ROON and RAAT

[terrible]

I was actually wondering since I had seen no discussion on Roon here. About a month ago suggestion of Roon came along with the last firmware update on Oppo UDP-205. I explored it and considering 205 is now a Roon ready machine I jumped on the trial. Though, I have not seen much jump in sound quality, which I guess is already upped for me with the Oppo dacs, but I love the presentation and the simplification of the library. The fact that Tidal adds to your collection is another big bonus. I also like its Focus feature that has made me discover a few more talented artists. I must admit, however, that NAS may not be ideal, but I am not entirely sure as my network is not optimum. My Synology DS916+ has decent processing (which could get better if only I could figure how to stop the damn indexing!) and 8GB ram. Despite, I ave heard occasional stuttering, for which I enabled custom Sample rate conversion but I still don't get the Parallelize Sigma-Delta Modulator option. Mystified. Now, about two days ago, I shifted the core to an external SSD and have not heard any stuttering, so fingers crossed. I am checking out the yearly subscription for now and if I like it its going to be for lifetime.

 

[sam9s]

Roon consists of three components all of which will run off a single machine.
For best results though Roon recommends the modules to be installed separately.

It uses a slightly different description which I will try to explains as follows:


Roon Core - This is as the name suggests the core of the Roon platform consisting of the heart of the Roon software. You can have only one core per licence.

This handles the database management and software that interfaces your media collection with Roon's online metadata database. This is responsible for the rich data experience synonymous with Roon. On your local machine this installs in the Roon Server folder and functions as the server software handling all requests from different Controls you have installed. It also handles playback to different Zones which is one of the unique features of Roon. Users can handle their own playback to different zones.

Roon Remote - This is what Roon calls their Control software that is installed on your control PC, tablet or phone. This is the client/GUI that controls Roon. The big thing about this module is the no lag operation on diverse platforms and hardware.

Roon RAAT - called Output by Roon these are essentially software transports that handle playback to your different devices. By separating these modules, Roon achieves an efficient way to handle the different hardware options available.

Roon recommends installing the Core and Server on separate machines but one can install both on a simple NUC or generic assembled machine without any issue provided your hardware can handle the load. Media can sit on a network drive(s) or NAS and will get mapped by Roon Server.

One of the benefits of the Roon Architecture is that one doesn't need to have the silent low noise computer that has been the norm for computer audio in recent times. One can install the Core in a separate room on a powerful machine and not worry about it again. Just place a small form factor device (NUC, Allo or Raspberry Pi) on your audio rack and it will serve up bit perfect signals over wifi or ethernet. Put another way Roon allows you to leverage networked (older) hardware for outstanding playback quality.

As has been said earlier the sound quality of Roon is another discussion.

Thanks for a pretty comprehensive explanation, so by reading it, I think Roon is very much like LMS in its working architecture, minus the catalog thing. LMS also has a server (core as you may call it), a control which can be android, (running squeeze player or similar) iOS or laptop and an output (player), which are called slimdevices, on Rpi or NUC or SBT (squeeze box touch) etc, running something like Picore player for pi or Squeezplay for windows. SBT is standalone device.

None the less will take the trial and see what its all about ....

 

[sam9s]

This will "work" but will have issues with speed with a large music collection.
Typically Synology NAS are good servers but not great for running applications.

But it is an option - install Roon Server on an additional SSD for better results.

Alternatively, install Roon Core + Server on a beefier machine you have on your network.
It will pull the data from your NAS without any issues.

I have 916+ with 8GB ram, same as terrible, so it ain't that bad, let me try and see what the fuss is all about. Will report.

@Sam

They also the option of installing it on the Synology supported NAS boxes as well. It seems that it can be installed on a HDD within the NAS and they recommend a SSD but also provide the option to install on an external HDD preferably over USB 3.0 and run it from there, so no PC is required. Give it a spin and do let me know as you have the nice synology compared to my bare DS214se

Can you point me to the repo, I don't see the package officially available. I am googling as well though.

