This could be due to counterweight not set right , or somehow it got loose. Readjust the counterweight to the correct tracking value for 2M Red (I set it to 1.8 grams ). Also check the anti skating thread - it should be set into the middle groove, and not the other ones.

2. Your stylus is picking up dirt from LPs :This is a very common issue with both used and new records. Use a good antistatic stylus brush to clean it , in a back to front motion. If you don’t have one handy , you can use a size 0 watercolor brush preferably with white hog bristle (available on Amazon )

 

[krprasoon]

Firstly you haven’t mentioned which Project model this is. Assuming this to be Debut Carbon DC , I can see you are describing two different problems.

1. Your tonearm is skidding from edge to centre: This could be due to counterweight not set right , or somehow it got loose. Readjust the counterweight to the correct tracking value for 2M Red (I set it to 1.8 grams ). Also check the anti skating thread - it should be set into the middle groove, and not the other ones.

2. Your stylus is picking up dirt from LPs :This is a very common issue with both used and new records. Use a good antistatic stylus brush to clean it , in a back to front motion. If you don’t have one handy , you can use a size 0 watercolor brush preferably with white hog bristle (available on Amazon )

It's Debut Carbon Esprit. I have done the intiail set up twice more now. The setting up of weight, hovering the tone arm, setting the front dial to zero, resetting the entire weight dial to 17-18 and then hanging the anti skate. Didn't work.

Also, cleaned the stylus gently with the drawing brush as also the LP. There is some serious issue. Somebody saw the video and advised that the stylus is broken. What I do not understand is how can the stylus be broken so soon. Most of the feedbacks say 1000 hours life at least for 2m red.

 

[analogadikt]

You have probably lost the diamond. If it is a bonded stylus, you shall see the base with naked eye and conclude the diamond is in place, when actually it is not there. I suggest that you inspect the stylus with a high power magnifier.

Regards,

Anwesh

 

[Record Player]

Do you have another cartridge to test with. If you do, plug in the spare cart and do the balancing, alignments etc and test. Try and post some magnified pictures of the OM Red.

 

[reubensm]

it

The problem started with the tonearm getting stuck in a single groove and the sound becoming very muddy and lacking depth. Second day onwards the tone arm skids from the edge to the center and the stylus picks up unwarranted fibres, strands etc from the LP. Can experienced FMs help me with resolving the problem or point me in the right direction. I would be really really grateful for any assistance.

tonearm stuck in a single groove - is it only on this particular record or on all records, if its on a particular record, either that record has a damaged groove or a piece of hard dirt stuck in it. If its on all records at the very same place, then tonearm movement may be impaired (unlikely though)

sound becoming muddy and lacking depth - dirty stylus, which prevents it from sitting properly in the groove, if the stylus does not make proper contact with the groove, the sound becomes muffled, channel imbalance occurs and the overall listening experience deteriorates

skating - for a turntable that is calibrated properly (and everything is working properly), skating occurs when the stylus is too clogged to sit in the groove, it means you are playing dusty and dirty records and your stylus is accumulating muck. The stylus will have to be carefully cleaned and your records of course, need a thorough clean. A skating stylus can cause scratch-damage to your records.

stylus picking up fibers and strands (I suspect dust as well) - you will need an antistatic brush to gently brush your records before playing. when you use a soft cloth to wipe your records, the resulting static electricity causes the record surface to attract fibers and strands from the cloth, which will in turn clog your stylus

all this is very simple to address. clean your records properly, maintain a clean stylus (if records are clean you wont have to clean your stylus every now and then) and use an anti static record brush

happy listening!

 

[Bloom@83]

Record cleaning is a laborious and for me , an enjoyable process. For many it seems to be a nightmare. Whenever I buy used records I usually spend around 2-3 hours wet cleaning and drying them. After that , I use an Audioquest anti static brush to remove any dust every time before playing the record. Even on new records I do the latter part.

