Setting crossover: What happens if I set crossover to the sub at 80Hz for mains whose claimed response is 80Hz and above?

[k-pad]

Follow-up: What if LCR is rated till 80Hz, surrounds are rated till 110 Hz and Atmos even higher?

Of course, I'll play around and see. But where does one set the crossover, generally, when it comes to speakers that skim the bottom?

Will a speaker rated at 80Hz fully let go of its responsibility there, or is there some room to work around?

Most sub manuals say set the sub 10Hz above what the main speakers 'can truly do'. Now, do we take specs at face value or add a dash of salt?
Regards

 

[amrutmhatre90]

Most sub manuals say set the sub 10Hz above what the main speakers 'can truly do'

This is exactly what you want to have in your system.
Ideally decent bookshelf speakers or center channels from same batch easily go below 80hz but then to 80hz is the sweet spot for the crossover.
But a big BUT, how your room is reacting to those speakers and the placement you chose also affects the frequency each speaker can reach, some frequencies can be low or others can be very high.

Only way to get real-time data is through REW.

If you have different speakers with different frequencies, the calibration will get best out of it. Surely you can tweak, you can increase the crossover but never reduce it.
The frequency response shared by them is in the special rooms they take which can differ to our rooms.

This is what audyssey sees speakers set in my room:



QA3050i fronts
QA3090ci center
QA3010i surround
Micca Covo-S heights

 

[k-pad]

This is exactly what you want to have in your system.
Ideally decent bookshelf speakers or center channels from same batch easily go below 80hz but then to 80hz is the sweet spot for the crossover.

Thanks bhai.
If speaker spec says 80Hz to 25K, and I set sub at 80, when does one cut off, and when does the other step in?
Is it a sharp 80Hz, or do they share?

But a big BUT, how your room is reacting to those speakers and the placement you chose also affects the frequency each speaker can reach, some frequencies can be low or others can be very high.

That's a huge point. Tks.

Only way to get real-time data is through REW.

Defo running it. Can Audyssey's mic be used or do I need a separate mic?

If you have different speakers with different frequencies, the calibration will get best out of it.

Got it.
So, from sub to surround to lcr, if there is a gap, calibration will channel those frequencies accordingly?

Surely you can tweak, you can increase the crossover but never reduce it.

Will do. Am thinking 80-100 should give sweet spot for an lcr that goes down to a claimed 80.

The frequency response shared by them is in the special rooms they take which can differ to our rooms.

Ya, crazy! One manufacturer who bothered to respond actually said this. And it is a manufacturer who came as a surprise.
Wil share more soon.

This is what audyssey sees speakers set in my room:

View attachment 64378

QA3050i fronts
QA3090ci center
QA3010i surround
Micca Covo-S heights

Thanks a ton, bhai. As always.

PS: why have you kept the mains large and full band?

 

[Mahi]

This is exactly what you want to have in your system.
Ideally decent bookshelf speakers or center channels from same batch easily go below 80hz but then to 80hz is the sweet spot for the crossover.
But a big BUT, how your room is reacting to those speakers and the placement you chose also affects the frequency each speaker can reach, some frequencies can be low or others can be very high.

Only way to get real-time data is through REW.

If you have different speakers with different frequencies, the calibration will get best out of it. Surely you can tweak, you can increase the crossover but never reduce it.
The frequency response shared by them is in the special rooms they take which can differ to our rooms.

This is what audyssey sees speakers set in my room:

View attachment 64378

QA3050i fronts
QA3090ci center
QA3010i surround
Micca Covo-S heights

Your surround speakers setting 40H ??? Any particular reason sir?

 

[amrutmhatre90]

Thanks bhai.
If speaker spec says 80Hz to 25K, and I set sub at 80, when does one cut off, and when does the other step in?
Is it a sharp 80Hz, or do they share?

That's a huge point. Tks.

Defo running it. Can Audyssey's mic be used or do I need a separate mic?

Got it.
So, from sub to surround to lcr, if there is a gap, calibration will channel those frequencies accordingly?

Will do. Am thinking 80-100 should give sweet spot for an lcr that goes down to a claimed 80.

Ya, crazy! One manufacturer who bothered to respond actually said this. And it is a manufacturer who came as a surprise.
Wil share more soon.

Thanks a ton, bhai. As always.

PS: why have you kept the mains large and full band?

They do share slightly so the transitioning is seemless, only speakers I can think of having exact 80hz or 100hz crossover are satellite speakers. Decent Bookshelfs or centers are rated below 80hz most of the time.

Audyssey mic can be used, but a special mic like UMIK is preferable for accurate data.

Yes, if you have a decent AVR which can set different crossovers for different speakers, while calibrating you will see the same.

Yes, 80-100hz is a sweet spot depending on the speakers, and how you like it.

One thing to note is higher you set the crossover, lesser low frequencies will transfer to speakers. If you have good speakers and set the crossover at 100hz or above, you are not doing justice to those speakers.

