Squeezebox V/S DAC Discusssion

[GeorgeO]

I've just gone through this thread-I was out of town for the past three weeks, so couldnt contribute. As some of you may know, I have been singing the praises of the SB for many years. I got my SB Classic about 4 years ago, and an SB Duet last year. I dont think there is any other gadget that offers similar performance-since I also own a media player, I can easily compare what they do! They are not comparable.

My Classic alas gave up the ghost, one fine day-after 4 years of outstanding service just before I went to the US so I took it with me, spoke nicely to them and they said they would replace it, no questions asked, if I shipped it back. I did that and await furthur developments.

Cant beat this kind of attitude for customer service!

 

[Kevian]

Btw, I am talking with Dev (Bass Treble) to check the price of SB Duet in singapore , if I get a close pricing to aramex or borderlinx then will get from singapore. If not lets pull the plug from Aramex. Are you in ?

What is your account number? hyeah:

 

[Kevian]

Me too in the same situation. I need an extra pair of ears to confirm. Need not be qualified. Dont worry about qualification. It should be the way that if you dont hear it dont worry abouot it.

Thats what I have done lately.

Thanks
Pandu

+1..I will call you on Monday Pandu. Is it okay on weekdays?

 

[pdhanwada]

Weekdays is fine for me. I am free until 1PM.

Weekends anytime.

Thanks
Pandu

 

[Bluu]

OK, so I spent the past few hours listening to my favorite tracks via the AudioZone DAC1 as an outboard DAC to the Duet and I must say the difference is big!

The DAC does not have a chassis/housing and is a fully exposed unit. Like the top part of the image

Tracks used for testing:

1. Dire Straits - Private Investigations (for the bridge)
2. Metallica - Enter Sandman (nuff sed!)
3. Norah Jones - Chasing Pirates (female vocals)
4. Leonard Cohen - Waiting for a Miracle (male vocals)
5. Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (imaging and soundstaging)
6. Sukhwinder Singh - Omkara (hindi music)
7. Jagjit Singh - Yeh Daulat Bhi Le Lo (male vocals)
8. Mussorgsky - Night on a Bare Mountain (rousing classical)
9. Clint Mansell - Lux Aeterna (less rousing piece)
10. Dire Straits - You and Your Friend (guitar)
11. Joe Bonamassa - Black Lung Heartache (blues guitar riffs)
12. Donald Fagen - Morph the Cat (bass line. DAMN!)
13. Tom Petty - Saving Grace (rock n roll)

So, as you can see, the variety is there. The main improvements I noticed were:

1. Bass performance - the lower end sounded more musical, tighter and much more resolved.

2. Overall slam - the overall sound reproduction had MUCH more detail, resolution and BODY.

3. Overall refinement and musicality - I wanted to listen to more music with the DAC1 plugged in. After an hour or so, I switched back to the Duet's DAC and the difference was more noticeable than before. It sounded like the edge had been taken off.

Now, I will say this - it took a while for me to start appreciating these changes. Some of these songs I have heard hundreds of times before and I found them to be even more involving with the AZ-DAC1 but the difference is not night and day. Nor do the improvements jump out at you. A fine testament to the onboard DAC. Also, I have a Duet and have heard that the Touch has an even better DAC.

In summation, quality of music reproduction can be improved but the on-board DAC is a gem!

Associated equipment (with due respect to Stereophile):

1. Odyssey Syren Extreme loudspeaker
2. Audio Analogue Primo Cento hybrid integrated amp (100wpc)
3. Einstein Audio ICs
4. RidgeStreet S/PDIF cable
5. Usher Rapport speaker cable

Thanks go out to RoC for lending me his DAC, S/PDIF cable and ICs.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.
Cheers!

 

[vasishta.sushant]

If someone can only confirm if MP3s will sound better on this one than Marantz CD6003, I'll be in a much better position to focus on this thing.

I am all confused since I cant demo either of them.

 

[Cnu]

Had any one tried Asus Xonar Essensce ST internal sound card...i bought it few months ago for the sake of driving my old logitech z5500 speakers....and then i sold my speakers and bought a stereo integrated amp and quad 11L classic speakers....the sound card has front output @ 124dB SNR...its a award winning internal DAC to pc...im presently listening through this...you can audition once and decide any

 

[TaureanBull]

If someone can only confirm if MP3s will sound better on this one than Marantz CD6003, I'll be in a much better position to focus on this thing.

I am all confused since I cant demo either of them.

Two things.

Firstly, mp3 below 320 kbps will have its disadvantages. The shortcoming would be clearly audible.

Secondly, I assume that you mean mp3s in digital form rather than CDs. Using CDP's USB port for playing digital files is criminal offence and punishable under HFV Sec 420.

Its simple if your collection is mostly digital buy a streamer (anyone you like not necessarily SB). If your collection is mostly CDs, then go for a CDP.

Once again, if you are planning to buy CDP-6003 and using its USB port for music then you are not doing justice to the piece.

 

[vasishta.sushant]

Then its all gone
Touch + DAC is gonna cost me much more than the Marantz but no point in doing that. I am very sure I'd rather pay my internet service provided than buying CDs (I admit I am a download junkie).

 

[TaureanBull]

OK, so I spent the past few hours listening to my favorite tracks via the AudioZone DAC1 as an outboard DAC to the Duet and I must say the difference is big!