 

[sam9s]

OK got what I needed, sharing for others as well

https://blog.rieke.tv/roon-server-on-nas/

 

[Nikhil]

I have 916+ with 8GB ram, same as terrible, so it ain't that bad, let me try and see what the fuss is all about. Will report.

As I had said earlier it works. But it's much better to install Roon Core + Server on another machine and just let it pull the data from your NAS.

 

[sam9s]

Ok installed Roon server on NAS and then Core on laptop, Few questions I have if anyone can adress them .....

1. where is the output the third component of Roon. On website I can only see server, core and remote?. Or is core used as output as well.

2. When I installed core on laptop, no where it asked the ip/url for the server, neither did it try to search for the server. I wonder what the server is doing? Looks like core itself is a stand-alone segment. Also I see output is coming from core (i.e My laptop) and there is only Airplay support to throw music to another system, No CCA no UPnP nothing....

3. I couldnt find Rpi module on the website, or do we have a regular Debian install?

4. No UPnP? Airplay sucks. Whats the best way to induce Roon in my current setup. For the server, I am happy with Synology. I want to have core and output on Rpi ..possible ??? As currently, I am using Rpi with Moode to FiiO USB DAC to AMP to speakers, and I want to keep it that way, replacing Moode with Roon and see how it goes. Please suggest the best possible way.

5. Can ROON server, core , output all run on NUC DN2820FYKH with usb out to DAC. Song catalog 1500 FLACS, no DSD.

5. What are ROON ROCK and ROON BRIDGE

Regards
Sammy

 

[dheerajin]

may be these videos are helpful-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RZpjkjt3Z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEDRA54q5nM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0fEAhxYMIA

 

[sam9s]

can anyone tell me what is the base install on Rpi for Roon Bridge. Its not a package its a script, so do we run that on Rasbian? What is better Roon bridge on Rpi or Rock on NUC?

 

[manniraj]

@sam

I do not think they have a version for Rpi as I see only Linux mentioned in the list here - https://roonlabs.com/downloads.html

 

[terrible]

can anyone tell me what is the base install on Rpi for Roon Bridge. Its not a package its a script, so do we run that on Rasbian? What is better Roon bridge on Rpi or Rock on NUC?

These links might help:

https://www.hifiberry.com/build/gui...dge-on-a-hifiberry-dac-equipped-raspberry-pi/ (Installing on RPi)

Roon Knowledge Base - LinuxInstall (arm install of Roon Bridge)

 

[Nikhil]

Roon Download Page: https://roonlabs.com/downloads.html

Ok installed Roon server on NAS and then Core on laptop, Few questions I have if anyone can adress them .....

1. where is the output the third component of Roon. On website I can only see server, core and remote?. Or is core used as output as well.

From the Roon Download page download a suitable "Roon Bridge" at the bottom

2. When I installed core on laptop, no where it asked the ip/url for the server, neither did it try to search for the server. I wonder what the server is doing? Looks like core itself is a stand-alone segment. Also I see output is coming from core (i.e My laptop) and there is only Airplay support to throw music to another system, No CCA no UPnP nothing....

Roon Core includes the Server software.
You don't need to install anything on the NAS. After you install Roon on our RPi you just point it to the NAS location and it will pull the data from the NAS.

3. I couldnt find Rpi module on the website, or do we have a regular Debian install?

Download the Linux "Roon Bridge" from the download page for output only

4. No UPnP? Airplay sucks. Whats the best way to induce Roon in my current setup. For the server, I am happy with Synology. I want to have core and output on Rpi ..possible ??? As currently, I am using Rpi with Moode to FiiO USB DAC to AMP to speakers, and I want to keep it that way, replacing Moode with Roon and see how it goes. Please suggest the best possible way.

