subwoofer with pure direct

doors666

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Hi Guys,

I have an rx-v663. when I bought it, I tested it first with my friend's speaker sets. In pure direct mode, the subwoofer didnt work. Then I did some research and found out that the subwoofer does not work with pure direct. Is there a work around for this issue. I am looking for a sub woofer, but I dont want to miss out on the pure direct mode for music as its significantly better than normal mode operation. How are other people with sub woofers overcoming this issue.
What about the pre-outs, or using speaker level outputs from B speakers in A+B mode, what happens to cross overs in that case.

Thanx
 

spirovious

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Hi Guys,

I have an rx-v663. when I bought it, I tested it first with my friend's speaker sets. In pure direct mode, the subwoofer didnt work. Then I did some research and found out that the subwoofer does not work with pure direct. Is there a work around for this issue. I am looking for a sub woofer, but I dont want to miss out on the pure direct mode for music as its significantly better than normal mode operation. How are other people with sub woofers overcoming this issue.
What about the pre-outs, or using speaker level outputs from B speakers in A+B mode, what happens to cross overs in that case.

Thanx

Sub cannot work for music in puredirect mode as your music will be 2.0 & not 2.1,but it will work in pure direct mov as it has 5.1.
For music ,you can opt for stereo keeping bass,treble zero & enjoy sub.
 

anm

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take a sub that has speaker level in/ outs. My cheapo onkyo sub has that.
Connect avr to sub, and then speaker outs of the sub to your speakers.

regards


Hi Guys,

I have an rx-v663. when I bought it, I tested it first with my friend's speaker sets. In pure direct mode, the subwoofer didnt work. Then I did some research and found out that the subwoofer does not work with pure direct. Is there a work around for this issue. I am looking for a sub woofer, but I dont want to miss out on the pure direct mode for music as its significantly better than normal mode operation. How are other people with sub woofers overcoming this issue.
What about the pre-outs, or using speaker level outputs from B speakers in A+B mode, what happens to cross overs in that case.

Thanx
 

anm

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btw, congrats on your purchase :yahoo: - I may have already congratulated you in another thread but that's ok
How much did you pay for it and where did you buy it from?
 

anm

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yes I noticed that you knew it but still missed it :licklips: and took the opportunity to show off my knowledge, before you could come back and edit your own post :lol:

Sub cannot work for music in puredirect mode as your music will be 2.0 & not 2.1,but it will work in pure direct mov as it has 5.1.
For music ,you can opt for stereo keeping bass,treble zero & enjoy sub.
 

spirovious

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yes I noticed that you knew it but still missed it :licklips: and took the opportunity to show off my knowledge, before you could come back and edit your own post :lol:

Very clever:eek:hyeah::clapping::clapping:
 

venkatcr

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The Yamaha has a 'Straight' mode where it does not process the audio signal at all and sends it to the Front L&R as well as the sub.

As Anm and Spiro have been saying, in 'Pure Direct' and 'Stereo' modes, the Yamaha will send data only as 2.0.

Cheers
 

anm

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damn! venkat took it from me!
Hope straight mode will work for you. Try it out.

The Yamaha has a 'Straight' mode where it does not process the audio signal at all and sends it to the Front L&R as well as the sub.

As Anm and Spiro have been saying, in 'Pure Direct' and 'Stereo' modes, the Yamaha will send data only as 2.0.

Cheers
 

spirovious

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Let me clear one thing,in ONK Direct(pure direct) will not make sub work directly,
but Stereo mode can process 2.1
 

Shuvc

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take a sub that has speaker level in/ outs. My cheapo onkyo sub has that.
Connect avr to sub, and then speaker outs of the sub to your speakers.

So you're saying connect the front speaker outs from the AVR to the speaker in of the sub. And then speaker out from the sub to the speakers?
Does this mean the XO of the sub will determine the frequency range going to the speakers?
Or will the speakers still get a full range signal - with the sub tapping the LF from the speaker in signal?
 

doors666

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btw, congrats on your purchase :yahoo: - I may have already congratulated you in another thread but that's ok
How much did you pay for it and where did you buy it from?

thanx, got it from US, from a yamaha dealer for about 450$. its 110v. A couple of months ago i made a trip to US and got me the rcvr, headphones, surround speakers, ipod, ipod dock (these two for my wife), kids toys etc. Productive trip:eek:hyeah:

OK, the speaker level i/o will work fine, but then what happens when I want to watch a movie, the RCA mono will be the one to be used. As I understand, a sub should not be connected using both the inputs as there is no pre-amp in a sub to do the selection. So I will need to change cables every time the usage changes. Secondly, if the sub is off, will the signal still go to the speakers?