 

[entsurgeon]

Hello prasoon. Stay away from playing any valuable or hard to source record right now. While a lost diamond would mean no sound at all, muddy sound may mean slightly unstable diamond on the cantilever. All the above suggestions would see you through but also check for the balance of TT. Resent things from scratch. A broken stylus should not get stuck in one groove but a bad/ dust occluded groove may damage a stylus. The advise about installing any other stylus could be coupled with installing this stylus to some other TT and check for the source of problem in the chain.
Good luck.
Ps: what is your current set up?

 

[krprasoon]

You have probably lost the diamond. If it is a bonded stylus, you shall see the base with naked eye and conclude the diamond is in place, when actually it is not there. I suggest that you inspect the stylus with a high power magnifier.

Regards,

Anwesh

Thanks.

 

[krprasoon]

Do you have another cartridge to test with. If you do, plug in the spare cart and do the balancing, alignments etc and test. Try and post some magnified pictures of the OM Red.

No, I am fairly new in tt. I do not have any other cartridge. I will take a magnified picture tomorrow morning in sun light and post. Thanks.

 

[krprasoon]

it

tonearm stuck in a single groove - is it only on this particular record or on all records, if its on a particular record, either that record has a damaged groove or a piece of hard dirt stuck in it. If its on all records at the very same place, then tonearm movement may be impaired (unlikely though)

sound becoming muddy and lacking depth - dirty stylus, which prevents it from sitting properly in the groove, if the stylus does not make proper contact with the groove, the sound becomes muffled, channel imbalance occurs and the overall listening experience deteriorates

skating - for a turntable that is calibrated properly (and everything is working properly), skating occurs when the stylus is too clogged to sit in the groove, it means you are playing dusty and dirty records and your stylus is accumulating muck. The stylus will have to be carefully cleaned and your records of course, need a thorough clean. A skating stylus can cause scratch-damage to your records.

stylus picking up fibers and strands (I suspect dust as well) - you will need an antistatic brush to gently brush your records before playing. when you use a soft cloth to wipe your records, the resulting static electricity causes the record surface to attract fibers and strands from the cloth, which will in turn clog your stylus

all this is very simple to address. clean your records properly, maintain a clean stylus (if records are clean you wont have to clean your stylus every now and then) and use an anti static record brush

happy listening!

Thanks reubensm. As I said earlier, I am new to the world of tt and lp. This is a 15 days old tt and I have only 7 LPs as of now. All purchased recently. So I don't think, dirt or any such issue would be there. Also I have played all these records on this tt during the first 1t says with astounding results. So I think the probl3m is something else.

 

[Record Player]

No, I am fairly new in tt. I do not have any other cartridge. I will take a magnified picture tomorrow morning in sun light and post. Thanks.

From my experience, muddy sound etc is typically from a misaligned cart, dirty stylus, tonearm not balanced, incorrect tracking weight. As others have mentioned, try cleaning the stylus with a bud and a bit of nail polish remover. Gently swipe outwards. After this, look up a youtube video of proper alignments, tonearm balancing and the right tracking force. Do you have a protractor for the OM Red, use that. If this does not work, see if you can connect with any FMs or friends in Delhi who have working knowledge of TTs and help you out.

Considering your TT went through some transit from the UK to India , you must try the above.

 

[krprasoon]

Hello prasoon. Stay away from playing any valuable or hard to source record right now. While a lost diamond would mean no sound at all, muddy sound may mean slightly unstable diamond on the cantilever. All the above suggestions would see you through but also check for the balance of TT. Resent things from scratch. A broken stylus should not get stuck in one groove but a bad/ dust occluded groove may damage a stylus. The advise about installing any other stylus could be coupled with installing this stylus to some other TT and check for the source of problem in the chain.
Good luck.
Ps: what is your current set up?

Thanks for the thoughts. As it happens, the tonearm is now skidding from edge to center as soon as it is lowered by the cue lever. The first day of the problem (13th) it was sticking in one groove. Next day onwards it simply skids.

