Suggestions for solid core cable

[amit11]

I am going thru a confused stage. Just five days back i had purchased chord silverscreen speaker cable which is still gettimg burn in and yesterday i purchased solid core cable which is local brand / no brand.

Both wires are connected to the same speakers and amp. I am kind of doing AB comparison on wires by toggling the AB switch on amp.

There are obvious differences in the sound and both have their goods and bads. I am just wondering the quality of solid core cables copper might be a very normal line and hence little lack in clarity and slight more mid bass. If same solid core cable is having better copper it might sound better. I am comparing it to the expensive silver screen.

I think i need to wait more time and burn in for both cables before concluding anything.

@all4music

I dont know what is cat6 cable. Just searched on net and seems to ethernet cable having solid core strands.

Do we need to extract the individual strand and use it?

Edit: Our posts crossed the same time...

 

[jls001]

OK, so I went and bought 18 AWG solid core transformer wire. Cut 4 lengths of 2.1m, scrapped off the enamel coating at the ends and inserted into the amp and speaker binding posts. It sounds very good.

Differences from existing speaker cables are:

1) Bass quantity is more with transformer wire. But it sounds a bit bloated and doesn't (yet?) have good definition and texture.

2) The transformer wire is less resolving

3) The transformer wire's highs are on the rougher side.

4) It is also a bit forward sounding compared to existing cables, which could mean its midrange is slightly bumped up.

All the above observations sound to me like the symptoms of fresh cables, so it ought to improve with more hours. It's a dirt cheap experiment (Rs 10 per meter so total cost is just Rs 42). I will run these wires for now and see how they sound after say a couple of weeks. The wire is some brand called Nemani Wires from MP.

 

[bornfi]

OK, so I went and bought 18 AWG solid core transformer wire. Cut 4 lengths of 2.1m, scrapped off the enamel coating at the ends and inserted into the amp and speaker binding posts. It sounds very good.

Differences from existing speaker cables are:

1) Bass quantity is more with transformer wire. But it sounds a bit bloated and doesn't (yet?) have good definition and texture.

2) The transformer wire is less resolving

3) The transformer wire's highs are on the rougher side.

4) It is also a bit forward sounding compared to existing cables, which could mean its midrange is slightly bumped up.

All the above observations sound to me like the symptoms of fresh cables, so it ought to improve with more hours. It's a dirt cheap experiment (Rs 10 per meter so total cost is just Rs 42). I will run these wires for now and see how they sound after say a couple of weeks. The wire is some brand called Nemani Wires from MP.

And I can assure you that it will be tough to go back to stranded. To me, solid core sounds cleanest. The stranded, to me, sounds sparkling in the beginning and then i realize that it muddies something somewhere in the spectrum.

I am using an 4awg solid copper and am happy. In fact i have infected some of my friends too.

 

[all4music]

@bornfi are you sure 4AWG solid copper!! as speaker wires!! don't you think it's an overkill!!?

 

[bornfi]

@bornfi are you sure 4AWG solid copper!! as speaker wires!! don't you think it's an overkill!!?

Yes, I started from 12, stepped down by 2 and 4 is what I liked the most. Not sure if this phenomenon is amp dependent?

 

[Fantastic]

I used a Mission 780 for this example. It's an 8 ohm 'rated' speaker.
The impedance plot shows it's real impedance with frequency . Far from 'flat'. A minimum of about 5 ohms at 200Hz.
But a 4 ohm rated speaker is usually much worse and affected even more with the dc resistance of the speaker wire. Here the effect on the frequency response at the speaker terminal is with a 5 meter run of 24 swg single core wire.
The top curve ( just above -8dBV ) is the 'flat response' without any cable resistance ( less than 0.01 ohms). The wavy curve is with a 0.7 ohm dc resistance of the 24swg wire ( 5 meters.....effectively 10 meters).
This will certainly sound different from the curve above it ! Bass will sound as if you equalised some frequencies ( boosted) and mids might be more pronounced.
The maximum variation is only about 1db , but it will be audible as a difference.

 

[amit11]

@Fantastic

If we measure the curve for a stranded wire, would it be flatter as compared to single core?

 

[Fantastic]

@Fantastic

If we measure the curve for a stranded wire, would it be flatter as compared to single core?

If you mean the stranded core ( using non enameled/insulated or tin plated wires) having the same cross section as a single core , they should have differences though I'm not sure myself about the amount of difference !
This is really hard to test. We would probably not get an identical copper purity for a single core wire and it's exact multistrand equivalent from the same company.
I don't have something that can give a valid result. However I will try to get a single core equivalent of a stranded speaker wire which I have. I never thought of doing a comparative test. I'll do that and post the result sometime. If possible I'll post the "difference" in response between the two cables rather than the actual response. ( Basically, response of solid core-response of stranded core). Ideally no difference between the cables should produce a flat line !

 

[amit11]

Sorry...i think i mistakenly mentioned as single core... I was trying to say SOLID core.

So rephrasing... Comparison between stranded wire vs SOLID core wire.

