Replacement speakers suggestions for Harbeth SHL5
- Thread starter eddie_fox
- Start date
Hi all,
I spoke to AN in Mumbai. He is recommending the AN-J series speakers. I have no way of listening to them in Bangalore. The other option is the Blumenhofers Tempesta 20, which is attractively priced and is, apparently, close to the Big Fun 17s in sound signature and equal in heirarchy.
I listened to some Blumenhofers today. Jochen had brought over the Fun 13s over and we compared the harbeths in my room with them. I must say the Harbeths are refined in certain areas like separation and tonal quality of the mids, but the Blumenhofers, which are less than half the price of the Harbeths were no slugs. In fact, the higher ranges were more refined and overall dynamics were very good. The 13 cm driver were lacking in the lower end compared to the Harbeths, but that was to be expected. The upper bass was still clean and energetic though. So, overall, I realised what the Harbeths were good at, and also what they were lacking. I almost decided to go for the close- to-new Fun 13s Jochen had brought over and was willing to sell at a very attractive price. That would have saved me a good amount after selling the Harbeths.
Anyway, we proceeded to a friend's house and listened to my amp with the Big Fun 17's and I fell kore in love with the Blumenhofers. The overall imaging, soundstage width and height and also the highs were much better than the Harbeths. The energy and dynamics were more natural too, I felt. Maybe I am just being taken in by a new presentation, not sure.
All in all, the Tempesta 20 seems very tempting. I know they will work with my current amp, something AN cannot assure, I know they will be a definite step-up from Harbeths (or at least different and close to what I am now seeking) and finally I know the dealer very well. Guess I will continue and try and figure out the other options, but convenience/availability may be an issue.
I spoke to AN in Mumbai. He is recommending the AN-J series speakers. I have no way of listening to them in Bangalore. The other option is the Blumenhofers Tempesta 20, which is attractively priced and is, apparently, close to the Big Fun 17s in sound signature and equal in heirarchy.
I listened to some Blumenhofers today. Jochen had brought over the Fun 13s over and we compared the harbeths in my room with them. I must say the Harbeths are refined in certain areas like separation and tonal quality of the mids, but the Blumenhofers, which are less than half the price of the Harbeths were no slugs. In fact, the higher ranges were more refined and overall dynamics were very good. The 13 cm driver were lacking in the lower end compared to the Harbeths, but that was to be expected. The upper bass was still clean and energetic though. So, overall, I realised what the Harbeths were good at, and also what they were lacking. I almost decided to go for the close- to-new Fun 13s Jochen had brought over and was willing to sell at a very attractive price. That would have saved me a good amount after selling the Harbeths.
Anyway, we proceeded to a friend's house and listened to my amp with the Big Fun 17's and I fell kore in love with the Blumenhofers. The overall imaging, soundstage width and height and also the highs were much better than the Harbeths. The energy and dynamics were more natural too, I felt. Maybe I am just being taken in by a new presentation, not sure.
All in all, the Tempesta 20 seems very tempting. I know they will work with my current amp, something AN cannot assure, I know they will be a definite step-up from Harbeths (or at least different and close to what I am now seeking) and finally I know the dealer very well. Guess I will continue and try and figure out the other options, but convenience/availability may be an issue.
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Eddie, I think you have a very good speaker. You probably haven’t extracted the best from it. Will not suggest moving to a new speaker but to work on improving the delivery from your Harbeth.
It could be as simple as reworking on the placement or the cables or isolation or maybe even the amp.
In case it boils down to changing the amp, one amp that I can vouch for which will work splendidly with your speakers is Vinni Rossi Lio integrated amp.
It could be as simple as reworking on the placement or the cables or isolation or maybe even the amp.
In case it boils down to changing the amp, one amp that I can vouch for which will work splendidly with your speakers is Vinni Rossi Lio integrated amp.
Thanks Prem, that is why I am trying to do an A/B testing as much as I can. If I feel there is not a marked difference then I guess I can fine tune the setup, but my feeling is that I am seeking a different presentation and I think speaker change could be needed for that, I can also look at the amp change, but for some reason am not keen on it immediately. I found the amp hunt was more challenging the last time I did it.
I personally feel the mid range of your speaker is hard to beat. Most of the music lies in this range. The feel, emotion etc that we talk about comes only if the mids are portrayed correctly.
