surround queries

Audiolab 6000N Play

pradski

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Hello everybody,

I have WF 9.6, , Polk 650 SW.

I have ordered WF 9CM for centre and WF DFS 8 for surrounds.

1. What is the maximum height you can place bipolar speakers ?

2. Is it good to use bipolars as rear (dealer suggested)

If not, which is better ?. What is the maximum height I can use ?

how good are these in your experience ?

I am running with Yam 450. Getting my old Pioneer vsx 436 repaired with a crossover made locally to use as stereo.

Then I will be looking for an AVR probably denon 2309, any suggestions regarding these.

Thanks in advance
 
Last edited:

sisharma80

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Refer to following link regarding position of bipolars:

Position height for bipolar speakers? - AVForums.com

Per Wharfedale manual - The 9.DFS speakers should ideally be sited 600mm-1.5metres above the listening position and 2.5-3.5 metres apart, central to the listener and behind the listening position. If the listening position is some distance from a rear wall, the speakers may be mounted on the opposite side walls but always behind the listening position.

I've heard 9.DFS ... quite good as surround speakers ... I am sure you won't regret buying them.

Also refer to the following link to know a bit about bipolars:

http://stereos.about.com/od/glossaryoftermsb/g/bipolar.htm

-Siddarth
 
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ajinkya

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A query-
What if my apartment has no more space and has the listening couch backed up against the wall? In other words, there is no space between the wall and the couch. In that case, does it still make sense having bipolars on that wall? Or will stereo speakers be a better surround option? I am looking at it from both music and movies soundfield.
 

sisharma80

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A query-
What if my apartment has no more space and has the listening couch backed up against the wall? In other words, there is no space between the wall and the couch. In that case, does it still make sense having bipolars on that wall? Or will stereo speakers be a better surround option? I am looking at it from both music and movies soundfield.

Bipolars make sense when they are behind the listening position.

Following are the suggested setups for bipolars in a HT - Courtesy Wharfedale

setup.jpg


If the sitting-position/couch is up against the wall then it doesn't make much sense to buy bipolars. Direct radiating surround speakers would do fine in this case.

setup2.jpg


-Siddarth
 

pradski

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Thanks sisharma,

The height is from the ground 1.5 metres. am I right ?

Since it is bipolar it faces both ways, why can't we keep in the centre of the wall.

i mean if my listening position is midway between front and back wall,

that midway on either side is that ok. or is still has to go back. The rears will be coming for back.

Thank you
 

mridulgoel

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Hello everybody,

I have WF 9.6, , Polk 650 SW.

I have ordered WF 9CM for centre and WF DFS 8 for surrounds.

1. What is the maximum height you can place bipolar speakers ?

2. Is it good to use bipolars as rear (dealer suggested)

If not, which is better ?. What is the maximum height I can use ?

how good are these in your experience ?

I am running with Yam 450. Getting my old Pioneer vsx 436 repaired with a crossover made locally to use as stereo.

Then I will be looking for an AVR probably denon 2309, any suggestions regarding these.

Thanks in advance


Hey Buddy

Hws Ya...???
Hope you doing well with your system...

Anyways, the suggestion would be not to go in for the Bi-Polars, for the rear system...

The art work by Mr.Sharma is fine..
But, in actual if you give it a practical look, then there will be more of sound reflections, if you will use Bi-Polar as rear surrounds...

Bi-Polars, are damn good when used in for surrounds, in a 7.1 setup, on side walls, as the throw and the effects are nice, and moreover, it helps in places where there are seating in more than one rows...

So, as you said, you are gonna go in for Denon-2309 soon, consider, the Bi-Polars, when you are buying speakers, to upgrade to 7.1, but as in for Rear Surrounds, better go in for Diamond 9.2..
You will be more satisfied with it...

Dear Sharma..

Dont, mind anything on the comments...
The pics shown are true, but in case of pic 1, the bounce backs are more...

So, when you are watching movies, with great sound effects, you will not get the proper sound..means, the speakers will deliver the sound for the action in video, but after few microseconds, you will again, hear those sounds, as reflections, which will mix, with the current sound..

You will not notice these sounds, while watching romantic, or dramas or anything...
But when you are watching and listening, to something like a gun fire, or a race car, or something like that, at that point, you will feel a bounce back...
 

sisharma80

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Hey Buddy

Hws Ya...???
Hope you doing well with your system...

Anyways, the suggestion would be not to go in for the Bi-Polars, for the rear system...

The art work by Mr.Sharma is fine..
But, in actual if you give it a practical look, then there will be more of sound reflections, if you will use Bi-Polar as rear surrounds...

Bi-Polars, are damn good when used in for surrounds, in a 7.1 setup, on side walls, as the throw and the effects are nice, and moreover, it helps in places where there are seating in more than one rows...

