The Cleopatra - A new Speaker by First Note - Proudly made in INDIA

[keith_correa]

Just to wade in with some 'factual info' which I got vide my email communication with Mr Reddy. It's not correct the speakers cost 2L. They can be ordered for 2.5L a pair all inclusive.

Maybe they jacked up the price [+50K in the article] after seeing the attention it is getting here. And, I found it hilarious that "local delivery is included in the price"

Did anyone catch that that the article says that the speaker covers 9 octaves. Starting from what frequency? Up or down? Anyone know?

 

[srinisundar]

Did anyone catch that that the article says that the speaker covers 9 octaves. Starting from what frequency? Up or down? Anyone know?

Nothing impress me above than anything written over here for the past 5 or 6 pages.....

 

[Amitkg]

Jai1611 put forward everything that I would have said in post#50 and did it perfectly.

I have nothing against him / someone not liking a speaker, he may or may not like something, that is perfectly alright. There was an overtly condescending tone in the post which was underpinned by the comparison to Sonodyne, I see it that way. Sonodyne may or may not make great/average/pedestrian speakers, but without hearing the speaker in question any or every comparison and criticism is unfair.
There is also an objection to the 200K price, of course it is expensive (if assuming it is the price), again the point is how do we know it is the price? Is there any statement from the designer/producer that will be the price? What is the source of this information? Again 'other forum members'? A lot of hearsay I would say.
A lot goes on in assumption, including the sweeping statement that the speaker in question performs 'miserably'! Unfair and insensitive to the very core.

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OMG! Have you read the very first post and the attachment? please go through it before joining brouhaha-team!!! Price is clearly mentioned there.

 

[moktan]

Maybe they jacked up the price [+50K in the article] after seeing the attention it is getting here. And, I found it hilarious that "local delivery is included in the price"

Actually, I was informed of the price BEFORE this report was posted here.

 

[Amitkg]

Thanks !!! I am not alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAyKJAtDNCw

Even 'whathifi.com' is not alone! [emoji15]

 

[jai1611]

Got a chance to hear the speakers. A few points:
- First these did not "fail miserably in all respects" . I enjoyed listening to them
- The design is still in the prototype stage and there are a few tweaks yet to be made. The final price will depend on a few design choices (aesthetic ones)
- As with all single drivers I have experience with, these too are sensitive to speaker positioning and listening position. Sridhar was kind enough to move the speakers about a bit. Initially they were a couple of feet from the wall. Later they were pulled a third of the way into the room. I much preferred the second position. I also preferred the sound with the driver a bit above ear height - which implied sitting on the floor and listening.
- I heard them in an unfamiliar system - LM Audio push-pull amp, Ayon CD07 CDP. I suspect that these can do better. I would like to hear them with a Leben or a good single ended amp and with a better source
- What I liked: resolution, soundstage (after tweaking the positioning), tone; what I didn't: bass impact (extension was good but impact was weak). These do very well with jazz and vocal but are not really meant for hard rock. One trait which struck me was the balance of excellent resolution without making ordinary recordings sound bad. That is tough to achieve with any speaker irrespective of price / design
- I have heard the Fostex based Lyrita Harmony, owned the Fostex based Audire IO2, heard the Rethm Trishna, owned the older Lowther based Rethms. I would rank these above the Fostex based designs (more linear, less shouty) but below the Rethms. The Rethms are a mature design and it shows in performance (particularly soundstage, bass) . None of these speakers really compare to conventional designs (eg. the better Dynaudio or ATCs) if one's staple music diet is hard rock
- As per my discussion with Sridhar, the brief for these speakers was something suitable for low powered tube amps. They are not mainstream speakers. I suspect the production version will improve the speakers a bit based on listener feedback

If I were in the market for a tube-appropriate speaker today, this would be on the shortlist. However, for me these are not as paradigm changing as my first taste of the Rethms was. I suspect that, at least for my preferences and given my history with the brand, I would prefer the room-appropriate Rethms over these if looking to buy

 

[saheb11123]

These were designsed to be a near perfect match of the leben amps.
They were first setup and auditioned with leben. They sounded very good. Yes the low is a bit weak but you expect that from a single driver setup.

 

[jai1611]

Yes the low is a bit weak but you expect that from a single driver setup.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. I suspect the same driver in a horn loaded design could produce quite a bit more bass. Its more the sealed cabinet thats responsible for the bass being weak I think. It comes down to what set of compromises the designer chooses.

 

[srinisundar]

Got a chance to hear the speakers. A few points:
- First these did not "fail miserably in all respects" . I enjoyed listening to them

I also preferred the sound with the driver a bit above ear height - which implied sitting on the floor and listening.

Yes,,it is quite sure not failed miserably in all aspects except i felt bass is the only issue.