@Mahi @k-pad I did change my calibration settings after what audyssey did, all speakers are set to small and crossover at 80hz except for heights which stay at 110

That was my default calibration file to show how speakers react in my room. You can check the quoted frequency range for each speaker on their website.

I save default audyssey file, make a copy of it and change settings on that file. Be it frequency capping, or changing crossover and other stuff.

 

[sud98]

If your speaker's min. freq is 80Hz, you are better off setting the crossover at a freq higher than that.

Play with 90,100,110 and see where it blends better.

 

[keith_correa]

Usually a decade above the low end rolloff is the ideal. This leaves some headroom. So yes, around 90 Hz and there about will do the trick. But then, also, rolloff SPL is played around by manufacturers in different ways so also try 70 Hz.

 

[k-pad]

Usually a decade above the low end rolloff is the ideal. This leaves some headroom. So yes, around 90 Hz and there about will do the trick. But then, also, rolloff SPL is played around by manufacturers in different ways so also try 70 Hz.

Oh! Didn't know it could be set under the specified cut off fq also...
Thought all those frequencies will be 'lost'

 

[ghost_z]

Oh! Didn't know it could be set under the specified cut off fq also...
Thought all those frequencies will be 'lost'

Here is another tip, here is how it works for powered speakers, not sure how it will with passives.

I split the output from dac, and send the signal to both satellites and active sub.

This at least in my case yields much much better results, my experience with crossovers, even higher end ones hasnt been good, they soften the audio output from the satellites.

so i basically bypass the crossover and let satellites fire on all cylinders, and only use the cross over to adjust the sub response.

So YMMV, try this is you want to.

 

[keith_correa]

Oh! Didn't know it could be set under the specified cut off fq also...
Thought all those frequencies will be 'lost'

I'm not saying it will work well but it just might too!

 

[k-pad]

I'm not saying it will work well but it just might too!

Ya, will try and see how it sounds. No harm.

 

[k-pad]

Here is another tip, here is how it works for powered speakers, not sure how it will with passives.

I split the output from dac, and send the signal to both satellites and active sub.

This at least in my case yields much much better results, my experience with crossovers, even higher end ones hasnt been good, they soften the audio output from the satellites.

so i basically bypass the crossover and let satellites fire on all cylinders, and only use the cross over to adjust the sub response.

So YMMV, try this is you want to.

That's a neat idea. But I guess I will not be able to try it with just an AVR?

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Thanks bhai.
If speaker spec says 80Hz to 25K, and I set sub at 80, when does one cut off, and when does the other step in?
Is it a sharp 80Hz, or do they share?

The crossover is not a brick wall, either with the high-pass (speaker) or the low-pass (subwoofer). An octave below and an octave above the crossover is a reasonable approximation for where you should expect both the speakers and sub(s) to contribute. Proper integration around this region is impossible (IMO) with automated room correction. Also, the slope of the roll-off for the crossover (and type) in an AVR/processor is typically fixed and not user-manageable. External DSP will allow for that flexibility, if desired.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

1) Crossovers are not brick walls as mentioned.
2) Different slopes are used, IIRC AVRs usually use 12db/oct, this is a shallow slope and will provide a good amount of output below the set frequency.
3) Typically people set XOs by eyeballing the specs of the speakers/subs, I recommend by ear.
4) Do not trust manufacturer spec sheets, aka dash of salt.
5) In room response at LP will vary greatly from near field/anechoic response.
6) Speakers can have a "brick wall" type response at the low end if it is a ported design.

I'd run the speakers to about 100-120Hz as a starting point.

Usually a decade above the low end rolloff is the ideal. This leaves some headroom. So yes, around 90 Hz and there about will do the trick. But then, also, rolloff SPL is played around by manufacturers in different ways so also try 70 Hz.

Decade? Are you sure you didn't mean octave? Or did you mean 10Hz increments?

 

[keith_correa]

Decade?

Yes.

Are you sure you didn't mean octave?

Yes.

Or did you mean 10Hz increments?

Yes. Increment in the singular.

 

[k-pad]

1) Crossovers are not brick walls as mentioned.
2) Different slopes are used, IIRC AVRs usually use 12db/oct, this is a shallow slope and will provide a good amount of output below the set frequency.
3) Typically people set XOs by eyeballing the specs of the speakers/subs, I recommend by ear.
4) Do not trust manufacturer spec sheets, aka dash of salt.
5) In room response at LP will vary greatly from near field/anechoic response.
6) Speakers can have a "brick wall" type response at the low end if it is a ported design.

I'd run the speakers to about 100-120Hz as a starting point.



Decade? Are you sure you didn't mean octave? Or did you mean 10Hz increments?

Have left it at 100 as of now, by ear.
Will try out a little above and below once broken in.
Thanks, man.

PS: How to discern 6?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Have left it at 100 as of now, by ear.
Will try out a little above and below once broken in.
Thanks, man.

PS: How to discern 6?

If you specifically wish to know if the speaker has a brick wall response at its low end, the only way is to measure it, preferably outdoors.