Subwoofer under 20k?

[thevortex]

Vortex,
I think we are missing the point of what a subwoofer does. A sub is meant to add low-freq weight to the whole audio experience. It is normally meant to be felt, not explicitly heard. Ideally, subs carry forward the audio spectrum after your main speakers have reached down to their lowest level. In a good floorstander, this level is around the 30-40Hz mark.
To cite one example, both REL and Quad L have comparably large drivers but are among the best in their price class. I think what you're referring to as far as driver size is concerned is when you use a typical sub-sat system, where the sub does work starting from the lower midrange to the low frequencies. But then, this is not really a subwoofer, just a woofer in a separate cabinet. In that case, you're right...larger driver-> more inertia->slower transient response. However, the classical definition of a subwoofer is one that extends the low-freq reach of the main woofers.

Ajinkya, the frequencies that would only be felt and not heard start from 20 hz onwards. Seriously speaking there are not too many woofers in the price range that Pradski or Anooj are looking for that would go so low.

And while it is important for the subwoofer to go lower than the fronts, it also depends on how it presents the low. Whether it is loose whump or tight slam. If the bass is tight, often times I can make do even with lack of depth in frequency. But that is a personal preference. Some people like echoing, decaying bass notes. There is one for everyone, I guess.

In Pradski's case, the subwoofer also has to be one that goes significantly low than 28hz which is how low his Diamond 9.6's go. And that, as you know, is pretty significantly low for a standmounter.

 

[thevortex]

Thanks vortex,

Now i am convinced and polk is out of my list.

I just read your sub woofer choice thread now.

How is the EPOS ? what is the model name

Is it that powerful like you said.

And what is your opinion on Klipsch synergy sw 12 if you happen to know

Thanks

It is the EPOS ELS Sub. It is quite good. It is made to be a musical sub and not necessily an outstanding home theatre unit. Which means while it may not have earth shattering impact, it will be tight with whatever it dishes out without any flab.

I have not heard or felt the Klipsch subwoofer, I am afraid.

 

[venkatcr]

Thanks a lot, Some how this escaped me, since the offer was nested in reply to Venkat CR. So nice of you. Would keep this in mind. If I have understood correctly you live in or arround Chennai. Could you please call end inquire with Torvin about their 1100/1150 range. Any idea about quality of their products etc.

Regards

S. Bhat

Bhat:

Torvin is upgrading their products including their sub woofers. Their new model is called SB80B. It sports a 12 inch woofer, and pumps out 400 watts. It has a cut off at 80Hz, but can go down to 40Hz.

Cheers

 

[thevortex]

Thanks Vortex,

Is EPOS earth shattering bass?

My preferences are movies - 80 and music -20. My dielemma is as I said in many other posts. When I started to listen music coming out of these FS's, i was hurt thinking of the crap I was listening and music is such an enjoyable thing. Anyways its mainly movies. I thoroughly enjoy movies and games on my PC thru logitech z 5500(2 years) and would do so but its not enough and its only a good multimedia speaker package.

Also, Vortex what is this 'standmounter' ?

Though IKON sub was 48K quoted it was very satisfying, also with KEF. IF I am buying, so will be only in hyderabad and only the brands available here. Hence asking about them.

Budget is alright till 35k for sub and can extend till 50K for a sub but sure will need little time since only 2.1 setup till 5-6 months.

i do not intend to change the subject hence please keep the rush for sub going.

thanks again.

I am pretty sure, based on your requirements, that the EPOS ELS Sub is not the right fit. The Polk DSW Pro 500/600 will not be a bad fit for your requirements and would even work out far cheaper than the Ikon or KEF subs. But do hear all of these before making a decision.

 

[pradski]

Anooj,

Standmounter means I think bookshelf speakers, i e you mount them on a stand.

i do not know if there is anything else to that.

 

[bnsbhat]

Bhat:

Torvin is upgrading their products including their sub woofers. Their new model is called SB80B. It sports a 12 inch woofer, and pumps out 400 watts. It has a cut off at 80Hz, but can go down to 40Hz.

Cheers

So, is it good for pure music(no home theater apps), will it be priced <20k, would appreciate your posting as the thread develops.
Regards

S. Bhat

 

[anooj30299301]

Vortex, pradski - thank you for your inputs, these are well take and shall come back after listening to Polk 500/600.

regards,
Anooj

 

[venkatcr]

Vortex, pradski - thank you for your inputs, these are well take and shall come back after listening to Polk 500/600.

regards,
Anooj

Sorry Bhat, I forgot to mention the price. It is 16,500 plus taxes. I have not heard this sub, so I cannot say anything. I am planning to hear it during the weekend if time and my wife permits. She feels jealous of HiFiVision nowadays !!!

Cheers

 

[bnsbhat]

Sorry Bhat, I forgot to mention the price. It is 16,500 plus taxes. I have not heard this sub, so I cannot say anything. I am planning to hear it during the weekend if time and my wife permits. She feels jealous of HiFiVision nowadays !!!

Cheers

Please post your thoughts after audition, wife permitting!

 

[anm]

What do you guys suggest for a two sub config?
Would it be a good idea to have a cheaper musical sub that is fast and handles slightly higher frequency range, while another one picks up very low frequency with extra power?

 

[ajinkya]

Since we are on the subject of a subwoofer <20K, is it possible to buy a "real" powered subwoofer under 20k.