What you probably liked with the AN folded horns is it’s open, dynamic sound. I am not sure using the Trigon will get you that sound since Trigon will control the AN as it’s damping factor is quite high. You will need a tube amp for the AN to sound it’s best
What you probably liked with the AN folded horns is it’s open, dynamic sound. I am not sure using the Trigon will get you that sound since Trigon will control the AN as it’s damping factor is quite high. You will need a tube amp for the AN to sound it’s best
The Big Fun 17's are special Eddie, no doubt about it. Anyways good call on the Blumenhofers. I have not heard the Tempesta but if they are close to the Big Fun 17 then they are a winner.
Cheers,
Sid
Thanks Sid. I am still talking to AN though. Have not contacted Rethm, but again I am not sure if I will. With AN, I will have to change my complete setup, including the amps, which I don't mind, but the risk of a blind buy increases then. So, let me see.
Fair enough. The AN's are also highly regarded and perhaps there is more feedback available - in the form of reviews etc. so you can make a more informed decision.
Cheers,
Sid
M
mpw
Guest
Prem is pointing out to synergy too.
Either change amp
Or
Change speakers
Or
Change it all to 1 brand - AN
Personally - i was Happiest when i had an all Naim system incl the CDP. My CDP was excellent Naim CD5XS the amp was 50W naim nait 5i-2 but the sound was magic. There IS something about this synergy thing that makes the rig punch much above its weight.
Its more fun really since the total outlay in a same brand system is much lesser than if you go to assemble an equivalent galaxy of stars from different brands..
A team that plays together can more then challenge a team full of stars..
The Trigon would have synergy with the Blumenhofers more than that with Harbeth
Or in the reverse way.. The harbeth doesn't prefer the Trigon though Mr Shaw thinks his speakers are Amp neutral.
Its strange - all of us are pointing to Synergy but in different directions !!
But like many things - i suspect - you will be happiest when you audition everything on your plate..and take a call.
I remember these lines from Desperado - eagles..
"
Now, it seems to me some fine things
Have been laid upon your table,
"
Either change amp
Or
Change speakers
Or
Change it all to 1 brand - AN
Personally - i was Happiest when i had an all Naim system incl the CDP. My CDP was excellent Naim CD5XS the amp was 50W naim nait 5i-2 but the sound was magic. There IS something about this synergy thing that makes the rig punch much above its weight.
Its more fun really since the total outlay in a same brand system is much lesser than if you go to assemble an equivalent galaxy of stars from different brands..
A team that plays together can more then challenge a team full of stars..
The Trigon would have synergy with the Blumenhofers more than that with Harbeth
Or in the reverse way.. The harbeth doesn't prefer the Trigon though Mr Shaw thinks his speakers are Amp neutral.
Its strange - all of us are pointing to Synergy but in different directions !!
But like many things - i suspect - you will be happiest when you audition everything on your plate..and take a call.
I remember these lines from Desperado - eagles..
"
Now, it seems to me some fine things
Have been laid upon your table,
"
Hi Eddie,
I too went on a journey trying out low to mid efficiency speakers with powerful amps. I spent a lot of money on moving from a large integrated to a seperate pre/power and I was yet not satisfied. I went down the usual rut that an audio lover goes through like changing power cables, blaming the room, etc. Finally I came across Audio Note in Mumbai. I was at that time looking for a dac and stumbled upon AN. I even took my CD player over to Aernoud's demo room, had him bring his CD player to my place, etc. when finally I realised that the problem is that I have been chasing the wrong end of the tail. What Prem and the guy said on Naim is absolutely right. You need synergy where the system comes together as a whole and not a mix and match setup where you are left with holes in the sound. I sold my entire big rig setup which consisted of some components that had been reviewed as Class A in Stereophile and bought an all Audio Note Level 2 setup consisting of the humble AN-J speakers, an OTO SE and their DAC. The AN speakers are corner loaded so you immediately get two benefits. 1. Your distance to the speaker increases which to me was very valuable. I can buy a big system but cannot easily by a new house or expand my room. 2. The bass couples to the room and makes the speaker very easy to position.
I also slowly bought AN cabling. I have never been happier with a setup in the last 25 years. I am listening to music. Not to highs, lows, is there enough bite, is the sound too warm. This is the entire idea of having an audio setup. To sit back and enjoy it rather than to constantly spend money chasing the elusive dream. I have rediscovered my CD collection and even CD's that sounded unlistenable on my big rig sound decent on this setup. This is synergy. The sum of the whole is more than the parts and I have stopped the endless upgrade loop that most of us go on.