For Server download the Linux "Roon Server" which has both core and output

5. Can ROON server, core , output all run on NUC DN2820FYKH with usb out to DAC. Song catalog 1500 FLACS, no DSD.

Should work just fine. Download the complete "Roon" which includes Control, Core and Output

5. What are ROON ROCK and ROON BRIDGE

Roon ROCK is a NUC optimised package
Roon BRIDGE is basically Output only.


Hope this helps.

 

[sam9s]

These links might help:

Roon Knowledge Base - LinuxInstall (arm install of Roon Bridge)

Below is what is says ..... so where are we running these commands, on Rasbian??? that is what I need to know...

Roon Bridge armv8
$ curl -O http://download.roonlabs.com/builds/roonbridge-installer-linuxarmv8.sh
$ chmod +x roonbridge-installer-linuxarmv8.sh
$ sudo ./roonbridge-installer-linuxarmv8.sh

And I believe armv8 is for Rpi any variant ?

 

[sam9s]

@sam

I do not think they have a version for Rpi as I see only Linux mentioned in the list here - https://roonlabs.com/downloads.html

Yes mani, officially they have not created a package that can act as bridge on Rpi, but looks like there linux install for ARM can work on Rpi as Bridge, so I am assuming that would be a debian install as Rpi OOB OS is Rasbian, henc my Q to terrible

 

[sam9s]

Roon Core includes the Server software.
You don't need to install anything on the NAS. After you install Roon on our RPi you just point it to the NAS location and it will pull the data from the NAS.

Okeyy if core has server as well, why do we have a separate server component. If I want to use Synology for both server and core and use Rpi as my Roon Bridge, whats the way to proceed. I dont want to put my laptop in between, I installed on it just as an experiment. For actual use I want to keep things between NAS and Rpi (or NUC).

 

[terrible]

Below is what is says ..... so where are we running these commands, on Rasbian??? that is what I need to know...

Though I don't know much about the Roon and RPi combo, reading through the installation suggests that you arm the RPi with Roon, much like Moode. Just burn it on an SD card. Then I guess the Roon app on your mobile may catch it.

Okeyy if core has server as well, why do we have a separate server component. If I want to use Synology for both server and core and use Rpi as my Roon Bridge, whats the way to proceed. I dont want to put my laptop in between, I installed on it just as an experiment. For actual use I want to keep things between NAS and Rpi (or NUC).

As far as I know and have read, NUC, with i3 processor is essential to run the core. But if you are running the core on Synology, I don't think you need a NUC. The roon remote on your phone or laptop will display and allow you to send songs to the end point. Since I run Roon on a Synology, the only suggestion I can give you is get an external SSD (128gb or 250gb), plug it into the NAS and install the core on that. There is a simple process to do that. If you want I could take you through it. Roon advises against keeping the core on spinning disks; apparently it reduces the performance. You can keep your music files on the NAS.

The Roon Bridge you will need if you don't have Roon ready endpoint. If that is the case, and if you manage to figure how to install the bridge on RPi, that should do. NUC would be more useful if you need to install the core itself.

Here's another link you may want to read https://kb.roonlabs.com/Audio_On_Linux

Edit: Just found this link https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index.php/2017/03/19/raspberry-pi-3-for-roon-bridge/ Towards the end it kind of explains how to load Roon Bridge on Pi through this software http://dietpi.com/

Details about the DietPi Software: http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5#p5

 

[sam9s]

Though I don't know much about the Roon and RPi combo, reading through the installation suggests that you arm the RPi with Roon, much like Moode. Just burn it on an SD card. Then I guess the Roon app on your mobile may catch it.

No there is no package or image to burn to, like moode, according to (Roon Knowledge Base - LinuxInstall) we have a script that either we download and run or directly run the commands (I posted earlier) to download and run the script, that should convert Rpi to roon bridge. I will try and report.