S.Bhat,
Unfortunately, at that price range, Vortex is right; it will be difficult to find one that goes that low. For 20K, you're going to get a sub that will add heft and weight to your system, without delving into the 20Hz and lower frequencies.
One other 'sub' I can think of is the Lithos...only by the reviews and feedback here. It powers their Noa1 sub-sat system and may be musical and weighty enough for your needs. But I would prefer someone who actually owns a Lithos system to give an informed review. I heard that Lithos is opening their showroom in Bandra soon and maybe you can audition it there yourself.

 

[ajinkya]

Ajinkya, the frequencies that would only be felt and not heard start from 20 hz onwards. Seriously speaking there are not too many woofers in the price range that Pradski or Anooj are looking for that would go so low.

Vortex,
I agree with you. Yes,it is difficult to get a subwoofer that goes so low at Rs 20K. In Pradski's case, if the speakers are going as low as 28Hz (on paper at least) I am not sure how much more weight a cheap sub would add to the audio spectrum. Hence, my post.

 

[neo]

Hey! ANM.
Extremely tough to make it work, as they would not sound coherent if you intend to make them work together.
May be adding an active crossover before the subs may help. But even then it would be tough to make the bass sound merge as one.
I would say just buy a better sub. If still intended to have 2 subs buy similar ones & try to find the optimum placement.
Cheers

 

[thevortex]

Ajinkya - I have heard the Diamond 9.5 and can attest to the speakers powerful bass abilities. It is supposed to go to 30 Hz and it goes pretty darn close to that. So, I do believe the Diamond 9.6 is capable of going somewhere close to 28 hz. That is awesome.

In fact if I were in Pradski's place, I would put off the sub purchase for some time. Because with a front speaker that delves so low, we would be doing a disservice to the whole system to plonk a sub there which does not do justice to it.

 

[venkatcr]

What do you guys suggest for a two sub config?
Would it be a good idea to have a cheaper musical sub that is fast and handles slightly higher frequency range, while another one picks up very low frequency with extra power?

Even if you managed to connected two subs with different behavioural patterns, how would you manage to instruct the amp's electronics to send the proper data to the correct sub?

There are just two ways to connect a sub in an AVR.

(1) If you have connected your subwoofer to the subwoofer output jack, and set the subwoofer as "On.", the subwoofer will now play Dolby Digital's dedicated Low Frequency Effects bass channel (the Point 1 channel), as well as the bass of any other speakers selected as "Small."

(2) If you connect your subwoofer to your system in any way (such as via L&R pre-outs, L&R speaker outputs, subwoofer out), and set sub as "Off" in the amp's bass management, bass from all channels will now go to the sub. In this method, the sub woofer's low pass filter will take effect and filter out all frequencies about the set thresh hold.

Yes, you can set the internal crossovers of the two subs to filter different frequencies, but then you will completely do away with the bass management of the amp, or set the subs as 'Full' speakers.

Cheers

 

[ajinkya]

Vortex,
In that case, I second your opinion. Pradski should save up and buy a 'real' subwoofer that does real justice to the lower octaves of his system

 

[anm]

I wish I knew how. I just thought maybe that's possible.

Even if you managed to connected two subs with different behavioural patterns, how would you manage to instruct the amp's electronics to send the proper data to the correct sub?

 

[bnsbhat]

S.Bhat,
Unfortunately, at that price range, Vortex is right; it will be difficult to find one that goes that low. For 20K, you're going to get a sub that will add heft and weight to your system, without delving into the 20Hz and lower frequencies.

After sifting through this and many other knowledgeable threads, I concur with you. 20k will not buy a decent sub. Like I said after reading reviews, I have come to my first choice which is Klipsch Synergy sub-12. This is sold by www.sumeria.in. The total price inclusive of VAT and Transport quoted is <27000. BTW I live in a moffusil town, so audition is out of question.

If you have time go thru customer reviews on this sub at Best Buy

Your thoughts please.

 

[pradski]

Hello everybody

The klipsch synergy 12 lowest frequency is around 36 to 40Hz. And it is not supposed to be good. Only their referrence series is good but they are quite expensive. Around this price only thing that fits for lowest freq is polk 600 which is 22Hz. And it is 26.6 k in sumaria. And if only we can bargain we may get it for 1k less.

I know for this price as far as I saw online nobody is giving a sub of that low freq

 

[anm]

But suwoofers (not all though) have crossover switch for upper freq. Will that not be helpful in sending different low freq ranges to two subs? The receiver in this may not be aware of the two subs. Not sure if it can impact auto caliberation, but volume too is there on subs.

Disclaimer - I own just a passive sub driven by my onkyo. I am yet to buy a serious hifi (read that mid fi) system.

regards

Even if you managed to connected two subs with different behavioural patterns, how would you manage to instruct the amp's electronics to send the proper data to the correct sub?

There are just two ways to connect a sub in an AVR.

(1) If you have connected your subwoofer to the subwoofer output jack, and set the subwoofer as "On.", the subwoofer will now play Dolby Digital's dedicated Low Frequency Effects bass channel (the Point 1 channel), as well as the bass of any other speakers selected as "Small."

(2) If you connect your subwoofer to your system in any way (such as via L&R pre-outs, L&R speaker outputs, subwoofer out), and set sub as "Off" in the amp's bass management, bass from all channels will now go to the sub. In this method, the sub woofer's low pass filter will take effect and filter out all frequencies about the set thresh hold.

Yes, you can set the internal crossovers of the two subs to filter different frequencies, but then you will completely do away with the bass management of the amp, or set the subs as 'Full' speakers.

Cheers