spirovious
Well-Known Member
You can connect pc or laptop with usb. Do you have a different source?
SONIC PLUMBER -MYTH BUSTING EXPERIENCE ABOUT AUDIO CABLES
- Thread starter MasTerasTrix
- Start date
The cheapest way to use your phone as source to stream Spotify or any such streaming service is to get a bluetooth receiver with digital outputs, some have inbuilt DAC with analogue outputs also.
If your phone supports superior codecs like Aptx and LDAC, then even better.
Some very good products are Ifi Zen Blue V2, Auris Blue HD pro and FiiO BTA30 pro (this I have).
You can find much cheaper alternatives like Cubetek, Vikefon, Tewatross on Amazon.
Essentially, they will receive the Bluetooth signal from your phone and convert it to either digital or analogue or both to feed to an external amp or another DAC.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Can you write more about this? Its DAC performance? There was Diwali discount too.
MasTerasTrix
Active Member
Wanted to stream Spotify through BT, I'm aware of RP as a streamer but i find it too complex to understand how to build one ,install firmware etc.
Pure Brilliance. You just paved the way for me and exactly what i was looking for. Thanks a ton.
Ordered an Audioengine B1 BT music reciever just now, has both analog and digital like u suggested. Hope it's a nice one.
Hi Sir,
I got this Bluetooth Transreceiver around 10 days back and have been studying and listening to the various options it provides.
I am presently using Dynaudio Xeo 10 as my speakers which is active and has an inbuilt DAC with optical input and a Bluetooth input. It also has two analogue inputs, but since it uses active crossovers, even the analogue input signal is converted back to digital before being processed futher. So, essentially, whichever input i use (digital or analogue), ultimately only the DAC of the Dynaudio is used to feed its inbuilt amplifiers.
The good thing with FiiO is that when i use its USB input, toslink input or bluetooth (in receiver mode), it outputs the digital signal simultaneously to all its digital (optical and coaxial) outputs and via its inbuilt DAC to the analogue outputs.
So I have both analogue output and toslink outputs of FiiO connected to the respective Dynaudio inputs.
My Scenario:
The USB and Coax inputs of FiiO support hiresolution (DSD and 192khz files) while the optical input is restricted to 24bit/96khz sampling rate but can upsample to 24bit/192khz in the digital ouputs (both coax and toslink). But since my Dynaudio optical input is restricted at 24bit/96khz, I have disabled upsampling, which can be done from FiiO Control App.
Now coming to plyaback:
FiiO as DAC connected to Dynaudio analogue inputs:
Advantage: No downsampling of DSD or 192kz files
Disadvantage: ADC conversion of analogue signal back to digital inside Dynaudio DSP.
FiiO as digital transport:
Advantage: No ADC/DAC conversions and straight digital input to DAC of Dynaudio
Disadvantage: Downsampling of 32bit-DSD/192kz files to 24bit/96khz files.
Importantly, any difference in sound output: Yes, there is difference in the output.
The analogue source is louder, but has lesser clarity, depth, stage width and instrument separation as compared to the same signal played back via optical input. I am not sure if it is the way FiiO is doing the DAC conversion or it is due to the ADC conversion in Dynaudio's inbuilt DSP.
Intitially the loudness is misleading to make believe that the analogue input is better, but soon ears decipher that it is more coloured.
To answer your query about the DAC performance of FiiO, i will do one thing. i also have a Teac DAC which is very very good, but it does not have digital outputs and only analogue. I will run the same tracks via both FiiO and the Teac to Dynaudio and check if the DACs are making the difference or the ADC conversion of Dynaudio.
Overall FiiO BTA30 pro in my current chain is a beneficial addition as it has unlimited options all of which are useful to me. its Bluetooth performance in both AptxHD and LDAC modes are topclass aswell.