Using Straight mode or 2.1 stereo mode does not match up to the quality in pure direct mode, pure direct sound quality is far superior. so its not an option unless everything else has been ruled out.
 

spirovious

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So you're saying connect the front speaker outs from the AVR to the speaker in of the sub. And then speaker out from the sub to the speakers?
Does this mean the XO of the sub will determine the frequency range going to the speakers?
Or will the speakers still get a full range signal - with the sub tapping the LF from the speaker in signal?

In this way we will be using SUB XO ,so low freq will go to sub & remaining to spk.
 

venkatcr

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So you're saying connect the front speaker outs from the AVR to the speaker in of the sub. And then speaker out from the sub to the speakers? Does this mean the XO of the sub will determine the frequency range going to the speakers? Or will the speakers still get a full range signal - with the sub tapping the LF from the speaker in signal?

Certain subs (not all) have 'Left' and 'Right' speaker level inputs and outputs. You can connect the amplified outputs from an amp or a receiver to such a sub woofer. This is recommended only when your AVR or amp does not have a sub/LFE out.

From the sub's speaker level output, connect another pair of speakers cables and take them to your front L&R speakers.

In the AVR, set the front speakers to large and the sub as 'no' so that all frequencies are sent to the Front L&R speakers.

The amplifier will do no bass management and send all the data to the sub. The sub will hold back frequencies you set as it's cross over, and send the rest to the front L&R speakers.

As I said this is recommended only for an AVR or an amp that does not have bass management or sub.LFE out. For those that do have one, you must always connect the sub to the LFE and the front speakers to the front L&R of the amp. All such amps will have a method by which you can play the music with sub and without sub.

Cheers
 

thevortex

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If you can detect the superiority of Pure Direct over other modes and cannot seemingly live without it then you are a definite candidate for a stereo amp as opposed to a receiver.

This is something I experienced.
 

venkatcr

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OK, the speaker level i/o will work fine, but then what happens when I want to watch a movie, the RCA mono will be the one to be used. As I understand, a sub should not be connected using both the inputs as there is no pre-amp in a sub to do the selection. So I will need to change cables every time the usage changes. Secondly, if the sub is off, will the signal still go to the speakers?

Your statements are confusing. I think we are talking about two different things here. One is the connection between the DVD/CD Player and the AVR and the second is between the AVR and the sub/speakers.

If you want the AVR to decode movie sounds, you MUST connect the DVD Player using a digital co-axial, a optical, or the HDMI cable. When you connect a CD player, you use a RCA cable pair and connect it to the front L&R of the AVR. Remember one thing, you can connect a DVD Player through both the digital connection for multichannel and the stereo RCA cables for stereo music. Depending upon what media you use and what you select in the AVR (DVD or CD), the DVD Player will either send full digital signals or stereo analogue signals. Again this is recommended only if you are positive the DAC and other features of the DVD Player are superior to that of the AVR.

As I mentioned in the previous post, unless you have a highly advanced sub, it does not make sense to connect the sub any way other than the LFE of the 663. The crossover of the AVR will, in most cases, be superior to that of a regular sub.

You are correct in your thought that the sub can be connected only one way. And no, the sub's crossover will not work if the sub is off.

Using Straight mode or 2.1 stereo mode does not match up to the quality in pure direct mode, pure direct sound quality is far superior. so its not an option unless everything else has been ruled out.

The stereo and pure direct are identical in terms of internal circuitry. The only thing Yamaha does additionally in pure direct is to switch off all displays excepting a small green LED. This should not make any difference to the sound signature.

If you want 2.1 for music, you can use the straight mode, or route the speaker level output of front L&R from the AVR to the sub, and make the sub do the cross over. What works better depends a lot upon the quality of the AVR and the sub. There is no other way unless you buy an external bass management unit such as one made by Outlaw Audio.

