Never tried Ardenal sub, but I preferred the FVX12 over past subs I have owned from SVS (SB2000, SB4000) / XTZ 12.17 Edge
Showcase your audio/video setup here!......
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Gerry_the_Merry
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My system is TT Garrard 301, CDP Marantz SA 10, Amp Accuphase C2110 and P4100, Speakers Focal Sopra N3.
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Had auditioned the Arendal 1961 sealed in Bangalore. Plenty of slam/mid bass attack. Miles ahead of the SVS PB2000 (for movies at least), which I had owned.
Heard this system last week in Mumbai. Amazing sound, great host, a lovely evening full of CD and vinyl music
Thanks @Gerry_the_Merry
Hi Analogous,
Great setup.
What are the speakers behind the Zu Audios.?
How do you find the Karan acoustics.? Any comparison to the Croft would be great.
Regrads,
Shinto
Hi Shinto,
The speakers behind are Graham Audio LS5/9. They have come in the place of the Harbeth P3s. They work nicely with the Croft.
I haven’t done a AB testing as since the Karan arrived a few weeks ago. I haven’t switched it out except at the beginning. It’s that good to my ears.
The difference between the Croft and Karan is that (to me, with the Zu) the Karan pulls out more details, slightly wider sound stage and separation and seems to amplify across the range without accentuating anything. Both are musical and very engaging. The base frequency control with the Karan is the best I have heard in my little room and might be the biggest advantage (other than power on tap).
I have also been playing with different DACs (Lindeman Limetree network DAC, MHDT Havana and the Schiit Gungnir Multibit) Each imparts it’s own sonic character and the Karan amplifies each faithfully. This presents a dilemma to me…
I was very unsure how this amp would synergise with the 97db sensitive Zu. But I can say now they sound wonderful. I reluctantly moved on from the P3s. They are amazing little speakers, but I am glad I did and discovered the joys of a full range speaker pair.
The speakers behind are Graham Audio LS5/9. They have come in the place of the Harbeth P3s. They work nicely with the Croft.
I haven’t done a AB testing as since the Karan arrived a few weeks ago. I haven’t switched it out except at the beginning. It’s that good to my ears.
The difference between the Croft and Karan is that (to me, with the Zu) the Karan pulls out more details, slightly wider sound stage and separation and seems to amplify across the range without accentuating anything. Both are musical and very engaging. The base frequency control with the Karan is the best I have heard in my little room and might be the biggest advantage (other than power on tap).
I have also been playing with different DACs (Lindeman Limetree network DAC, MHDT Havana and the Schiit Gungnir Multibit) Each imparts it’s own sonic character and the Karan amplifies each faithfully. This presents a dilemma to me…
I was very unsure how this amp would synergise with the 97db sensitive Zu. But I can say now they sound wonderful. I reluctantly moved on from the P3s. They are amazing little speakers, but I am glad I did and discovered the joys of a full range speaker pair.
Oh I have been interested in the Elac sound. Can you please elaborate on your experience with this set up?When you are poor but wanna hi-fi
Apple Music > LG V40 > Marantz PM 8006 > Elac Debut b6.2
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Hi Analogus,Hi Shinto,
The speakers behind are Graham Audio LS5/9. They have come in the place of the Harbeth P3s. They work nicely with the Croft.
I haven’t done a AB testing as since the Karan arrived a few weeks ago. I haven’t switched it out except at the beginning. It’s that good to my ears.
The difference between the Croft and Karan is that (to me, with the Zu) the Karan pulls out more details, slightly wider sound stage and separation and seems to amplify across the range without accentuating anything. Both are musical and very engaging. The base frequency control with the Karan is the best I have heard in my little room and might be the biggest advantage (other than power on tap).
I have also been playing with different DACs (Lindeman Limetree network DAC, MHDT Havana and the Schiit Gungnir Multibit) Each imparts it’s own sonic character and the Karan amplifies each faithfully. This presents a dilemma to me…
I was very unsure how this amp would synergise with the 97db sensitive Zu. But I can say now they sound wonderful. I reluctantly moved on from the P3s. They are amazing little speakers, but I am glad I did and discovered the joys of a full range speaker pair.
Thanks for the detailed write up. Enjoy...
Sweet set ups both @Shinto ! It can not get more straightforward than this.
I have a fair idea of how the Harbeth - Croft combo would sound. Curious to learn how this compares with the Genelecs, with a centre channel and a sub driven by the receiver. Please share your experience of this.
1q
We have moved to this house recently and I have not had enough time to AB test them properly in the same room.But still my opinion below,
Both are very different sounding setups.