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MasTerasTrix
Active Member
Yes. What you say makes sense and maybe it was the great experience that added to it.
siddharthdas
Active Member
I am often much surprised by the amount of conversation around interconnects. In my very humble opinion a great cable is one that adds nothing to the input signal. I.e. low L,C, and R values, plus the correct characteristic impedance. It's plain engineering. If it doesn't measure well, then its crap. And those like like mogami that publish values, you can be sure of what you are getting. https://www.redco.com/Mogami-36-Series.html these are the ones I get from the US. But then there's shipping and customsSharing My personal experience with an Indian Brand named SONIC PLUMBER which makes PRO Audio Cables and Motocross Gear which literally blew my limited expectations about " Audio Cables Enhancing SQ " into smithereens.
All this started when a 3.5mm to RCA cable (MX brand) that connected my TV and Edifier HT needed replacement.I was furious since I had bought this cable 7 months ago from the MX store in Bangalore shelling out 1.1k for it after the executive nailed me with gyaan about all the tech that went into this cable, it's sturdy build etc etc resulting in great sound performance.(However that was short lived and the cable gave way sooner than expected, sunlight through the window behind the Tv cabinet in the living room may be the reason for it to get hardened and splitting near the connectors)
Have 2 primary sources that include :
1. VU TV connected to a Edifier HT (30w)that's mainly used for movies and OTT.
2. Fiio BTA30 pro + Topping amp and DAC connected to Wharfdale Diamond 225 .Mostly use a laptop , Android Phone to play music via bluetooth Ldac, and Spotify for streaming.
I wasnt convinced when it came to audio cables enhancing SQ and the insanely exhorbitant prices quoted by few companies stating oxygen free, twisted, RF insulated and what not.Reading about
them got me confused further and it was clear that there were 2 groups of people. One set that believed in audio cables making a difference and the other believing that it was plain mumbo jumbo. I clearly belonged to the latter.
However, like the saying "The proof of the pudding lies in eating it" .Exactly my situation as i was unaware of the pleasant surprise that awaited me in the near future. A friend of mine who is a bass guitarist for a well known band suggested that i try "SONIC PLUMBER" and that I won't be disappointed, Told me he got his cables custom made from them and that they used Neutrik connectors ( i had no freaking clue what Neutrik connectors were, nor did i care since I was planning to buy a local cable and be done with it for 1/10th the cost of my previous one ). But since I trusted his deep knowledge of music and instruments along with attention to detail and technicality ,i decided to give it a shot and noted down the contact details.
The Next day i get in touch with Brian Norona from Sonic Plumber via wats app with my requirement and asked him if they were running any diwali offers .Got a reply within a minute along with a link to his website, asked me to take a look and assured me that the prices were already discounted on the site. Browsed through and found Audio cables along with Motocross Gear for sale( apparently the owner happens to be a Moto Buff ).
Found what I needed & Placed my order through the website and got my tracking number within 5 minutes of placing my order along with an estimated delivery date.
Within 24hrs the parcel landed in Bangalore,but took another 2 days for it to reach my address courtesy the shabby DTDC courier service.The parcel had the cable neatly bubble wrapped and a few cheap decals with the company logo.
The cable has a 5 year warranty against manufacturing defects.Comes with a velcro cable tie attached to it with company name printed. The 3.5mm jack and the RCA connectors are made of metal and have gold plated ends.On the whole it's a cable well made from an Indian Brand.
Now here comes the best part or you could say - My moment of truth. I plugged the cable into the tv and rca connects to the HT while having no clue about the kind of surprise /extraordinary experience that i was in for ( it was just a mundane task of changing a damaged cable with a new one and go about using it .Simple)
Now that everything was set i Sat back on the couch and turned on the TV only to hit the mute on the remote instantly ,Checked to see if the volume had accidentally been increased which was not the case, it was exactly the same and this was the same level i was comfortable with, while watching movies or Netflix series before I swapped cables.