For those of you who want to listen to two channel music from all speakers of a 5.1 or 7.1, you can set the AVR to use NEO 6 where it will send the audio signals to all speakers. There is no decoding or anything. The sound is just sent to all speakers. If you want proper multichannel music, you have to use a DVD-A or a SACD on a player that understands these media.

Cheers
 

doors666

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Your statements are confusing. I think we are talking about two different things here. One is the connection between the DVD/CD Player and the AVR and the second is between the AVR and the sub/speakers.

No its not, let me try to explain. For music, you connect the sub using speaker level inputs, and speaker level output goes to the speakers. For movies, you connect the LFE to the sub using rca mono, 'coz thats the one that carries the .1 part of 5.1.
Now while listening to music, I need to disconnect the rca mono cable as only one input should be connected at a time to the sub, hence the LFE goes. While watching movies, I need to connect the LFE out, and the rca mono gets connected, but I need to disconnect the speaker level connection, that means reconnecting the LR speakers directly and not through the sub. Big Big pain this is going to be.

If you want the AVR to decode movie sounds, you MUST connect the DVD Player using a digital co-axial, a optical, or the HDMI cable. When you connect a CD player, you use a RCA cable pair and connect it to the front L&R of the AVR. Remember one thing, you can connect a DVD Player through both the digital connection for multichannel and the stereo RCA cables for stereo music. Depending upon what media you use and what you select in the AVR (DVD or CD), the DVD Player will either send full digital signals or stereo analogue signals. Again this is recommended only if you are positive the DAC and other features of the DVD Player are superior to that of the AVR.
Its all connected fine, dvd player thru coaxial, htpc thru coaxial as well as external decoder input. cd and tape thru analog.

As I mentioned in the previous post, unless you have a highly advanced sub, it does not make sense to connect the sub any way other than the LFE of the 663. The crossover of the AVR will, in most cases, be superior to that of a regular sub.
I dont have a sub yet, planning to buy one soon...
The whole point of the thread is to get the sub working with pure direct, and LFE fails there.
You are correct in your thought that the sub can be connected only one way. And no, the sub's crossover will not work if the sub is off.
Correct, but does it atleast pass thru the signal when off. Not that it makes a difference, just curious.
The stereo and pure direct are identical in terms of internal circuitry. The only thing Yamaha does additionally in pure direct is to switch off all displays excepting a small green LED. This should not make any difference to the sound signature.
Is the stereo the same as the straight mode? I hear a lot of difference in sound quality the moment I press the pure direct button. Not only me, but even my wife can detect sound quality improvement, and as far as audio is concerned, she's a nit-wit:)
If you want 2.1 for music, you can use the straight mode, or route the speaker level output of front L&R from the AVR to the sub, and make the sub do the cross over. What works better depends a lot upon the quality of the AVR and the sub. There is no other way unless you buy an external bass management unit such as one made by Outlaw Audio.

For those of you who want to listen to two channel music from all speakers of a 5.1 or 7.1, you can set the AVR to use NEO 6 where it will send the audio signals to all speakers. There is no decoding or anything. The sound is just sent to all speakers. If you want proper multichannel music, you have to use a DVD-A or a SACD on a player that understands these media.

Cheers

Well, as far as music is concerned, more is less. I am happy with 2 channels, dont need 6.
 

doors666

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No, Straight is not the same as Stereo or Pure Direct. As I said Straight is 2.1, while Stereo and Pure Direct are 2.0.

Cheers

thanx venkat and others for your patience while I figure out this thing. Never tried the stereo mode or explore the avr. infact, with two small kids around, I havent yet had time to do the audessey automatic setup on the avr, running it still in factory settings.:mad:
Will try to use the stereo mode and compare to pure direct. So far I have only been using the straight and pure-direct modes for music. There is a big difference in sound quality in pure direct and straight mode, the moment i press that small thing that lights up the blue led and turns off all lights, the sound quality improves by leaps and bounds.... no kidding.... its like a magic button... I want to add the subwoofer functionality, but what I am trying to figure out is if I have to sacrifice the pure direct for that. I also watch a lot of movies, and need the lfe for that, and thats where lies the confusion. Dont want to sacrifice the quality, and dont want to keep mucking around with the cables.. Looks like an impossible goal to achieve so far.
 
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