Croft -Harbeth is softer and natural with a beautiful and natural tone to midrange instruments/vocals with a wet bass.
The genelecs are powerful with deep and somewhat dry bass down to around 35 Hz without the subs.(I use the centre channel only for movies,sub is used for music occassionally).The genelecs have a wide soundstage and wide sweet spot.Having said that I think the harbeths image better. Harbeths with croft are non fatiguing, but still have the resolution and all the details which is special and difficult to achieve in my opinion.The Genelecs are a little bit on the cold side with a bit more resolution than the harbeth-croft. The Harbeths -croft is more refined sounding setup with a calmer presentation(does not suit some music genres).The Genelecs can play anything from soft music to hard with authority and perfection.
One thing to note is, the Genelecs are driven by the preouts of an AVR(Yamaha RX-V6A) , that is it , no expensive front end to support it.I did ask others including @chander who use Genelecs, and they all agreed that the front end changes makes not much difference to the sound .One guy who uses 8050b (same model as mine) ,recommended Lyndorf amplifier with room correction to bring any differences.This is where Harbeths differ, they are very picky on the front end gear and amplification.They become a different animal based on the front end /amplification.Give them power , and they get snappier and fast with a huge sound stage.Give them something like croft, they give you the 3 D stage with depth. However ,Harbeths are not very picky on the source material, you can still enjoy bad recordings or say spotify/youtube etc..Ofcource they reward you for good source material.But interestingly, the Genelecs respond well to Source material, say Quobuzz will sound highend whereas Youtube will sound like another AVR based HT setup.
I think I have described the traits of both setups. Now coming to personal preference.
I prefer the Harbeth-Croft combination because of the Natural and life like(humans in the room) presentation.The Genelec presentation is a bit exaggerated to my ears(not sounding natural as Harbeths, say for example if you hear a violin or an voice on the Harbeths , you some how feel it is close to real.where as with Genelecs,it seems exaggerated if that makes sense).This is totally subjective and also might depend on other factors like the room and electronics.Also I am not a very experienced listener, so I might be wrong too.
I actually got the Genelecs for replacing Harbeths and to have a single setup that do justice for both music and movies.I even had the Harbeths for sale at one time and withdrawn . I have ended up keeping both setups for now. One of them might still go (to release some funds). I just need a little more time to decide.Will have to try them in the same room and spent some time.
In my opinion, if you are budget constrained, Genelecs or other studio monitors without any doubt.If you can afford good amplification, source etc, Harbeths(unless you can find a cheap hidden gem for the Harbeths.).In my case, if I compare the cost of both setups, genelecs are almost half the cost of my Harbeth setup.Does harbeth-croft perform two times better than Genelecs, ofcourse no. For another person, Genelecs could be far superior than the Hartbeth -Croft combo as well depending on his personal preferences.
Moral of the story: Pick your own poison or keep both.
Hi Analogous,
We have moved to this house recently and I have not had enough time to AB test them properly in the same room.But still my opinion below,
Both are very different sounding setups.
Croft -Harbeth is softer and natural with a beautiful and natural tone to midrange instruments/vocals with a wet bass.
The genelecs are powerful with deep and somewhat dry bass down to around 35 Hz without the subs.(I use the centre channel only for movies,sub is used for music occassionally).The genelecs have a wide soundstage and wide sweet spot.Having said that I think the harbeths image better. Harbeths with croft are non fatiguing, but still have the resolution and all the details which is special and difficult to achieve in my opinion.The Genelecs are a little bit on the cold side with a bit more resolution than the harbeth-croft. The Harbeths -croft is more refined sounding setup with a calmer presentation(does not suit some music genres).The Genelecs can play anything from soft music to hard with authority and perfection.
One thing to note is, the Genelecs are driven by the preouts of an AVR(Yamaha RX-V6A) , that is it , no expensive front end to support it.I did ask others including @chander who use Genelecs, and they all agreed that the front end changes makes not much difference to the sound .One guy who uses 8050b (same model as mine) ,recommended Lyndorf amplifier with room correction to bring any differences.This is where Harbeths differ, they are very picky on the front end gear and amplification.They become a different animal based on the front end /amplification.Give them power , and they get snappier and fast with a huge sound stage.Give them something like croft, they give you the 3 D stage with depth. However ,Harbeths are not very picky on the source material, you can still enjoy bad recordings or say spotify/youtube etc..Ofcource they reward you for good source material.But interestingly, the Genelecs respond well to Source material, say Quobuzz will sound highend whereas Youtube will sound like another AVR based HT setup.