My present set up is cambridge audio cxn v2 (also acts as Pre) and CD transport as source, plus this tt, and cambridge 851 w as power Amp. Svs 1000 woofer. Wharfedale diamond 11.4 speakers. Nad c 368 (integrated Amp which was lying unused and had now been taken out for acting as phono stage) as Pre for TT.

Power Amp to network player is connected by AQ MacKenzie balanced cable. Woofer is connected with network player by line AQ red river. CDT to network by QED coaxial. Power to speaker by AQ bi wired.

I have plans to have second setup consisting of TT, nad integrated and BW 606 once this issue is resolved. So tt would be a totally separate system.

 

[krprasoon]

From my experience, muddy sound etc is typically from a misaligned cart, dirty stylus, tonearm not balanced, incorrect tracking weight. As others have mentioned, try cleaning the stylus with a bud and a bit of nail polish remover. Gently swipe outwards. After this, look up a youtube video of proper alignments, tonearm balancing and the right tracking force. Do you have a protractor for the OM Red, use that. If this does not work, see if you can connect with any FMs or friends in Delhi who have working knowledge of TTs and help you out.

Considering your TT went through some transit from the UK to India , you must try the above.

Sure thing. Though I have aligned once on Sunday, maybe I will act on your suggestion again. Project hs given some kind of prptractor on hard paper, don't know how to use it. Will seek guidance from you tube. I had set up the tonearm watching a video on youtube. Considering that it operated fine first 14 days, can be safely concluded that the initial set up was ok. Whatever happened it was in subsequent days. Would re configure tonearm setup (weight and anti skate) and clean as suggested. Will get bavk with the result. Thanks.

 

[sydney]

The arm probably has a skating issue. You need to check tracking weight and anti-skate

 

[reubensm]

On a different note, a TT is not a plug and play device so try to read up as much as you can on it. One can only feel comfortable using a TT if one has the basic know how. That's what makes this medium very different from others like cassettes and CDs. There are lots of resources online which provide a wealth of info. There are 2 levels of knowledge, operational know-how (including basic servicing) and repair know-how. A TT is essentially a very simple device and can be easily mastered. All the very best.

 

[Bloom@83]

Sure thing. Though I have aligned once on Sunday, maybe I will act on your suggestion again. Project hs given some kind of prptractor on hard paper, don't know how to use it. Will seek guidance from you tube. I had set up the tonearm watching a video on youtube. Considering that it operated fine first 14 days, can be safely concluded that the initial set up was ok. Whatever happened it was in subsequent days. Would re configure tonearm setup (weight and anti skate) and clean as suggested. Will get bavk with the result. Thanks.

If it was working fine initially , then this trouble wouldn’t have suddenly cropped up , unless the tonearm \ cartridge or stylus suffered some heavy mechanical shock. You need to reset everything to zero and correctly recalibrate everything exactly as specifications demand.
If you still face the same problem- you better take it to some TT expert or request a HFV TT expert in your area to physically check it. If you were in Kolkata I would have easily recommended one Mr Mandal.

 

[Record Player]

Sure thing. Though I have aligned once on Sunday, maybe I will act on your suggestion again. Project hs given some kind of prptractor on hard paper, don't know how to use it. Will seek guidance from you tube. I had set up the tonearm watching a video on youtube. Considering that it operated fine first 14 days, can be safely concluded that the initial set up was ok. Whatever happened it was in subsequent days. Would re configure tonearm setup (weight and anti skate) and clean as suggested. Will get bavk with the result. Thanks.

Heres a quick video on initial setup - Setup

Ortofon 2m Red Protractor - Using the Protractor in German though

 

[sachu888]

You have probably lost the diamond. If it is a bonded stylus, you shall see the base with naked eye and conclude the diamond is in place, when actually it is not there. I suggest that you inspect the stylus with a high power magnifier.

Regards,

Anwesh

Have you verified the above? Your stylus may have some debris. It should be clearly visible. Post some close up pics here if you can't decide.

Regards
Sachin