Thats a great review. This DAC costs about $1000, if I am not wrong.

How about a comparison with Duet's DAC? I mean using both standalone. I guess the results would be same.

What I had gathered from others is that to improve upon SB you have to go at much higher level; something like the one you have. A DAC in SB's price range like DACMAGIC etc would be beaten by SB.

 

[TaureanBull]

Then its all gone
Touch + DAC is gonna cost me much more than the Marantz but no point in doing that. I am very sure I'd rather pay my internet service provided than buying CDs (I admit I am a download junkie).

Hey you dont need a DAC with SB. Of course there is no end to upgrades. In case you are download junkie just go for SB.

You wont any difference between the SQ of FLACs through SB and CD through CDP. Also no difference between mp3 through SB and mp3 through USB of CDP.

Bluu is scaring people out here.

 

[Bluu]

Then its all gone
Touch + DAC is gonna cost me much more than the Marantz but no point in doing that. I am very sure I'd rather pay my internet service provided than buying CDs (I admit I am a download junkie).

You don't need to get the Touch and a DAC. The DAC on the Touch is very good and you can always upgrade later. Also, I've only recently decided to buy CDs in order to show solidarity with the artists whose music we love. Even though I don't own a CDP, I'm planning to rip the discs to FLAC and play wirelessly using the Duet. The actual CDs will probably end up in my car.

Thats a great review. This DAC costs about $1000, if I am not wrong.

How about a comparison with Duet's DAC? I mean using both standalone. I guess the results would be same.

What I had gathered from others is that to improve upon SB you have to go at much higher level; something like the one you have. A DAC in SB's price range like DACMAGIC etc would be beaten by SB.

Thanks TB! Yes, the DAC1 is just a shade under 1K USD. There is a used one available at a yummy 25K but know that this DAC is not very futuristic. Only one digital S/PDIF input and support only for 16/48 resolution. However, the level of detail, purity and musical approach of this DAC is genius.

The comparison I have provided above is between the DAC1 and the Duet's DAC. Not sure if I understand your request.

Lastly, yes, moving to a budget DAC like the DacMagic or rDac may be a step sideways rather than forward.

 

[Bluu]

Bluu is scaring people out here.

LOL! That is not the intention. Just so happens that on my system, I am able to tell the difference quite easily after a prolonged listening session. However, I will repeat myself - the DAC on the Squeezebox series of products is very good and you only need an upgrade if you have maxed out its potential and have dough to spend on a nice high-end piece.

 

[odyssey]

A couple of things - the DAC is not the very same as the AZ-1 but a custom version of it. The Volume levels would need to be matched for any ideal comparison, the AZ-1 has a much lower volume level. Finally, the best upgrade one can do on the Squeezebox is the power supply.

cheers

 

[Bluu]

A couple of things - the DAC is not the very same as the AZ-1 but a custom version of it. The Volume levels would need to be matched for any ideal comparison, the AZ-1 has a much lower volume level. Finally, the best upgrade one can do on the Squeezebox is the power supply.

cheers

When I switched between the Duet and the AZ-1, I did not notice any difference in the volume levels at all! I had both the devices connected concurrently and was switching inputs on the amp to choose between the two. What gives?

EDIT: The AZ-1 Custom is running at 1.6v while the Wolfson on the Duet is at 1.7v which is why there was no audible difference.

Thanks for the reminder about the power supply! Am going to ask RoC to start our little DIY project.

 

[Kevian]

Finally, the best upgrade one can do on the Squeezebox is the power supply.cheers

Can I have some explanation on the above quoted part?

cheers!!

 

[Bluu]

Upgrading the PSU of the Squeezebox greatly improves current delivery and quality and in turn can impact the SQ. Bolder Audio and Audiocom sell these as packages. However, they are pretty expensive. Fortunately, it can be done easily and cost-effectively as a DIY project.

Check Audiocom and Google baba for more info about it.

 

[odyssey]

When I switched between the Duet and the AZ-1, I did not notice any difference in the volume levels at all! I had both the devices connected concurrently and was switching inputs on the amp to choose between the two. What gives?

EDIT: The AZ-1 Custom is running at 1.6v while the Wolfson on the Duet is at 1.7v which is why there was no audible difference.

Thanks for the reminder about the power supply! Am going to ask RoC to start our little DIY project.

Those values don't tell you much - the voltage on the DAC chip is probably what is seen on the output as far as the AZ is concerned since there is no active output stage after that DAC. ON the Squeezebox (Duet I am not familiar with) but on the SQ box that I have, there is an active output stage and the voltage is determined on that. You need to get a DB meter to check output, you cant tell the difference easily unless its large enough.
Kevian

On the power supply, the stock one is a very basic switching power supply with barely enough current delivery. LIke it is for any other amp, changing it will be an upgrade.

cheers

 

[Kittu]

Just quick search on that topic google baba said 160$ for avg upgrade and 212 for audiophile upgrade.

 

[Bluu]

You need to get a DB meter to check output, you cant tell the difference easily unless its large enough.

Thanks for the clarification Sridhar! I guess the difference must not have been much since I didn't really hear it.

In spite of this, the sound quality was audibly better. I may take you up on your offer for a demo of the CD07s!