So, as you said, you are gonna go in for Denon-2309 soon, consider, the Bi-Polars, when you are buying speakers, to upgrade to 7.1, but as in for Rear Surrounds, better go in for Diamond 9.2..
You will be more satisfied with it...

Dear Sharma..

Dont, mind anything on the comments...
The pics shown are true, but in case of pic 1, the bounce backs are more...

So, when you are watching movies, with great sound effects, you will not get the proper sound..means, the speakers will deliver the sound for the action in video, but after few microseconds, you will again, hear those sounds, as reflections, which will mix, with the current sound..

You will not notice these sounds, while watching romantic, or dramas or anything...
But when you are watching and listening, to something like a gun fire, or a race car, or something like that, at that point, you will feel a bounce back...

Why would I mind anything friend?

I hope Wharfedale guys don't mind you :D ... I just copied and pasted the stuff from their manual :)

The thing you said abt pic 1 sounds correct to me ... that makes sense actually.
But then again the delay would be too small to notice ... don't you agree?

For surround effects, I find bipolars better than direct radiating speakers. That's my opinion only. I have friends who just don't like bipolars at all. So I guess its just a matter of personal choice.

Pradski, just give the bipolars a try even if you are building up a 5.1 home theatre. Compare them with any direct radiating speakers, as Mridul suggested, and decide yourself.

-Siddarth

PS: Diamond 9.2 are very good speakers as well
 

mridulgoel

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Why would I mind anything friend?

I hope Wharfedale guys don't mind you :D ... I just copied and pasted the stuff from their manual :)

The thing you said abt pic 1 sounds correct to me ... that makes sense actually.
But then again the delay would be too small to notice ... don't you agree?

For surround effects, I find bipolars better than direct radiating speakers. That's my opinion only. I have friends who just don't like bipolars at all. So I guess its just a matter of personal choice.

Pradski, just give the bipolars a try even if you are building up a 5.1 home theatre. Compare them with any direct radiating speakers, as Mridul suggested, and decide yourself.

-Siddarth

PS: Diamond 9.2 are very good speakers as well

Siddharth

Wharfedale guys will not say anything...
They have given choice as shown..

So its, as you said individual choice to select...

Now, regarding the reflection time..
Buddy, agree it will be in Milliseconds, and sure it will not matter, normally, but yes it do interupts, and is sensible, in action, thrillers, and sports videos...

So thats what i am concentrating on...

So, yes 9.2 for rears and DFS for side surrounds...
 

bazee

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hi all

I dont want to be spoilsport,pradski.

I found WF 9CS/CM and DFS incapable of providing immersive sound.

If possible, i would invest more in buying the center and rears of different brand. Though most audio people advise at least the front two and center be of same brand.

What has been suggested of 9.2 for rears, I was suggested the same. And latter to shift 9.2 for stereo in other room and upgrade to better rears.
the DFS are of course bestt suited for 7.1 config as surrounds. Or as someone advised to me, go for DFS for rear now and later shift them to 7.1 surrounds ! Either way we dont loose.
Also, you had said 8.DFS which is differend from 9.DFS. the 9 series one is lighter in wt but with more power but some people still consider 8.DFS as the DFS.

I dont know if we should buy a center of B&W or Dali with front two spks being from WF.

regards
 
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smsrini

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The interesting question asked was what would perform better if your sofa was against the rear wall ? bipolars or forward facing speakers ? assuming there is no provision to put forward throwing speakers on side walls as in one of the pictures above.

The Diamond 9 DFS are angled to the side and below, which I felt would still be better than a forward throwing speaker as rear surrounds, when the sofa is backed to the wall. The sound is spread across the listening area rather than being in one direction only.

Any comments ?
 

ajinkya

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Smsrini,

That was my thought as well, which is why I posed the question. I feel the sound waves from the directly radiating speaker may overshoot the listener's head and concentrate in an area in front of him/her, negating the surround effect. And yes, my house (and many other houses, I suspect) does not have conveniently placed sidewalls as shown in the canonical picture.

One can always place the rear speakers far above the listener's head and angled at an acute angle downwards, but such an arrangement may not be practical in many houses. or the sound may reflect off the walls because of the speaker angling. That's why I wondered whether all these limitations for this specific case (sofa against a wall) can be ameliorated by a diffuse soundfield as given by bipolars. Of course, I realise that this sound may not be as welcome for music (instrument placement will be blurred) but may be more than adequate for movie listening.

As said by smsrini, more views/suggestions/counterviews are welcome.
 

pradski

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hi folks,

if you use bookshelves as rears what do you assign them as in AVR large or small. I got wf 9.2 as rear.

At the same time wf cm as centre it is a quite big one for a centre channel that also should go as small right.

thanks
 

bazee

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hi

whenever you assign a speaker as small, it means the speaker is not capable of handling low frequencies and they are routed to the sub-woofer.
IF you assign a speaker as large ex- a floor standing speaker, it handles some of the low frequencies as well.

regards
 
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