You can read about my experience here:
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/rotm-march-2018-award-audio-note-system-review.69613/#post-766200
I do not have experience with Harbeths or your amplifier so I really cannot comment on that. From what you described you heard their AZ series of speakers but if you can get the AN-J then it is a better AN speaker overall. Aernoud offers a 30 day money back guarantee so I had nothing to loose by going the AN route. The same should apply to you too. I think he is offering a starter setup for 4L or so which is a steal since you are getting an entire AN setup including cables. (guys, I do not work for AN or run any stereo store). This really is my experience with this brand. The advantage with the OTO is if you change the tubes to NOS, which cost less than a cable upgrade you can have an extremely huge jump in performance from a very humble setup. Do it once, do it right.
Hi Eddie
You seem to be enjoying the search for new sounds, as well you should be. It's one of the simple pleasures of life afforded to us audiofools
I've not heard the AN Js, the Blus or the Trigon amps, so do keep that in mind while considering my $0.02.
Some personal observations:
- I've heard the hemp-coned 97db AN E with a 180 watt Halcro power amp and an Audio Note 8 watt SET. The former produced a clean, pure sound with loads of dynamics and taut bass. The latter was sweeter/lusher with a softened bass at higher volume levels. However, the intrinsic sonic character of the speakers did not change.
- The reason I keep bringing up sensitivity is because I believe it makes a huge difference. Music seems to flow out of sensitive speakers with a sense of gay abandon, while insensitive ones seem to huff and puff and run out of steam. Sensitive speakers also give you a wider choice of amps. And allow you to explore the magical world of lower powered tubes.
- Great to see a dealer offering a home demo! No better way to judge if a component is right for you.
- In your place, I'd go for a pair of AN E speakers first. Then, when funds permitted, switch out the Trigon for a ~30 watt tube amp like a PrimaLuna or Line Magnetic, perhaps. Or, just switch to Blus, keep the amp for some time to come and blow up the savings on more music!
But, that's just an opinion. In the immortal words of Inspector Callahan - "Opinions are like a-holes; everybody has one!"
Happy hunting!
You seem to be enjoying the search for new sounds, as well you should be. It's one of the simple pleasures of life afforded to us audiofools
I've not heard the AN Js, the Blus or the Trigon amps, so do keep that in mind while considering my $0.02.
Some personal observations:
- I've heard the hemp-coned 97db AN E with a 180 watt Halcro power amp and an Audio Note 8 watt SET. The former produced a clean, pure sound with loads of dynamics and taut bass. The latter was sweeter/lusher with a softened bass at higher volume levels. However, the intrinsic sonic character of the speakers did not change.
- The reason I keep bringing up sensitivity is because I believe it makes a huge difference. Music seems to flow out of sensitive speakers with a sense of gay abandon, while insensitive ones seem to huff and puff and run out of steam. Sensitive speakers also give you a wider choice of amps. And allow you to explore the magical world of lower powered tubes.
- Great to see a dealer offering a home demo! No better way to judge if a component is right for you.
- In your place, I'd go for a pair of AN E speakers first. Then, when funds permitted, switch out the Trigon for a ~30 watt tube amp like a PrimaLuna or Line Magnetic, perhaps. Or, just switch to Blus, keep the amp for some time to come and blow up the savings on more music!
But, that's just an opinion. In the immortal words of Inspector Callahan - "Opinions are like a-holes; everybody has one!"
Happy hunting!
Hi Eddie
You seem to be enjoying the search for new sounds, as well you should be. It's one of the simple pleasures of life afforded to us audiofools
I've not heard the AN Js, the Blus or the Trigon amps, so do keep that in mind while considering my $0.02.
Some personal observations:
- I've heard the hemp-coned 97db AN E with a 180 watt Halcro power amp and an Audio Note 8 watt SET. The former produced a clean, pure sound with loads of dynamics and taut bass. The latter was sweeter/lusher with a softened bass at higher volume levels. However, the intrinsic sonic character of the speakers did not change.
- The reason I keep bringing up sensitivity is because I believe it makes a huge difference. Music seems to flow out of sensitive speakers with a sense of gay abandon, while insensitive ones seem to huff and puff and run out of steam. Sensitive speakers also give you a wider choice of amps. And allow you to explore the magical world of lower powered tubes.
- Great to see a dealer offering a home demo! No better way to judge if a component is right for you.