Now at that time we were five of us in the living room watching a live show of a band called Evergray via a DVD, ....BUT SOMETHING HAD CHANGED ......within a few seconds i noticed all the 5 including me having a weird smile on our faces along with the same question. What the hecks happening ? How could the same system sound so different , full of life, clearer seperation of instruments,tighter bass , the soundstage had suddenly expanded four fold. It was like i had changed all my speakers and got higher spec ones instead. Which was not the case, everything was just the same. Could a simple audio cable make such a huge difference to the SQ ? It was sheer disbelief at first and my unwillingness to accept the truth that was hitting right at my ear drums every second.
For the next hour or so not a soul spoke nor moved from his seat as it was pure joy that we all experienced along with what we had missed so long. After a few hours of tripping on music my friends left while I still had the question? How could a simple cable make such a difference ? So i unplugged the cable ,connected it to my 2nd source and started playing some psy trance. OMG the Wharfdales never sounded this great before and what a trip it was. This went on for the whole night as there was no way I could get enough of what kept reaching my eardrum.
The only reason my listening spree had to end was my Dad who came over and was on the verge of spitting in my face for keeping him up all night with the weird sounds from PsyTrance. Can't tell you how excited I was, just like a kid with his new toy & not getting enough time to play with it. That's how I felt along with being grateful to my buddy for introducing me to this brand that costed me way lesser than what I had paid for previously.
WAY FORWARD :
Infact I'm all ready to place my second order for RCA connects to connect my amp to the Diamond 225 as i find this bang for your buck. Also plan to order a custom cable that's nowhere to be found.One that has a 3.5mm plug and a usb jack that goes into a printer at the other end. Want to use this with amps like the Topping VX2 (FDA) having Usb input but no Bluetooth ( plug the 3.5 into BT and the other end into the DAC/AMP)
DISCLAIMER:
I am in no way related to nor affiliated with this company nor do I have any vested interest in promoting it's products.
The only reason i decided to write my first ever on this forum is that I'm extremely thrilled and happy that a myth i believed in got busted and also to help other fellow members who love music and movies but have genuine financial constraints or mental constraints while buying hifi cables from brands like Nordost, Audio quest, chord ,VDH etc while still being able to enjoy great SQ from an Indian Brand that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Many might find it outrageous that i had to write about a simple audio cable when they have many more from top brands.kindly excuse me if you find this overbearing and unnecessary as this was not my intention. I just wanted folks like me to enjoy some great gear within everyone's reach.
TECH WISE - i have no clue about what kind of cable goes into making this , or ohms its rated at etc .i just know that music sounds great after using them and I'm enjoying every moment of it.
Kindly feel free to share your feedback incase you have used any gear from this company coz I'm sure there are other FM's who are aware & have used products from this company and who may completely disagree with what I have to say. That is perfectly fine as you are seasoned audiophiles with tonnes of experience and knowledge from the years n years of pursuing it as a passion.
Pic for reference Below:
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
True @siddharthdas . What you wrote is 100% true but not many appreciate what is characteristic impedance and that governs the signal loss. And more importantly EM waves in audio range take a different route and need special treatment to move through the input of the amp and reach the speakers.
While the same EM waves at IF range or RF range in radios have no issues making their way through the maze of L, C, R, transistors, diodes etc. and reach the speaker at the same time as it is transmitted. So I listen to radio now
and stopped reading about audio interconnects, speaker wires etc. or try to reason out folks.PCA
Active Member
Where can I find the L, C and R values of the Mogami cable you shared a link to?
siddharthdas
Active Member
PCA
Active Member
I could not find them online. I assumed you knew, since you were using them
siddharthdas
Active Member
Thank you @ZzZzZ
PCA
Active Member
Thank you!
Do you think the interconnect cable (you shared the link to) is Part No. 2803 mentioned on page 63 of the PDF file?
My enquiries are only an attempt to understand how (if at all possible) a lay audio enthusiast like me can choose and obtain cables which measure well and which do not cost a bomb, without relying on subjective views of FMs / reviewers as regards audible effects of such cables
this is an excellent article on why characteristic impedance is irrelevant with respect to speaker cables and why it does not act as a transmission line within audio frequencies or for that matter even well above audio frequencies as-well. A very very long one....
https://sound-au.com/cable-z.htm
https://sound-au.com/cable-z.htm
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
I have printed it out for tonight read
Must be something sensible. Still, an exotic interconnect or speaker cable should sound good , after all credit card has been swiped. I read another article sometime back that some folks may have to protect their cables from theft even. "audio insurance" a new business to venture into.