As far as I know and have read, NUC, with i3 processor is essential to run the core. But if you are running the core on Synology, I don't think you need a NUC. The roon remote on your phone or laptop will display and allow you to send songs to the end point. Since I run Roon on a Synology, the only suggestion I can give you is get an external SSD (128gb or 250gb), plug it into the NAS and install the core on that. There is a simple process to do that. If you want I could take you through it. Roon advises against keeping the core on spinning disks; apparently, it reduces the performance. You can keep your music files on the NAS.

Frankly I dont know what I have on Synology, but it says Roon Server. Not sure if it has the core. So assist me to knw how to get core installed on synology. I only saw one spk package for Synology and installing that installed the server I believe, not sure if it included the core (how do we check, I could not find any ip/url to access)

I would not like to bring another extra device NUC in the entire plethora of already existing devices I have .. .. Hence need to keep it simple. Synology for Core and Server and Rpi as Bridge (or end point or output or whatever you may call). Point me to the direction where I can get Core on Synology (if at all it is possible)

The Roon Bridge you will need if you don't have Roon ready endpoint. If that is the case, and if you manage to figure how to install the bridge on RPi, that should do. NUC would be more useful if you need to install the core itself.
Edit: Just found this link https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index.php/2017/03/19/raspberry-pi-3-for-roon-bridge/ Towards the end it kind of explains how to load Roon Bridge on Pi through this software DietPi - Lightweight justice for your SBC

Yes I have used ditepi albeit for other apps that I wanted to have on pi like RetroPi, so will give it a shot again to use it to install bridge .....


Another update I wanted to give was, while I was reading more on Roon, I came to know it also supports slimdevices (LMS end points) and I am a fan of Picore player, so I gave shot for that, and installed Picore player on pi, configured it for roon and vola, it did start to show up in Roon Zones. This was on another pi with a piHAT DAC (https://www.fasttech.com/products/1/10023729/5136900-pifi-hifi-dac-digital-audio-card-pinboard-for). I could not hear any surprising change in audio quality, (can blame my audio setup, which is AudioEngines A5+), or maybe I just played one, two tracks as it was late. But I will do a side by side comparision with Moode on Rpi + FiiO DAC to AE A5+ and Picoreplayer as Roon Bridge on Rpi + PiFi DAC+ V2.0 (which is basically hifi berry, same wolfson chip) to AE A5+ and see if I can spot the difference.

But none the less I would like to try Roon's Own bridge as it as RAAT, that is said to have better performance .... so will try all this and report ...

 

[terrible]

Frankly I dont know what I have on Synology, but it says Roon Server. Not sure if it has the core. So assist me to knw how to get core installed on synology. I only saw one spk package for Synology and installing that installed the server I believe, not sure if it included the core (how do we check, I could not find any ip/url to access)

If you have followed the below guide to the the T, you have the Roon core installed on Synology.

https://blog.rieke.tv/roon-server-on-nas/

On the installation on RP1, I did post a link that tells you how to: https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index....r-roon-bridge/

See if this helps.

 

[captainsubtext]

I'm running roon on a Mac mini as core and Allo digi one as the end point. Allo is running volumio and have installed roon bridge. Works flawlessly.

 

[sam9s]

If you have followed the below guide to the the T, you have the Roon core installed on Synology.

https://blog.rieke.tv/roon-server-on-nas/

On the installation on RP1, I did post a link that tells you how to: https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index....r-roon-bridge/

See if this helps.

Thats exactly what I did to the T.., but anyway I got what I was missing, had to uninstall Roon (all in one) from my laptop and install it just as remote, and then point it towards server core that is my Synology. Once I did that all started to make sense... .

Now all I have to see is which is good, picore player or roon bridge with RAAT both on Rpi.

If I can hear the difference, I am sold, atleast for a year..

 

[sam9s]

One issue, why isnt my tidal account working in Roon. I can log in to Tidal on web, but not inside Roon, is it because it needs an active Tidal subscription? coz mine is expired as of now.