- In your place, I'd go for a pair of AN E speakers first. Then, when funds permitted, switch out the Trigon for a ~30 watt tube amp like a PrimaLuna or Line Magnetic, perhaps. Or, just switch to Blus, keep the amp for some time to come and blow up the savings on more music!
But, that's just an opinion. In the immortal words of Inspector Callahan - "Opinions are like a-holes; everybody has one!"
Happy hunting!
Couldn't agree more with the higher sensitivity speakers allowing the music to just flow freely while the lower sensitivity ones huff and puff. Maybe the lower sensitivity ones need a monster Amp but then you end up spending so much on the Amp that the system becomes lopsided and most of the smaller homes cannot handle it.
High sensitivity doesn't mean it's easy to drive. The focal 1038 is a high sensitivity spesker but needs a good Amp as it dips to below 4 ohms. You need both. High sensitivity and a load that's easy to drive. I think what we had in the 70s and 80s was a focus on music and then so where along we got lost in technical pursuits like low distortion, frequency curves, metal drivers, fancy speaker designs etc.
You should also audition the harbeth shl plus ..they r very good speakers..i did listen to audionote with their gear in singapore ..cant remember the model..the soundstage may be a compromise with corner loading...
Especially stage depth.
Personally, that's one shortcoming I can't agree with in any speaker that's placed close to the front wall.
Agree. I will go for a complete AN setup if I choose them.
Prem is pointing out to synergy too.
Either change amp
Or
Change speakers
Or
Change it all to 1 brand - AN
Personally - i was Happiest when i had an all Naim system incl the CDP. My CDP was excellent Naim CD5XS the amp was 50W naim nait 5i-2 but the sound was magic. There IS something about this synergy thing that makes the rig punch much above its weight.
Its more fun really since the total outlay in a same brand system is much lesser than if you go to assemble an equivalent galaxy of stars from different brands..
A team that plays together can more then challenge a team full of stars..
The Trigon would have synergy with the Blumenhofers more than that with Harbeth
Or in the reverse way.. The harbeth doesn't prefer the Trigon though Mr Shaw thinks his speakers are Amp neutral.
Its strange - all of us are pointing to Synergy but in different directions !!
But like many things - i suspect - you will be happiest when you audition everything on your plate..and take a call.
I remember these lines from Desperado - eagles..
"
Now, it seems to me some fine things
Have been laid upon your table,
"
I understand. Thanks.
The quest for synergy is what I am on now.
I felt that the Trigon integrated and phono, Blumenhofers and matching cables (WSS) all recommended by the dealer is also a good synergistic system. The ANs with the complete kit are also made for each other. So, it could be between these two.
Thanks so much for your detailed report of your journey to AN, Audiopro. Appreciate the time and guidance. AN is very much the top option for me, alongside Blumenhofers. I am very intrigued by the tube amp route too, so that is an incentive. AZ were the folded horns, which blew me away. AN-J are not horns. I will have to listen to them and hear how they sound differnt, and if they will still blow me away. Aaernold is bringing them over to the hi-fi show this week in Bangalore, and I will audition them there. The starter kit at 4L is very attractive. I will decide soon.
'Do it once, do it right'... It's been more than once now, but I want to get it right this time.
Hi Eddie
You seem to be enjoying the search for new sounds, as well you should be. It's one of the simple pleasures of life afforded to us audiofools
I've not heard the AN Js, the Blus or the Trigon amps, so do keep that in mind while considering my $0.02.
...
- Great to see a dealer offering a home demo! No better way to judge if a component is right for you.
- In your place, I'd go for a pair of AN E speakers first. Then, when funds permitted, switch out the Trigon for a ~30 watt tube amp like a PrimaLuna or Line Magnetic, perhaps. Or, just switch to Blus, keep the amp for some time to come and blow up the savings on more music!
But, that's just an opinion. In the immortal words of Inspector Callahan - "Opinions are like a-holes; everybody has one!"
Happy hunting!
Thanks Coaltrain, auditions aren't easy to come by and home auditions even less so. Listening to the Blumenhofers next to the Harbeths was a joy, as I am not very good at remembering sound signatures and comparing by memory. I will, however, have to do that with the ANs.
Meanwhile there is a Linemagnetic for sale here, which has caught my attention. (https://www.hifivision.com/threads/line-magnetic-lm-216-ia.70019/). I am wondering if it will match the ANs or even the Blumenhofers
Are you in touch with FM square_wave, also of Bangalore? He has the Fun 17s paired with LFD amplification.
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
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