All discussion is based on SS amplifier. In tube amplifier the output impedance is known which is same as LS. I using 2.5 ohm + 0.22uF at the LS end to mat h with my cable CI. If I remove this my LS efficiency reduces and the setup becomes a little bright.
generally with tube amps, its input (source impedance) and output impedance are very close unlike in SS amps where the input impedance can be 10 to 100 times higher. So the speaker cable does not act as a transmission line with SS amps and characteristic impedance (CI) is not a parameter to bother about.
But even with tube amps, unless the CI is very very close in value to the source and output impedance (which are usually close in tube amps), for the entire bandwidth, CI should not be a criterion.
But adding a Zobel network is not detrimental to the music bandwidth (of course depending on the choses values of the resistor and capacitor) if it does improve the final output as with your combination of tube amplifier and speaker.
But left to me, I do not subscribe to using a cable as a tone control.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
All this has already been done, dusted and tucked away quite a while ago by Bateman.
See: https://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Speaker_Amp_Interaction.pdf
Though, if one is looking for oversimplified stuff to justify one's personal biases/preferences, please look elsewhere.
See: https://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Speaker_Amp_Interaction.pdf
Though, if one is looking for oversimplified stuff to justify one's personal biases/preferences, please look elsewhere.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Sharing My personal experience with an Indian Brand named SONIC PLUMBER which makes PRO Audio Cables and Motocross Gear which literally blew my limited expectations about " Audio Cables Enhancing SQ " into smithereens.
All this started when a 3.5mm to RCA cable (MX brand) that connected my TV and Edifier HT needed replacement.I was furious since I had bought this cable 7 months ago from the MX store in Bangalore shelling out 1.1k for it after the executive nailed me with gyaan about all the tech that went into this cable, it's sturdy build etc etc resulting in great sound performance.(However that was short lived and the cable gave way sooner than expected, sunlight through the window behind the Tv cabinet in the living room may be the reason for it to get hardened and splitting near the connectors)
Have 2 primary sources that include :
1. VU TV connected to a Edifier HT (30w)that's mainly used for movies and OTT.
2. Fiio BTA30 pro + Topping amp and DAC connected to Wharfdale Diamond 225 .Mostly use a laptop , Android Phone to play music via bluetooth Ldac, and Spotify for streaming.
I wasnt convinced when it came to audio cables enhancing SQ and the insanely exhorbitant prices quoted by few companies stating oxygen free, twisted, RF insulated and what not.Reading about
them got me confused further and it was clear that there were 2 groups of people. One set that believed in audio cables making a difference and the other believing that it was plain mumbo jumbo. I clearly belonged to the latter.
However, like the saying "The proof of the pudding lies in eating it" .Exactly my situation as i was unaware of the pleasant surprise that awaited me in the near future. A friend of mine who is a bass guitarist for a well known band suggested that i try "SONIC PLUMBER" and that I won't be disappointed, Told me he got his cables custom made from them and that they used Neutrik connectors ( i had no freaking clue what Neutrik connectors were, nor did i care since I was planning to buy a local cable and be done with it for 1/10th the cost of my previous one ). But since I trusted his deep knowledge of music and instruments along with attention to detail and technicality ,i decided to give it a shot and noted down the contact details.
The Next day i get in touch with Brian Norona from Sonic Plumber via wats app with my requirement and asked him if they were running any diwali offers .Got a reply within a minute along with a link to his website, asked me to take a look and assured me that the prices were already discounted on the site. Browsed through and found Audio cables along with Motocross Gear for sale( apparently the owner happens to be a Moto Buff ).
Found what I needed & Placed my order through the website and got my tracking number within 5 minutes of placing my order along with an estimated delivery date.