I think I have described the traits of both setups. Now coming to personal preference.
I prefer the Harbeth-Croft combination because of the Natural and life like(humans in the room) presentation.The Genelec presentation is a bit exaggerated to my ears(not sounding natural as Harbeths, say for example if you hear a violin or an voice on the Harbeths , you some how feel it is close to real.where as with Genelecs,it seems exaggerated if that makes sense).This is totally subjective and also might depend on other factors like the room and electronics.Also I am not a very experienced listener, so I might be wrong too.
I actually got the Genelecs for replacing Harbeths and to have a single setup that do justice for both music and movies.I even had the Harbeths for sale at one time and withdrawn . I have ended up keeping both setups for now. One of them might still go (to release some funds). I just need a little more time to decide.Will have to try them in the same room and spent some time.
In my opinion, if you are budget constrained, Genelecs or other studio monitors without any doubt.If you can afford good amplification, source etc, Harbeths(unless you can find a cheap hidden gem for the Harbeths.).In my case, if I compare the cost of both setups, genelecs are almost half the cost of my Harbeth setup.Does harbeth-croft perform two times better than Genelecs, ofcourse no. For another person, Genelecs could be far superior than the Hartbeth -Croft combo as well depending on his personal preferences.
Moral of the story: Pick your own poison or keep both.
First of all congrats on 2 differrent setups which sound very different ! BTW thought the Genelecs were powered..did you mean the AVR as a preamp ?
I could not understand the above line in bold, or maybe i understood it wrong- by front end did you mean the Source or the amplification ? Source is of course the most important and if any speaker/amp is not able to bring those different out there is something wrong in the setup so I am pretty sure you intended somethng else. Did you mean its More forgiving of source quality ?
Hi Arj,
Yes,the Genelecs are powered.I meant that the AVR is preamp(source as well).
Yes,I meant front end as Source and Amplification.
The confusing part is, it is forgiving for the source hardware/electronics , but not the source material.Compressed media like youtube or even Spotify premium will not sound good as Quobuzz.Poor recordings will be punished regardless.I might have to spend somemore before concluding whether Poor recordings or compressed media is the exact culprit.Say for example the album "Liberty' by "Anette Ashvik" sounds sublime in both setups via Quobuz. One thing I have not done is trying the same album in spotify premium as I don't have a subscription anymore.It might sound good even with Spotify as the recording is very good.
I did try my Marantz NA8005 as DAC/media player with AVR in pure direct mode and there was not much difference to AVR as source and preamp. I have tried 2 different Yamaha AVR's and briefly I did try a friends Yamaha AS1000 preouts with marantz NA8005 as source/DAC . Not much difference at all.May be I need to try another good preamp before concluding, but it is an expensive exercise and like I mentioned already, other users reported similar experiences.So I am hesitating to try. I have as bluesound node 2i now , which I might try as source and preamp to get the AVR out of the equation.
Got it ! thanks.
On the Media quality & Source Electronics the onus is of the source electronics to get it right and if it is not good enough it will of course bring it out in a very different way. I personally have found a Good source + Average amplification/Speaker > > Average source + Great amplification+Speaker.
By good and average I would primarily mean a combination of tone, micro and macro dynamics and resolution approximately in this order, which are the most important to me (this varies by individual)
@Shinto: Wow! That’s an amazing and thoughtful review and comparison. I can totally relate to your experience with the Harbeth-Croft presentation, strengths and limitations. It’s my opinion too though I could not have expressed it nearly as well.
Thank you for taking the time to do this comparison. I was always curious about the Genelec powered monitor sound. Your description lays out its strengths and limitations very nicely. Hope to audition a well set up higher end Genelecs someday-somewhere.
You have also highlighted the challenges with the source and front end matching that many of us are struggling with. I am still looking out for a DAC - streamer combo that will soothe my itch without destabilising my financial equilibarium.
By the way any reason why you chose the AVR-Genelecs over the Croft Harbeth, for the TV audio ?
I meant the Electronics only ! we are very often at the mercy of the material available
When it comes to Movies, Harbeths cannot compete with Genelecs in any way.I have a centre channel Genelec 8050b as well.They have solid response down to around 35 Hz.They are very dynamic and impactful for movies.Morover you dont have to worry about Poweramps etc for Hoetheater.All you need is a preout from your AVR. Like I mentioned before, Genelecs are a very good solution to someone looking for a Hometheater and Music room without multiple set of speakers.They do justice to both.
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
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