 

[Fantastic]

Comparison between stranded wire vs SOLID core wire.

You may be a bit confused. A single core wire IS a solid core wire ! The wire isn't hollow and so it's solid all the way through. You can call it single core or solid core.
I'm assuming you mean comparison between a solid core ( single core) wire with the same copper cross sectional area as a multi-stranded wire. So DC resistance will be the same for both.

 

[amit11]

Yes, same as what you mentioned.

 

[jls001]

While we're at it (solid core), may I suggest you try a very thin transformer wire as interconnect. I made a 1m pair using 40 SWG transformer wire. So source to preamp is 40 SWG solid core, preamp to power amp is a balanced cable used as unbalanced to balanced cable, and amp to speakers are 18 SWG solid core transformer wires.

I won't say how it sounds

 

[amit11]

Ya.. Can try..hoping the transformer wire is available at a local electrician shop

 

[jls001]

Here's how my prototype 40 SWG interconnect looks:

Thinner than a hair, and as unruly and difficult to handle but sounding very good. Open, nice tight bass, as resolving as any cable I have tried, but most most of all a very beautiful tonality.

What it needs is some means to permanently separate the two wires by about 3/4", while also giving it some protection for mechanical strength without introducing unnecessary dielectric.

PS: I think this wire will work very well as tonearm internal wire. Must try when I have energy.

 

[prem]

Hi jls001

Use cotton sleeves. That's what I did when I used 32 awg as ic

 

[jls001]

I will try another one with a slightly thicker wire (34 SWG) and will encase it in cotton tubing.

Edit:
Completed making a 1m pair using 34 SWG transformer wire. Encased it in cotton tubing (a.k.a. gol nada a.k.a. pyjama drawstring ), lightly twisted the pair for the sake of manageability. I think it sounds even better than the 40 SWG version. Initially for the first few tracks there was a slight bass bloat. After some more tracks the bass firmed up. It's nice and tight, and weight and quantity are aplenty. The treble is still a little strident, but I'm guessing it will calm down with some more hours. Definitely worth the effort, money (you mainly spend on the four RCA plugs) and time spent. Highly recommended for others to try.

Picture showing the new pair connected to analog output of sound card:

My chain is: Computer running Win Server 2012R2 with foobar2000 or JRiver players --> 34 SWG IC --> DCB1 buffer --> Soundfoundation Z1 balanced cable configured as unbal-to-bal --> power amp --> 28 SWG transformer wire used as speaker cable --> Speakers.

Correction: speaker wires are 18 SWG, not 28.

 

[srisaikat]

Till now I have switched few cables. As speaker cable at present I settled with Anti Cable Level 3 wires which are solid cables (made of two 12 gauge per connection) - 2 Channel Speaker Wires, very happy with it after trying different brand or generic combinations, even tried normal electrical cable and also the cat 5.

As RCA cable for the dcb1 I found the Straight Wire Level 2 Symphony II IC (which Schiit sell as PYST RCA) most perfect sounding (among cables I tested till now) and this cable is most thin among the tested ones.

So I guess single solid cable for speaker and thin wire as RCA cable might be worthy to try on other system also.

 

[amit11]

(a.k.a. gol nada a.k.a. pyjama drawstring ), lightly twisted the pair for the sake of manageability.

To understand, the wires need to be twisted around / spiralled around the outer periphery of the 'gol nada', right? It was not very visible from the photo hence thought to ask. Thanks.

 

[jls001]

To understand, the wires need to be twisted around / spiralled around the outer periphery of the 'gol nada', right? It was not very visible from the photo hence thought to ask. Thanks.

The cotton is a tube. Insert it into the center hole.

 

[jls001]

Tested how the 34 gauge IC and the 18 gauge speaker wires behaved in another setup (Rikhav's) this evening. First we replaced his regular IC between DAC and buffer with the 34 gauge IC. There was a drastic drop in bass quantity. The highs also sounded quite a bit tamed compared to his earlier sound. But the mids gained a new, likeable texture and tonality.

Next up we moved the 34 gauge IC between buffer and amp. DAC to buffer now has the original IC. In this location, it gained bass weight, and the highs became slightly more strident, but the mids no longer had the nice texture.

So the 34 gauge IC was replaced with the original IC, and his speaker cables were swapped with the 18 gauge solid core transformer wire. With this, the sound was really good to both our ears. With the original speaker cables the mids and highs could be termed as strident. The shouty and at times strident highs calmed down with the transformer wires. The hard edge of the tone in the all-important mid range also mellowed, becoming quite likeable. None of the bass weight or texture was lost with the solid cores. It also helped widen the soundstage a bit, and image placement and specificity improved too.

So solid cores may or may not work in your favour depending on your setup. But whatever unwanted ills it may bring along, one malady it can't be accused of is bad tonality (at least to my ears). I have always liked the tone of solid cores and insisted on using them as internal wirings on my electronic builds despite the fact that they can be a pain to work with. They seem to transfer that tonal sweetness even when used elsewhere.