Within 24hrs the parcel landed in Bangalore,but took another 2 days for it to reach my address courtesy the shabby DTDC courier service.The parcel had the cable neatly bubble wrapped and a few cheap decals with the company logo.
The cable has a 5 year warranty against manufacturing defects.Comes with a velcro cable tie attached to it with company name printed. The 3.5mm jack and the RCA connectors are made of metal and have gold plated ends.On the whole it's a cable well made from an Indian Brand.
Now here comes the best part or you could say - My moment of truth. I plugged the cable into the tv and rca connects to the HT while having no clue about the kind of surprise /extraordinary experience that i was in for ( it was just a mundane task of changing a damaged cable with a new one and go about using it .Simple)
Now that everything was set i Sat back on the couch and turned on the TV only to hit the mute on the remote instantly ,Checked to see if the volume had accidentally been increased which was not the case, it was exactly the same and this was the same level i was comfortable with, while watching movies or Netflix series before I swapped cables.
Now at that time we were five of us in the living room watching a live show of a band called Evergray via a DVD, ....BUT SOMETHING HAD CHANGED ......within a few seconds i noticed all the 5 including me having a weird smile on our faces along with the same question. What the hecks happening ? How could the same system sound so different , full of life, clearer seperation of instruments,tighter bass , the soundstage had suddenly expanded four fold. It was like i had changed all my speakers and got higher spec ones instead. Which was not the case, everything was just the same. Could a simple audio cable make such a huge difference to the SQ ? It was sheer disbelief at first and my unwillingness to accept the truth that was hitting right at my ear drums every second.
For the next hour or so not a soul spoke nor moved from his seat as it was pure joy that we all experienced along with what we had missed so long. After a few hours of tripping on music my friends left while I still had the question? How could a simple cable make such a difference ? So i unplugged the cable ,connected it to my 2nd source and started playing some psy trance. OMG the Wharfdales never sounded this great before and what a trip it was. This went on for the whole night as there was no way I could get enough of what kept reaching my eardrum.
The only reason my listening spree had to end was my Dad who came over and was on the verge of spitting in my face for keeping him up all night with the weird sounds from PsyTrance
WAY FORWARD :
Infact I'm all ready to place my second order for RCA connects to connect my amp to the Diamond 225 as i find this bang for your buck. Also plan to order a custom cable that's nowhere to be found.One that has a 3.5mm plug and a usb jack that goes into a printer at the other end. Want to use this with amps like the Topping VX2 (FDA) having Usb input but no Bluetooth ( plug the 3.5 into BT and the other end into the DAC/AMP)
DISCLAIMER:
I am in no way related to nor affiliated with this company nor do I have any vested interest in promoting it's products.
The only reason i decided to write my first ever on this forum is that I'm extremely thrilled and happy that a myth i believed in got busted and also to help other fellow members who love music and movies but have genuine financial constraints or mental constraints while buying hifi cables from brands like Nordost, Audio quest, chord ,VDH etc while still being able to enjoy great SQ from an Indian Brand that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Many might find it outrageous that i had to write about a simple audio cable when they have many more from top brands.kindly excuse me if you find this overbearing and unnecessary as this was not my intention. I just wanted folks like me to enjoy some great gear within everyone's reach.
TECH WISE - i have no clue about what kind of cable goes into making this , or ohms its rated at etc .i just know that music sounds great after using them and I'm enjoying every moment of it.
Kindly feel free to share your feedback incase you have used any gear from this company coz I'm sure there are other FM's who are aware & have used products from this company and who may completely disagree with what I have to say. That is perfectly fine as you are seasoned audiophiles with tonnes of experience and knowledge from the years n years of pursuing it as a passion.
Pic for reference Below:
Love the way you’ve expressed your experience, without holding back. I was looking for a 3.5mm to RCA cable for my own use, and hit upon Sonic Plumber. I liked their page, so I looked up their website and realise their audio cables are used by pros. So came to the forum to check if there’s any review and found yours. Ordering it - not much to loose at Rs 1k, let‘s see how it turns out.
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