Infact i listen to it by standing in the centre above sweet position and happy with all aspects except bass.. Just curious for an 2L+ speaker anybody( are you) willing to sacrifice the seat and sit on the ground..that is also for an floor-stander.....aaah... Just for fun on your quote since it is your preference..Nothing serious..

 

[jai1611]

Just curious for an 2L+ speaker anybody( are you) willing to sacrifice the seat and sit on the ground..that is also for an floor-stander.....aaah... Just for fun on your quote since it is your preference..Nothing serious..

The sit on the ground situation was only due to the seating options in the room (sofa and upright chair) :indifferent14:. My usual listening chair is anyway quite low and would have been fine . I'm sure someone spending that kind of money on a speaker can get a suitable listening chair!

 

[saheb11123]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. I suspect the same driver in a horn loaded design could produce quite a bit more bass. Its more the sealed cabinet thats responsible for the bass being weak I think. It comes down to what set of compromises the designer chooses.

Jai1611 yes maybe I agree but this is design that you are hearing and cleopatra has to live with it.
But it sure made a lot of commotion though, just like a mms scandal before a yet to release film.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Somehow bumped on this old thread and wanted to check some points,

- Did magma get these speakers to Mumbai for a listen and did the hfv mumbai chapter get a chance to listen them.
- Are these sealed enclosures or a TL. Some images from FM Bhagwan indicate them to be a ML-TL. Not sure which model is sold in India though.
- Are there any published measurements for this speaker? Read a lot of subjective critical view and otherwise on the speakers. Am eager to know more as i too am in the final stage of design of my Fostex FR TL speakers.

 

[Amitkg]

Glad to see that the Cleopatra (the thread) has risen like Phoenix.
I am curious (presumably, there are many like me), want to know how many pairs of this highly acclaimed speaker have been sold till date. Is it available in India? or elsewhere?

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

 

[tuff]

The website First Note Labs does not have any info either. would love to see some progress on them.

 

[Hari Iyer]

The website First Note Labs does not have any info either. would love to see some progress on them.

Seem to be a bit wierd why its taking so long for the website to come up with details about the product. This gives me a wierd feeling that the product must have been withdrawn may be for some major tweaking and fine tuning though its quite normal to tweak a product for improved performance. Atleast the company does not want to sell a flawed product to its customers and are ready to take a hit on the sales. Again i am only guessing unless some FM throw more light on the same.
I am sure once they are finished with the fine tuning, it should be back with a bang hopefully.

 

[Amitkg]

Just a single-page website!!!
It's indeed weird.

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

 

[Hari Iyer]

Wierd. Yes indeed.

Also there is no update from mumbai hfv chapter FMs about any listen session of this speaker gives me an indication all is not well. Hope i am wrong.

 

[bhagwan]

I do not have any confirmed news - but from what ever little I know, the 'local' person behind this project in Bangalore has moved to USA & therefore there is no 'driving' force left behind this.
I think FM Magma might be in a position to shed some more light on what the current status is...

 

[magma]

the following is my understanding of how things stand
i may be wrong


1. FnL's speaker business is OEM design and manufacturing services, not distribution-led like electronics. Cleopatra was an OEM project, not intended as an end-product of FnL. It was commissioned by ARN systems to be offered alongside some of the electronic products they sold, but didn't have a speaker partner for.

2. The Cleopatra unit in Bangalore was an Alpha prototype, based on initial brief of needing to partner with very low to low power tube amps (under 15W) for which no speaker was available at the time. The enclosure design and speaker measurements are proprietary and owned by the brand that commissioned the project, and cannot be released at this point in time.

3. Community feedback was sought for listening impressions and pairing with various kinds of music and equipment, and listening tastes. The prototyping process was to continue afterwards, but the project head moved abroad in another capacity, so the project is on hold.


As to the website, it says the website is under construction. It can't have more than an under-construction page, the text is written in English. they are having some funding and manufacturing issues (mostly due to quality of finish available in India), but they have already released and sold 4 very high end custom built class A designs ( one of which i own ) and i suspect they will be releasing more products in Q2, 2017.

i know for a fact that the only thing currently impeding their electronics projects is the fit and finish of cabinets made in INDIA

i do know they have a High end 50 rms pure class A power amplifier in their portfolio
and the following are in the pipeline since i have seen the boards and designs

a 150 rms class AB power amp
a 50W power amp
a 50w integrated

on the speaker front
they did do a small run of a small fullrange bookshelf ( again fit and finish of the cabinet is impeding their progress)
Soundwise the speaker sounds spectacular

they also were doing some oem work for "Spatial"

Sangram ( the design head of FNL ) currently also has a 3 way floorstander in the works
Albeit its for personal consumption and/or custom order only
i know because i helped import the first lot of drivers for the build

 

[Hari Iyer]

@magma
So what's the current situation. Will they continue with the Cleopatra? Will FMs in Mumbai get to listen one demo? Curious to know the outcome.

Thanks,